Missing Race Threads?

[Gbrebes]

Hey Notm,

I am glad that the motorized bike fad is still going good for you. I have to agree with Baird though. I don’t see big organized group rides like I used to. I don’t see a lot of motorized bikes in my neighborhood riding around. There seems to be less participants.

I vacillate between being bummed about this and actually liking it. On the one hand I would like to see more fellow motorized bike fellows and ladies for the comeraderie, and on the other hand I’m glad there are not a lot of people buzzing around in traffic and drawing attention to the sub-legal nature of our hobby.

I do miss the large group rides though, I only participated at the tail end of the big rides happening, but they were awesome. I have always enjoyed riding with you and your girlfriend.

Good times,

Gilbert

 

[Tom from Rubicon]

Gilbert,

I came into this the same way Pat Dolan did, wanting a Whizzer. A lot has changed, especially with the high end builders. Keep the spirit Gbrebes.
Tom from Rubicon

 

[MotorBicycleRacing]

I vacillate between being bummed about this and actually liking it. On the one hand I would like to see more fellow motorized bike fellows and ladies for the comeraderie, and on the other hand I’m glad there are not a lot of people buzzing around in traffic and drawing attention to the sub-legal nature of our hobby.

I do miss the large group rides though, I only participated at the tail end of the big rides happening, but they were awesome.

Good times,

Gilbert

The problem with the big rides was a lot of motorized bike fellows and ladies do
not have CA legal bikes and maybe no drivers license or no M2 or M1.
Too much hassle when riders who should know the deal ***** about it when they
get stopped.

 

[MotorBicycleRacing]

Well, we live in a trailer
at the edge of town
You never see us
'cause we don't come around.
We got twenty five rifles
just to keep
the population down.
But we need you now,
and that's why
I'm hangin' 'round.
So you be good to me
and I'll be good to you,
And in this land of conditions
I'm not above suspicion
I won't attack you,
but I won't back you.

Well, it's so good to be here,
asleep on your lawn.
Remember your guard dog?
Well, I'm afraid
that he's gone.
It was such a drag
to hear him
whining all night long.
Yes, that was me with the doves,
setting them free
near the factory
Where you built your computer,
love.
I hope you get the connection,
'cause I can't take
the rejection
I won't deceive you,
I just don't believe you.

Well, I'm a barrel of laughs,
with my carbine on
I keep 'em hoppin',
till my ammunition's gone.
But I'm still not happy,
I feel like
there's something wrong.
I got the revolution blues,
I see bloody fountains,
And ten million dune buggies
comin' down the mountains.
Well, I hear that Laurel Canyon
is full of famous stars,
But I hate them worse than lepers
and I'll kill them
in their cars.

 

[MotorBicycleRacing]

The first race in 2019 is scheduled for Fri - Sat March 30th back at Apex
but probably racing CCW just to keep all the racers on the same level.

 

[MotorBicycleRacing]

The first race in 2019 is scheduled for Fri - Sat March 30th back at Apex in Perris.

Racer # 480 updated build for 2019.

 

[Greg58]

MBR does the vented side cover help cool the clutch?

 

[bairdco]

MBR does the vented side cover help cool the clutch?

I used to do that to my covers. It seemed to help keep the clutch from heating up and slipping, and also blew out the "brake dust."

But I used pucks cut from brake lining, so slipping wasn't a big problem anyway.

Drilling a big center hole is good so you can adjust the flower nut easily.

 

[MotorBicycleRacing]

MBR does the vented side cover help cool the clutch?

Nah, mainly looks cool and racerish with a fast clutch adjustment hole.

2019 Race Schedule

Fri 29th March - Sat 30th March at Apex.

Fri 10th May - Sat 11th May at Grange aka Apple Valley Speedway.
Fri 18th Oct - Sat 19th Oct at Grange aka Apple Valley Speedway.

 

[Tony01]

I'm not surprised myself. Dealing with Neil and his lead snobby doggies on facebook like Cliffy Soares has really brought out a lot of anger in me, and honestly turned me off from the races. Same goes for reading posts from people like Joseph Tautfest who like to make assumptions on other peoples efforts (making a statement like (paraphrasing), "5 months is enough time for a dual hub ebike with moto tires to re-lace into bicycle rims if he wants to play fair). Which is a statement so idiotic and extremely disrespectful, yet so common.

