agreed, the company that comes out with a 4stroke frame mount kit with a reliable gearbox that works and is actually available will make a killing
4 stroke bicylcle engine. way of the future?
- Thread starter paul
- Start date
In the nineties one of my 70s Yamaha 650 bikes was tested, and passed because someone at the emissions facility mistakenly classified it as a two stroke. When I compared its actual numbers to one of the other 650s, it was spewing way over the legal allowable limit. It was one of the rare occasions I kept my yap shut
So if I'm reading this correctly: Two stroke emission standards are set well below that of 4 stroke.
Is that correct?
If so, then what does passing an emission test for a two stroke prove?
Bicycle-Engines.com and FiveFlagsMotorbikes.com sell a 4 stroke, frame mount kit from Grubeeinc.com.
I started a thread on the Wizard 4 Stroke sold by five flags, but the same kit also goes by the name of "Sky Hawk II Whopper Stopper".
They're back ordered at the moment, but normally go for between $325 and $390.
We only have one first hand account of the gear box, which was positive, but no other first hand accounts of the engine or drive train have been posted yet.
Let me bring up another line of thought for those who can speak to it. Others may gain some insights from it.
The business end of Chinese production specifically.
Most of us know the Chinese have nicked alot of technologies from other counties and outright counterfitted it to sell elsewhere. Early in my Industrial Design career I can tell you of learning about security as I worked in design labs of large corporations.
But speaking to the "production orientation" of small manufacturing business....production of 2 strokes was what the Japanese started with in the early sixties when Yamaha and so many of the others brought their 2 stroke bikes here to the USA. Honda being the exception. It takes more tooling and capital to produce 4 stroke engines where the 2 storkes are "cheap & dirty" and able to ship to market with less encumberances. Quite often businesses lean toward the utmost of efficiency or "profit maximization" especially in countries such as China where the new entrepreneurs are emerging from the poverty they knew in agricultural production on the long road to industrial technology and economic prosparity. Some may sluff the Chinese off and infer that 4 strokes will come as soon as they can steal a good example from the Japanese, Germans, French, UK, etc to copy. Even Italy has one infamous town that specializes in making knock off's of fine European goods.
The Chinese are faced with trying to do what they can with what they got, and they ain't got much to operate on. In the mean while some suggest they will polute themselves to death within a few years and it will all be over once again for several hundred years. Possibly before they can tool up and get viable 4 strokes off the production line. The Chinese know the "first" world countries are acustomed to quality.
One of the books I've read about their situation was written by a fellow from the UK who grew up in China. James Kynge the author of "China Shakes The World: A Titan's Rise And Troubled Future---And Challenge For America". Any of the board members who are presently considering getting into the business of importing from China should become familiar with this book. If nothing else they will understand why the supply from there is so "sketchy". They are faced with the same "planned economy" Socialist issues in earlier times of producing what they can most easily, affordably, and profitably output. One of their great efforts is to buy American companies that had a brand name with public recognization and then "front" their products thru it to be able to charge higher prices for the same goods. The reasoning being that if it can be distributed thru channels such as WalMart with an "American" trade name
then buyers will expect to pay the higher prices opposed to some "fly by night" distributor hawking Chinese goods. I think "Coleman" who used to produce camping gear was an example cited in Kynge's book. The goods come straight from China packaged like American goods to be sold in WalMart
where they can fetch much higher prices and be purchased with credit cards.
The Chinese have every motive to do this as they can produce cheaper than any other industrialized country and if they can maximize their profit they can
extract great wealth from other countries. Also making it so they can't compete.
I think we're all fortunate just to get what we can from China now. If they enjoy sustained prosparity we may see a 4 cycle engine with dependable xmission made available.
Where some of us live in Ohio on this board we can import from China to Port Columbus now as the capital of Ohio is now an International Inland Port. Much like Pittsburg, Pa and Front Royal, Va. I'm sure there are other cities across America with this distinction now. But in Ohio, Cleveland and Toledo
are the water ports that recieve containers and motor and rail freight take it to Columbus where it can be picked up. I don't know if an importers license is required or not. Ohio Chamber of Commerce would have those answers.
Any business minded folks wish to respond ?
The business end of Chinese production specifically.
