Yeah I think for a standard made bicycle I'll stick to 4 horses or less. I'll save the 212 for a nice Sportsman Flyer frame or a Felt. I don't blame Micargi for their design. It's still plenty sturdy in other places like the dropouts and I like how they reinforced the bottom bracket. At least now I'll be able to lug it in and out of my truck bed without throwing my back out, haha.
Micargi Seattle Hybrid
- Thread starter Forbidden Tuna
- Start date
I mentioned other frames and since I posted an earlier photo of my stretch Grubee hybrid I though a disclaimer in order. The frame on my 7 year old Grubee is aluminum. It's a very early frame and has been terrific . That said I bought a another supposedly "real Grubee" frame a couple of years ago, for a third of what I paid for the first one and it was a bad joke. The world of knock offs can be ugly.
Buyer beware.
Rick C.
Buyer beware.
Rick C.
I think I just had a breakthrough.
I totally forgot I had a Whizzer Style belt sheave that attaches via the spokes. I'm going to see if I can salvage this project or not.
I totally forgot I had a Whizzer Style belt sheave that attaches via the spokes. I'm going to see if I can salvage this project or not.
The sheave is definitely a better motor drive option than using the disc rotor bolt on for a sprocket connection. Perhaps the frame is much more robust than you suspect as well & other problems which may or may not rear up along the way can be solved. As I stated earlier I like the look of this frame & the space it has to mount the 212 & CVT. I wish you good fortune and success on this project.
Rick C.
Rick C.
If you are going to use 212 the belts will slip, best would be to mount a 24" bike rim with tabs like Mr. B did, and i have done also. Mr. B tried a leather and ended up using a serpentine belt, 12 is just to much power for the Whizzer pulley..........Curt
motorbicycling.com
Excalibur ‘09
Being honest is being kind. I am with you Mr.B's build is my all time faverate. Let us watch and learn as you go. LOVE the home brew bike just like your Harry awesome..........Curt
motorbicycling.com
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I'd like to be able to do that but the rim on the ebike is alloy and I don't have implements for welding that together.
I might try to find a way to attach it to the spokes like the Whizzer sheave, though.
I might step down to a 79cc if I can't get the 212 to gingerly drive a V belt.
Since I can use a more generous gear ratio I might get away with a larger drive pulley running to the sheave for a little more traction.
On my last belt drive using the Whizzer sheave I was running a 15:1 via double reduction on a 79cc HF. I found it was the drive pulley spinning more often than the sheave itself but I couldn't use a bigger pulley for risk of losing gear ratio for hill climbing.
For anybody that has used the Harbor Freight linked belt, have you noticed if there's been an improvement in grab or is it more about the convenience of custom sizing your belt?
I might try to find a way to attach it to the spokes like the Whizzer sheave, though.
I might step down to a 79cc if I can't get the 212 to gingerly drive a V belt.
Since I can use a more generous gear ratio I might get away with a larger drive pulley running to the sheave for a little more traction.
On my last belt drive using the Whizzer sheave I was running a 15:1 via double reduction on a 79cc HF. I found it was the drive pulley spinning more often than the sheave itself but I couldn't use a bigger pulley for risk of losing gear ratio for hill climbing.
For anybody that has used the Harbor Freight linked belt, have you noticed if there's been an improvement in grab or is it more about the convenience of custom sizing your belt?
Just some of the variables popping up & this is typical of one off bike builds featuring non-kit designs. No one size or type fits all and suggestions are just that and may or may not work out on a particular build though they have worked on others and might be ideal for future bikes. There are so many variables involved which eventually must be accounted for and work together to complete, even a modestly complex one off bike. Sure makes our hobby interesting to us. It's difficult for others to appreciate just how much effort is represented in a good looking motorized bike that is also dependable and safe.
Rick C.
Rick C.
If you look through his build you will see it was bolted on LOL And a bigger rim pulley would give lower ratio, therefore a need for larger driven pulley. meaning less slippage..........Curt But with 79 you should be ok with wizzer sheave.
Ah okay I must have missed that. I was on the mobile site and it's annoying to navigate with such a small screen. I'll have to review it again. I'd really like to drive it with a serpentine belt, I work at a GM dealership so I can get good rates on some and I have a few 24" rims laying around. Heck, I have a ton of 26" rims too! Since I'm working with a Fat Bike frame and using comparatively narrow Balloon tires instead of 4" ones, I have plenty of dropout space for a whole rim.