So much snobbishness and it is still a glorified parking lot race. No timing! I wouldn't mind buying my own transponder if it means I get to see laptimes and compare myself to others on paper. But noooo... The mindset is, YOU build a bike, YOU spend hundreds or thousands of dollars, YOU build it so it conforms to our rules but is useless or unsafe for any kind of daily riding, YOU bring your ass over here and lose 3 work days (I work 7 days a week), YOU pay the gate fee and all fees, and WE will not bring any more value than your local parking lot get together. Ummmm, no thanks.

As far as performance parts, the races are not the reason. The abundance of cheap CG kits is the reason. People wanting "something for nothing". People like Robert Bianchi posting reckless videos doing highway speeds on a bicycle, ON THE HIGHWAY. I messaged him about this and he just laughed in my face. I'm not saying I've never been on the highway on a bicycle, but I DO NOT condone the behavior, and sure as **** wouldn't do it to sell more parts. Performance parts for small block karting engines well, came for karting, not for motorized bikes.

 

[Gbrebes]

Hey Tony,

I’m sorry you feel this way.

From my past experience I understand that there are different personalities at the races and different opinions, and there will invariably be disagreements on what is best and what does not work on the track. But on race days I’ve been to, everyone is really happy to be there, very friendly, respectful and grateful to be racing.

I just don’t pay attention to the online drama and focus on having fun on the track and getting better. I have never had a bad time at the races, even when I was in the lead of a final and my glass fuel filter fell apart leaving me kicking the dirt on the side of the track DNF.

Have you ever been to a race? There is much less animosity or bravado when people are all face to face. Well, except that time Norm and another racer got into a bit of a scuffle over who got the pit spot first. The camaraderie is real, and I am thankful for all the cool people I have met at the races.

I am grateful to Neil for putting these races on. Without him, there would be no race series. And racing on a track with the chicanes, aprons, off-camber turns and elevation gains is not really comparable to a parking lot race with cones. They are not even close, in my humble opinion.

Gilbert

 

[Tony01]

Hey Tony,

I’m sorry you feel this way.

From my past experience I understand that there are different personalities at the races and different opinions, and there will invariably be disagreements on what is best and what does not work on the track. But on race days I’ve been to, everyone is really happy to be there, very friendly, respectful and grateful to be racing.

I just don’t pay attention to the online drama and focus on having fun on the track and getting better. I have never had a bad time at the races, even when I was in the lead of a final and my glass fuel filter fell apart leaving me kicking the dirt on the side of the track DNF.

Have you ever been to a race? There is much less animosity or bravado when people are all face to face. Well, except that time Norm and another racer got into a bit of a scuffle over who got the pit spot first. The camaraderie is real, and I am thankful for all the cool people I have met at the races.

I am grateful to Neil for putting these races on. Without him, there would be no race series. And racing on a track with the chicanes, aprons, off-camber turns and elevation gains is not really comparable to a parking lot race with cones. They are not even close, in my humble opinion.

Gilbert

Gilbert,

I've never been to a race. I've worked in karting briefly and have worked races, not totally new.

3 months ago Neil was ready to say anything to motivate me to build a midrange bike. I had said my ebike is my #1, he then says nobody is racing in unlimited and will probably get dropped, if you back out of 212 there won't be a spec class. At the time I didn't even have a frame for midrange. But I told him OK I'll build a midrange bike if time permitted, and found a frame finally at the cost of around $100. But then I talk to him today and he is saying there are a lot of unlimited bikes. He already knew he wasn't going to drop the unlimited class, but if he had said that then I would not have considered building another 212er, and ultimately would have saved myself some time and cash. But my cash flow is the least of Neil's concern. Need more proof? a moped rear from treats is around $100... a strong enough rear custom built 26 with a damgood hub is over $300... but rules, right?....

