49cc generator
- Thread starter karma1968
- Start date
abikerider
New Member
Re: Respuesta: Re: 49cc generator
Hi Karma,
I chose this route because it seems like it'll be a cheaper and more reliable product. The 3 watt led will probably put out the equivalent of 10-15 watt halogen. I use a battery powered 15 watt light for offroad night riding on my non-motorized mountain bike and I think that amount of light would be adequate for the motorized bike. Two 3 watt led's would be very good.
I like your idea of using the core from a 2 stroke magneto. It's much cheaper than trying to use a 4 stroke magneto core. I would trim it down so that it conforms to the rounded shape of the flywheel for a better magnetic path. I am trying a steel core that I made from bar stock. I figure it will be efficient enough and I'll be able to make it to the exact dimensions that I want. On top of that it becomes less efficient as engine speed increases so the voltage output will be steadier. It's interesting how you mounted yours to the front of the engine while mine is in the rear. I gives me the idea of using two of these to double the output if needed. Here's some pictures of my prototype.
i was thinking on going the same rout. if the external gen doesn't work out. 3watt high power led's work well with 3volts ac and up. put out just as much light as a 35watt halogen. also adding a capacitor in line with the coil helps keep the lights from flickering at low rpm.
Hi Karma,
I chose this route because it seems like it'll be a cheaper and more reliable product. The 3 watt led will probably put out the equivalent of 10-15 watt halogen. I use a battery powered 15 watt light for offroad night riding on my non-motorized mountain bike and I think that amount of light would be adequate for the motorized bike. Two 3 watt led's would be very good.
I like your idea of using the core from a 2 stroke magneto. It's much cheaper than trying to use a 4 stroke magneto core. I would trim it down so that it conforms to the rounded shape of the flywheel for a better magnetic path. I am trying a steel core that I made from bar stock. I figure it will be efficient enough and I'll be able to make it to the exact dimensions that I want. On top of that it becomes less efficient as engine speed increases so the voltage output will be steadier. It's interesting how you mounted yours to the front of the engine while mine is in the rear. I gives me the idea of using two of these to double the output if needed. Here's some pictures of my prototype.
Attachments
karma1968
New Member
Respuesta: 49cc generator
nice. i had to make it for the front. im testing 4 Stroke Shift Kit from sbp and i need the room in the back. im taking the magneto to a friends to have it cut. i need a vice. how many volts do you get at idle? i like the double coil.
YouTube - one phase 2 stroke magneto rewind 200feet of wire
nice. i had to make it for the front. im testing 4 Stroke Shift Kit from sbp and i need the room in the back. im taking the magneto to a friends to have it cut. i need a vice. how many volts do you get at idle? i like the double coil.
YouTube - one phase 2 stroke magneto rewind 200feet of wire
Last edited:
Quenton Guenther
Dealer
Hi karma1968 & abikerider,
I am using 5 coils in series lined up with the magnet path of the flywheel.
Each coil is .1 ohms for a total of .5 ohms total.
My idea is to have the flywheel magnet pass by more coils to collect more power for a longer period of time.
Hopefully this will supply enough AC to work with.
Have fun,
I am using 5 coils in series lined up with the magnet path of the flywheel.
Each coil is .1 ohms for a total of .5 ohms total.
My idea is to have the flywheel magnet pass by more coils to collect more power for a longer period of time.
Hopefully this will supply enough AC to work with.
Have fun,
abikerider
New Member
Re: Respuesta: Re: 49cc generator
Hi Karma1968,
What are the overall dimensions on the 2 stroke magneto core? I might want to experiment with one. Thanks and good luck.
Hi Karma1968,
What are the overall dimensions on the 2 stroke magneto core? I might want to experiment with one. Thanks and good luck.
abikerider
New Member
Hi Quenton,
The only problem with that seems to be finding the space and finding a way to mount it well. I'm waiting for some sample bobbins to wind the coils on neatly and then slip onto the core. I'm going to use 24 guage wire and will report back the results when finished.
its a monster lol.
karma1968
New Member
abikerider
New Member
Re: Respuesta: 49cc generator
That makes sense if you're doing the shift kit. Be careful cutting the core as it's real easy to delaminate it. I think the best way would be with a metal cutting bandsaw but that's a sizeable investment. I have experimented a little with transformer cores. The best low cost method I found is with a hacksaw with a fine blade.