Work has been dramatically slow on this build. I'm having a heck of a time trying to find a fat bike coaster brake rear wheel. Was wanting to save the rear wheel for a different build and go for a front wheel kit like others have suggested. I also never got my battery from my friend, very disappointing. Built my own using 6 lifepo4 cells, the big 8ah 200A cells.
If anyone knows where I can snag a fat bike coaster wheel don't be afraid to drop a link. It has the super wide 170mm dropouts. What I would really like to do is find just a hub, have a beach cruiser rim laced to that fat hub and weld another 26" rim to that as my sheave. I have piles of dead steel rims where the spokes had been ripped out, a church friend owns a bicycle shop and I usually come by to pick up his graveyard parts that can't be reused conventionally.
If I can find a new rear wheel then I know i can get back into this project and buy a front wheel kit. The springer fork I bought for it has a disc brake mount so I could have a good disc in the front and a coaster for slowing down.
If anyone knows where I can snag a fat bike coaster wheel don't be afraid to drop a link. It has the super wide 170mm dropouts. What I would really like to do is find just a hub, have a beach cruiser rim laced to that fat hub and weld another 26" rim to that as my sheave. I have piles of dead steel rims where the spokes had been ripped out, a church friend owns a bicycle shop and I usually come by to pick up his graveyard parts that can't be reused conventionally.
If I can find a new rear wheel then I know i can get back into this project and buy a front wheel kit. The springer fork I bought for it has a disc brake mount so I could have a good disc in the front and a coaster for slowing down.
Just to muddy the water. Think about a rear hub motor kit. Tire, wheel (with thick gauge spokes) hub setup for rotor etc. Dual motor setup or single. This does double the price of course, but if you can find a new wide coaster it will be expensive and have whimpy spokes. I've looked into replacement wide rims for the rear on my front hub motor powered bike and decided to eventually go dual motor setup instead.
I'll keep looking for a good rim source for you. Lacing a wide wheel is to a quality coaster is your best bet for heavy duty quality.
Rick C.
I do have the rear hub motor, it's direct drive no gear reduction. Though this rear wheel wasn't made for fat bikes it just barely fit in this frame.
But my only issue is I'll need a super long axle to make it work for a regular coaster brake wheel. I kinda like the look of skinny tires in such a wide frame.
But my only issue is I'll need a super long axle to make it work for a regular coaster brake wheel. I kinda like the look of skinny tires in such a wide frame.
By the way I meant 12 cells when I said 6 for my battery, not sure why I was just going off of memory.
I have one other build almost finished that I think you guys will like. That Lifan is going into a Huffy Ultima road bike with a SBP shift kit jackshaft. I only have 6 speeds now but it has the old steering neck mounted shifter levers. I'm adding one other twist to that bike, I'm adding a charcoal gasifier as a second fuel. I vaguely remember some of the guys here on the forum having an interest in gasification but couldn't find a good way to make them fit the form factor of a bike. I'll make a separate post for that showing my build once she is finished. The Ultima is currently undergoing frame reinforcement with some gussets before I weld in the engine plate. It's my test run before I try to design a drop loop body bike for my built up 200cc Honda clone engine with charcoal gasification in mind.
I have one other build almost finished that I think you guys will like. That Lifan is going into a Huffy Ultima road bike with a SBP shift kit jackshaft. I only have 6 speeds now but it has the old steering neck mounted shifter levers. I'm adding one other twist to that bike, I'm adding a charcoal gasifier as a second fuel. I vaguely remember some of the guys here on the forum having an interest in gasification but couldn't find a good way to make them fit the form factor of a bike. I'll make a separate post for that showing my build once she is finished. The Ultima is currently undergoing frame reinforcement with some gussets before I weld in the engine plate. It's my test run before I try to design a drop loop body bike for my built up 200cc Honda clone engine with charcoal gasification in mind.
If you run a 26" wheel with 3" width tire, or narrower, Worksman wheels are the best coaster setup. Steel with 12 gauge spokes, really heavy duty. Sta-Tru are less expensive steel with 12 gauge spokes and are pretty descent too.