Most of us know the Chinese have nicked alot of technologies from other counties and outright counterfitted it to sell elsewhere. Early in my Industrial Design career I can tell you of learning about security as I worked in design labs of large corporations.
But speaking to the "production orientation" of small manufacturing business....production of 2 strokes was what the Japanese started with in the early sixties when Yamaha and so many of the others brought their 2 stroke bikes here to the USA. Honda being the exception. It takes more tooling and capital to produce 4 stroke engines where the 2 storkes are "cheap & dirty" and able to ship to market with less encumberances. Quite often businesses lean toward the utmost of efficiency or "profit maximization" especially in countries such as China where the new entrepreneurs are emerging from the poverty they knew in agricultural production on the long road to industrial technology and economic prosparity. Some may sluff the Chinese off and infer that 4 strokes will come as soon as they can steal a good example from the Japanese, Germans, French, UK, etc to copy. Even Italy has one infamous town that specializes in making knock off's of fine European goods.
The Chinese are faced with trying to do what they can with what they got, and they ain't got much to operate on. In the mean while some suggest they will polute themselves to death within a few years and it will all be over once again for several hundred years. Possibly before they can tool up and get viable 4 strokes off the production line. The Chinese know the "first" world countries are acustomed to quality.
One of the books I've read about their situation was written by a fellow from the UK who grew up in China. James Kynge the author of "China Shakes The World: A Titan's Rise And Troubled Future---And Challenge For America". Any of the board members who are presently considering getting into the business of importing from China should become familiar with this book. If nothing else they will understand why the supply from there is so "sketchy". They are faced with the same "planned economy" Socialist issues in earlier times of producing what they can most easily, affordably, and profitably output. One of their great efforts is to buy American companies that had a brand name with public recognization and then "front" their products thru it to be able to charge higher prices for the same goods. The reasoning being that if it can be distributed thru channels such as WalMart with an "American" trade name
then buyers will expect to pay the higher prices opposed to some "fly by night" distributor hawking Chinese goods. I think "Coleman" who used to produce camping gear was an example cited in Kynge's book. The goods come straight from China packaged like American goods to be sold in WalMart
where they can fetch much higher prices and be purchased with credit cards.
The Chinese have every motive to do this as they can produce cheaper than any other industrialized country and if they can maximize their profit they can
extract great wealth from other countries. Also making it so they can't compete.
I think we're all fortunate just to get what we can from China now. If they enjoy sustained prosparity we may see a 4 cycle engine with dependable xmission made available.
Where some of us live in Ohio on this board we can import from China to Port Columbus now as the capital of Ohio is now an International Inland Port. Much like Pittsburg, Pa and Front Royal, Va. I'm sure there are other cities across America with this distinction now. But in Ohio, Cleveland and Toledo
are the water ports that recieve containers and motor and rail freight take it to Columbus where it can be picked up. I don't know if an importers license is required or not. Ohio Chamber of Commerce would have those answers.
Any business minded folks wish to respond ?
i'm not particularly business-minded, but i'll respond by saying: wow, eDJ! that is very interesting!
now here is what i don't understand: building little internal combustion engines is very old technology; why can't some outfit right here in the good old Estados Unidos tool up and manufacture, say, a nice little 4-stroke in response to a trend like motored bicycling? what are the hurdles that keep something like that from happening?
Agreed with Pablo. I think manufacturing your own motor is a pretty big hurdle. Now the trick would be finding a suitable motor that's already in production for something else, get that for cheap and assemble it into a kit.
4 Stroke - If you look at the Happy Time engine it would not be that hard to convert it to 4 smoke. There is a technology used by one of the manufactures from Japan. It is a four stroke that you mix oil in the fuel. We have some weed whackers that have the engines. It is obviously copy protected. All they did was connect the intake runner to the crankcase, so that all the fuel goes through the bottom of the engine. The advantage is that as the piston is in the down stroke it is pushing the fuel in the intake valve, so you get a type of supercharging. There is no wasted fuel as the ports are not all open at the same time, so it runs clean. So to convert our engine the cylinder would look normal but have no exhaust port and no transfer ports. The head would have the normal 2 valves with the intake connected to the crankcase, the rest of the engine would be the same. I have thought about sleeving one of these engines and make up a head with OHV driven by a small tooth belt. Have fun, Dave