My latest winding uses 350 turns of 26 AWG wire. For measuring the volts I use a fluke 77 true rms meter and I get around 2 volts AC at idle and 3.8 volts revving it. Current remains constant at 320 mA. This is just with one coil and there may be a short as I've used the wire a few times. I'm getting some plastic bobbins that will slide on to the core so that will allow me to wind the coils more tightly and not damage the insulation. I also have a new roll of 24 awg wire. I can't wait to see the results.
That makes sense if you're doing the shift kit. Be careful cutting the core as it's real easy to delaminate it. I think the best way would be with a metal cutting bandsaw but that's a sizeable investment. I have experimented a little with transformer cores. The best low cost method I found is with a hacksaw with a fine blade.
My latest winding uses 350 turns of 26 AWG wire. For measuring the volts I use a fluke 77 true rms meter and I get around 2 volts AC at idle and 3.8 volts revving it. Current remains constant at 320 mA. This is just with one coil and there may be a short as I've used the wire a few times. I'm getting some plastic bobbins that will slide on to the core so that will allow me to wind the coils more tightly and not damage the insulation. I also have a new roll of 24 awg wire. I can't wait to see the results.
Quenton Guenther
Dealer
Hi,
What is the resistance of the coils?
The parts I have been testing had an ignition coil with the smaller wire and a lot of turns [500 ohms]. During the first [primitive]test runs the ignition coil produced higher AC voltage, but very low current. Attaching a simple generator headlight & tail light reduced the AC by over 75%. When attaching the same lights on the string of coils the AC voltage level was only slightly reduced.
Have fun,
What is the resistance of the coils?
The parts I have been testing had an ignition coil with the smaller wire and a lot of turns [500 ohms]. During the first [primitive]test runs the ignition coil produced higher AC voltage, but very low current. Attaching a simple generator headlight & tail light reduced the AC by over 75%. When attaching the same lights on the string of coils the AC voltage level was only slightly reduced.
Have fun,
abikerider
New Member
Re: Respuesta: 49cc generator
I just wound my two new coils on the bobbins. 24 AWG wire, 450 turns per coil and 3 ohms per coil. Coils are wired in series so total resistance is 6 ohms. No load readings at idle are 16v at 230ma. It lights a 14.4v 120ma light bulb. The readings at idle with the bulb connected were 6v at 100ma. After running it through a full wave bridge the readings were about the same. This is only .6 watt. not enough in my opinion. I was aiming for at least 3 watts. Have either of you taken readings with a load to see how many watts you're generating? I think I'll try smaller wire next.
I've ordered a 2 stroke magneto to play with it's core. Can someone tell me the overall dimensions of these 2 stroke cores?
Here's a picture of my latest setup.
I just wound my two new coils on the bobbins. 24 AWG wire, 450 turns per coil and 3 ohms per coil. Coils are wired in series so total resistance is 6 ohms. No load readings at idle are 16v at 230ma. It lights a 14.4v 120ma light bulb. The readings at idle with the bulb connected were 6v at 100ma. After running it through a full wave bridge the readings were about the same. This is only .6 watt. not enough in my opinion. I was aiming for at least 3 watts. Have either of you taken readings with a load to see how many watts you're generating? I think I'll try smaller wire next.
I've ordered a 2 stroke magneto to play with it's core. Can someone tell me the overall dimensions of these 2 stroke cores?
Here's a picture of my latest setup.
Attachments
Quenton Guenther
Dealer
Hi,
I have an idea if someone wants to work it out so we can try to locate a little more wattage. Making the wire thinner and adding more windings will most likely raise the voltage but not the amps.