Electric front hub experience on my hybrid, pictured previously, running more than 40 mph creates vibration from the electric hub. I suspect that this is a factor of a 36v. Hub,750 watt rating, which was never intended to rotate this fast. Without the electric hub installed the bike is vibration free to over 50 mph running the modified CG 2 stroke...so it's the front hub causing the problem. I love the hybrid setup and seldom ride to the point of vibration, but it's still a negative with me. This vibration occurs running the gas motor only or in combination with the electric. The electric can't pull to the speeds where vibration occurs by itself even with pedal power. I need to power it down a steep grade to get to forty with the electric to see if the vibration sets in. Brushless motors are cogged magnetically and this may be causing vibes or not. I just don't know.
Rick C.
Electric front hub experience on my hybrid, pictured previously, running more than 40 mph creates vibration from the electric hub. I suspect that this is a factor of a 36v. Hub,750 watt rating, which was never intended to rotate this fast. Without the electric hub installed the bike is vibration free to over 50 mph running the modified CG 2 stroke...so it's the front hub causing the problem. I love the hybrid setup and seldom ride to the point of vibration, but it's still a negative with me. This vibration occurs running the gas motor only or in combination with the electric. The electric can't pull to the speeds where vibration occurs by itself even with pedal power. I need to power it down a steep grade to get to forty with the electric to see if the vibration sets in. Brushless motors are cogged magnetically and this may be causing vibes or not. I just don't know.
Rick C.
Is it possible to just find a longer axle to put in these wheels? I'm not sure where I would look for a 190-200mm long axle for a standard coaster wheel from Worksman. I could shim between the dropouts to the hub with washers but I would still need a long enough axle.
I think I'm going to try to shrink the dropouts a bit closer. I have a set of turnbuckles. I'll try to get it to fit a standard coaster wheel.
Scratched that. I'm just going to dedicate to it being just electric. I chased the assumed stripped threads on the disc mounting holes for the electric rear wheel. Now I've got a disc brake mount welded to the frame. This Seattle was meant to be the Single Speed.
To mount this I bought one of the cheapy adapters, flattened the bends out and checked the caliper with the wheel on. I had it in a ballpark so I vice gripped the adapter in place, removed the wheel, and welded it in.
If I didn't do this I wouldn't have had any way to mount rear brakes, except maybe make my own scrub brake.
The calipers have a lot of room for adjustment to the left or right, so I can really dial it in.
I still need to get a disc brake front wheel since I got a springer made for just that purpose. I'm thinking of trying to mount a bobbed front fender, just enough to keep from kicking dirt up on me.
To mount this I bought one of the cheapy adapters, flattened the bends out and checked the caliper with the wheel on. I had it in a ballpark so I vice gripped the adapter in place, removed the wheel, and welded it in.
If I didn't do this I wouldn't have had any way to mount rear brakes, except maybe make my own scrub brake.
The calipers have a lot of room for adjustment to the left or right, so I can really dial it in.
I still need to get a disc brake front wheel since I got a springer made for just that purpose. I'm thinking of trying to mount a bobbed front fender, just enough to keep from kicking dirt up on me.
Yep going either electric or gas is best until you know both power systems well. The 212 would have torn that rear wheel apart. If you want to go faster on the electric motor just go higher in volts. Capacity wise 8ah is not going to get you very far. You are looking for at least 30ah to have any kind of decent range. I would leave the hub in the back. Any extra weight in the front wheel with result in a noticeable difference in performance and make it easier to slide out. To really do a hybrid with a 212 and rear hub you’d need a hub designed for a much larger dropout like 8” as those usually come with mounts for the larger pitbike style disc brakes, which you could modify for a sprocket (ie just get one laser cut in 6mm plate for a 420 chain). Another benefit of a beefier hub is a beefier axle. Since your bike is a hardtail the axle will see a lot more stress, so you’d want a much bigger axle to handle the impacts plus the torque of the 212. At that point the motor would be fairly large and would benefit more from a bigger battery and strong controller, another point to go electric only. You could also go regular jackshafted 212 and run the jackshaft with a motor for a boost.
Transmission wise for 212 I recommend going belt primary and chain final, with a 10t MT clutch driving the output. You could use an adjustable pulley on the crank to set the tension. Just make sure it’s at least 4” diameter driver and about 5.5-6” driven to have enough wraparound to handle the power. Belts will slip on high torque going slow, chains will overheat on low torque going fast.
Transmission wise for 212 I recommend going belt primary and chain final, with a 10t MT clutch driving the output. You could use an adjustable pulley on the crank to set the tension. Just make sure it’s at least 4” diameter driver and about 5.5-6” driven to have enough wraparound to handle the power. Belts will slip on high torque going slow, chains will overheat on low torque going fast.
Yeah I'm glad that the test drive with the 212 didn't completely kill the brake screws.
Also after seeing your recommendation for a belt primary in other threads, that's what I'm going for with my fully fabbed Henderson body bike. I need to get a 4" pulley though after seeing this comment, I had a 3" primary with 6" secondary planned, driving 10t centrifugal. It's a Box Stock engine so I should definitely go with a bigger primary for more grip.
I know that 8ah isn't much, but it's built with the lifepo4 cells that use bus bars to connect so I can add in more when I can afford more cells or commission someone to build a better battery with more AH and use these lifepo4 cells for my solar setup.
I'm really tempted to build a sidehack for cargo on this bike. It won't be any sort of primary transportation, mostly going to town, or pleasure riding when visiting friends. A Sidehack would give me lots of room for a bigger battery. Right now for mounting I'm thinking of using a generic 50bmg ammo can with foam interior, I do have enough room to put it right in front of the seat tube and have plenty of space for my feet on the pedals but I couldn't fit a bigger battery unless I went taller. I have the cells held together with 3d printed brackets, heat shrink wrapped over that.
All in all I think it's just smarter to leave my bikes separate in terms of power-train. At least with this electric bike I can ride it on the sidewalk with no guff from authorities and be away from cars.
Also after seeing your recommendation for a belt primary in other threads, that's what I'm going for with my fully fabbed Henderson body bike. I need to get a 4" pulley though after seeing this comment, I had a 3" primary with 6" secondary planned, driving 10t centrifugal. It's a Box Stock engine so I should definitely go with a bigger primary for more grip.
I know that 8ah isn't much, but it's built with the lifepo4 cells that use bus bars to connect so I can add in more when I can afford more cells or commission someone to build a better battery with more AH and use these lifepo4 cells for my solar setup.
I'm really tempted to build a sidehack for cargo on this bike. It won't be any sort of primary transportation, mostly going to town, or pleasure riding when visiting friends. A Sidehack would give me lots of room for a bigger battery. Right now for mounting I'm thinking of using a generic 50bmg ammo can with foam interior, I do have enough room to put it right in front of the seat tube and have plenty of space for my feet on the pedals but I couldn't fit a bigger battery unless I went taller. I have the cells held together with 3d printed brackets, heat shrink wrapped over that.
All in all I think it's just smarter to leave my bikes separate in terms of power-train. At least with this electric bike I can ride it on the sidewalk with no guff from authorities and be away from cars.
Very very temporary mounting solution for the battery right now. Ammo can held to the top tube with hose clamps level temporary.
Even with just a 750w controller it can carry me uphill thanks to my headway cell battery.
Not really any good way to mount this inside the bike though, I'm leaning more and more towards a sidecar with a trunk to hold the batteries. I also need to look for a stronger controller, maybe a 1500w one. Also need to find a twist throttle, this thumb throttle will get old really fast.
Also brake cables. I'm just riding it up my driveway and back for testing. I have a 6 speed derailleur on the wheel but it's locked in on the smallest gear for alignment. When the motor starts to slow down going uphill I just start to pedal assist and it gets back up to speed and stops groaning.
That Troxel seat is extra comfy, too.
Even with just a 750w controller it can carry me uphill thanks to my headway cell battery.
Not really any good way to mount this inside the bike though, I'm leaning more and more towards a sidecar with a trunk to hold the batteries. I also need to look for a stronger controller, maybe a 1500w one. Also need to find a twist throttle, this thumb throttle will get old really fast.
Also brake cables. I'm just riding it up my driveway and back for testing. I have a 6 speed derailleur on the wheel but it's locked in on the smallest gear for alignment. When the motor starts to slow down going uphill I just start to pedal assist and it gets back up to speed and stops groaning.
That Troxel seat is extra comfy, too.