First I will pass on known facts, Ducati had 2 coils inside their magneto on the 4 stroke singles [Late 50s into the late 70s] one was ignition, the other lights, horn, etc. The coil with the smaller wire, more windings, and higher resistance was the ignition. The coil with thicker wire and less windings was for the lights, etc. The flywheel contained several magnets and they were passing both coils very often. The alternator on the new generation Whizzer contain 6 or 8 coils, the heavy wire and smaller windings power the electrics, whereas the ignition coil portion of the system uses small wire with a lot of windings.
Considering the current flywheel only has 2 magnets and a long time between "hits", might it be wiser to mount several coils along the path. Should be wired in series and should increase the voltage and amps at the same time. I don't think this should be carried too far because of cost, maybe limit to 4 to 6 coils. I also think slightly thicker wire should be considered. I am currently working on a rough version with good results so far. The total resistance is only .5 ohms across 5 coils [.1 ohm each]. I think slightly thinner wire and a few more windings might produce better results, because of the limited magnet passes. Maybe 10 to 20 ohms across 4 coils might be a good place to start.
For the moment I need to shift my attention back to Q-Matic drive production. Our orders are exceeding our projections, and we need to increase our production somewhat.
Have fun,
I have an idea if someone wants to work it out so we can try to locate a little more wattage. Making the wire thinner and adding more windings will most likely raise the voltage but not the amps.
First I will pass on known facts, Ducati had 2 coils inside their magneto on the 4 stroke singles [Late 50s into the late 70s] one was ignition, the other lights, horn, etc. The coil with the smaller wire, more windings, and higher resistance was the ignition. The coil with thicker wire and less windings was for the lights, etc. The flywheel contained several magnets and they were passing both coils very often. The alternator on the new generation Whizzer contain 6 or 8 coils, the heavy wire and smaller windings power the electrics, whereas the ignition coil portion of the system uses small wire with a lot of windings.
Considering the current flywheel only has 2 magnets and a long time between "hits", might it be wiser to mount several coils along the path. Should be wired in series and should increase the voltage and amps at the same time. I don't think this should be carried too far because of cost, maybe limit to 4 to 6 coils. I also think slightly thicker wire should be considered. I am currently working on a rough version with good results so far. The total resistance is only .5 ohms across 5 coils [.1 ohm each]. I think slightly thinner wire and a few more windings might produce better results, because of the limited magnet passes. Maybe 10 to 20 ohms across 4 coils might be a good place to start.
For the moment I need to shift my attention back to Q-Matic drive production. Our orders are exceeding our projections, and we need to increase our production somewhat.
Have fun,
karma1968
New Member
Respuesta: 49cc generator
6 volts is east to get. i get up to 12v but very low amps. enough to trickle charge a battery but nut enough to run 12v lights. i was wondering what if i was to wind a custom
step up transformer? primary 6v secondary 12v think that would work? or help
http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgu...mer&hl=en&sa=G&um=1&ei=tFlzS_qQE4HitQO7nbjtAg
6 volts is east to get. i get up to 12v but very low amps. enough to trickle charge a battery but nut enough to run 12v lights. i was wondering what if i was to wind a custom
step up transformer? primary 6v secondary 12v think that would work? or help
http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgu...mer&hl=en&sa=G&um=1&ei=tFlzS_qQE4HitQO7nbjtAg
Quenton Guenther
Dealer
If you use a step up transformer, the voltage will increase, but the current will decrease. I think Albert E. said you can't create energy, but you can change it.
I am getting fair wattage, just not enough volts. I will attach a picture of the windings on the stator assembly before I cut it up and re-mounted it around the HS flywheel. I don't have any pictures of coils and doubt I will take any until I can remount the coils on a better mounting bracket.
The wire is .040" thick on the lighting coils.
I just don't think it is possible to get 12 V with enough current unless there are more magnets or more coils. I think a set of magnets passing more coils is similar to more magnets passing less coils.
Hopefully I will be able to get back to this project soon and do a little more testing.
Have fun,
I am getting fair wattage, just not enough volts. I will attach a picture of the windings on the stator assembly before I cut it up and re-mounted it around the HS flywheel. I don't have any pictures of coils and doubt I will take any until I can remount the coils on a better mounting bracket.
The wire is .040" thick on the lighting coils.
I just don't think it is possible to get 12 V with enough current unless there are more magnets or more coils. I think a set of magnets passing more coils is similar to more magnets passing less coils.
Hopefully I will be able to get back to this project soon and do a little more testing.
Have fun,
Attachments
karma1968
New Member
Respuesta: Re: 49cc generator
i would agree after testing windings. that a three phase generator is the way to go. the one im working on drives a 12v 35watt halogen bulb no problem. just need to find a way to mount it.
cheers
i would agree after testing windings. that a three phase generator is the way to go. the one im working on drives a 12v 35watt halogen bulb no problem. just need to find a way to mount it.
cheers
Attachments
abikerider
New Member
Re: Respuesta: 49cc generator
Like Quenton said, you can't increase watts (power) with a transformer. I'm curious, have you measured the amperage while you have a light hooked up? Just want to compare results. In case you were wondering how, the first thing you should do is plug the test leads in to the proper sockets for milliamps AC or DC depending on whether you've rectified the output. Then hook the probes in series with the light, switch the meter to the proper milliamp setting, start it up and take a reading. If you've already measured the voltage while hooked up to the light, just multiply the two to get wattage. My setup put out 6 volts at 100 milliamps so 6 x .100 = .6 watts, not enough. Interestingly, when I rectified it and hooked up a big capacitor without a load it charged up to 40+ volts which is the peak voltage where 6 volts is the average voltage under load. Gotta be careful with that as it would destroy any led that was connected after the capacitor got charged up.
Also, I was wondering if you ever cut the core ends so that they fit against the flywheel magnets snugly. If so, how much of a difference did this make to your power output?
Like Quenton said, you can't increase watts (power) with a transformer. I'm curious, have you measured the amperage while you have a light hooked up? Just want to compare results. In case you were wondering how, the first thing you should do is plug the test leads in to the proper sockets for milliamps AC or DC depending on whether you've rectified the output. Then hook the probes in series with the light, switch the meter to the proper milliamp setting, start it up and take a reading. If you've already measured the voltage while hooked up to the light, just multiply the two to get wattage. My setup put out 6 volts at 100 milliamps so 6 x .100 = .6 watts, not enough. Interestingly, when I rectified it and hooked up a big capacitor without a load it charged up to 40+ volts which is the peak voltage where 6 volts is the average voltage under load. Gotta be careful with that as it would destroy any led that was connected after the capacitor got charged up.
Also, I was wondering if you ever cut the core ends so that they fit against the flywheel magnets snugly. If so, how much of a difference did this make to your power output?
abikerider
New Member
Hi Quenton, could you say how many volts and amps you were getting while connected to a load. I'm trying to see how different arrangements work using hard numbers. Also, it looks like your coil assembly originally had a ring of magnets rotating around the outside of it. Is that correct? One thing I have found is that it is important that the magnetic field has a good path to follow through the magnetic material or the field strength will be low and very little power will be generated. If it has to travel through more than 1/16" of air the field strength starts dropping rapidly. That's why the magneto gap is so critical for good spark. If you look at my alternator core you can see that the magnetic field can flow up from one side and down the other which completes the magnetic circuit and creates a strong field. I have a feeling when you cut those coils into seperate pieces you created a problem of how to have a good path for the magnetic field to follow. What you need is a curved steel or even better a laminated magnetic steel plate that is flush against the backs of the coil cores and on the outside perimeter of these coils. This would complete the magnetic circuit and create more power. The side toward the magnets also has to have a small a gap as possible.
I'm still not giving up on my design. The problem with it now is it's made of solid plain steel (which causes losses compared to laminated magnet steel) and not enough space for windings. I think with a good laminated steel core (like from the 2 stroke magneto) with space for many thick windings it might be possible to get 3-4 watts which is all I really need. Even if I get only 2 watts with one coil, if I put one in the front and one in the rear I'll get 4 watts total and that would make me happy.
In fact, I think it would make a lot of us happy. Anyway, I'm waiting for my 2 stroke magneto to arrive so I can use the core to create a new alternator that has more power. I'll update everyone with the progress. I also need to order a Q-matic before the weather warms up. I'll be contacting Mike Simpson about that.