I don’t like getting dicked around. It became clear to me at some point that Neil will say one thing now and another thing later. I’m not about to travel 400 miles to find out which one it is and see what other surprises there are. Quite frankly, I've had enough of Neil and others thinking they can tell me what to do with my time and money. How about this: They can take their opinions and shove em up their ass. I’ll make a nice simple statement right here: I’m not coming to a race. I’m perfectly content with racing light to light occasionally and riding the twisties in the Santa Cruz mountains, where speed limits are 45+ and traffic is light. Bike pictured is my last project. I sold it last year.

I could have it all wrong, maybe I just outgrew it all. Some people love to build the same thing over and over again, some just want a bike the exact same as everybody else's but with a different paint job, me, I just want to challenge myself on my builds. I set my own standards for my work and make decisions based on what will work best for me now and in the future.

 

[bairdco]

Wow. Dude. I've raced bikes, cars, skis, and entered a million skateboard contests. It's ALWAYS you build it, you pay for it, you take time off to go, etc.

Unless you're pro and someone sponsors you, you have to pay to play.

And who cares about timing? If Gilbert is ten feet in front of me at the finish, I don't need to know how much faster he was, just that I got beat.

Also, parts cost money. Sorry. Most people in the china class's rear wheels cost about 79.99. And they got a whole Walmart bike to go with it.

Geez. You coulda built just about anything you wanted and came out to race, but you had to go all overboard crazy about it instead.

 

[Tony01]

Wow. Dude. I've raced bikes, cars, skis, and entered a million skateboard contests. It's ALWAYS you build it, you pay for it, you take time off to go, etc.

Unless you're pro and someone sponsors you, you have to pay to play.

And who cares about timing? If Gilbert is ten feet in front of me at the finish, I don't need to know how much faster he was, just that I got beat.

Also, parts cost money. Sorry. Most people in the china class's rear wheels cost about 79.99. And they got a whole Walmart bike to go with it.

Geez. You coulda built just about anything you wanted and came out to race, but you had to go all overboard crazy about it instead.

Maybe if you actually read the post you'd understand why I'm frustrated.

NOV 22 NEIL SR SAYS: (after i ask can I do subaru ex17, 169cc ohc engine cause I already have it and it'll save me around $170)

Probably ok if you don't do much to it but you back out of the 212 class and Sander too there will be no new spec 212 class again.

few messages later:

T: The midrange is my #2
N: Whats your #1?
T: Unlimited ebike
N: The UnLimited class is almost nobody so a bad choice. May be done away with.

At this point I'm deep in my ebike, but also I really want to race. I don't want to build another 212 bike, but if its the only way I'm gonna get to race, fine, I'll do it. Bikes don't get built in a month, so I decided to get started early.

Turns out all the stuff he said above was all bullshit. And it worked on an idiot like me.

Now it is clear that a) me backing out of midrange won't effect anybody else, this was just fear mongering, and who gives a damn if I spend an extra few hundred on a bike I'm only building to have something to race And Sander won't be in the 212 class either, but it looks like the class will still be there without either of us.
and b) who gives a damn if I spend an extra few hundred build on a bike I'm only building to have something to race, when in fact the unlimited class is not going anywhere, again fear mongering that the class my new $10000 build was gonna go into was gonna disappear.

So here I am, thinking well ****, maybe if I decided not to go racing then, told Neil "well too bad, guess you wont have a 212 class then" I woulda saved myself a lot of time and money building I bike I apparently don't even need.

You get it now? Turns out it was all BS. You telling me you wouldn't be pissed?

My efforts here obviously are 'expected', not 'appreciated'. I'll go elsewhere.


edit for the other points in your post:

Yeah, parts cost money. ebike rear wheel and controller $1000. steel, 6101 aluminum, fiberglass, foam, tools, tires tubes, battery cells, onboard charger, forks and a whole lot of other stuff $2000... I'm not complaining about parts cost. I'm pissed that so many act like my money and time is worth nothing. I wouldn't act like there wasn't gonna be any other way for you to race if I knew you already were so deep in an expensive project.

Timing? Data is my work. Finding trends from times and some basic rider and bike metadata would be really cool. A lot more exciting than a 6 pack and a joint.

 

[bairdco]

I get it that you're pissed. I've fought with neil plenty of times in the past. But the reality of it is, you can race whatever bike you want. Even if it breaks all the rules, you can still race for "fun." My buddy Reiny raced his kitted moped in the mid-range class with me, and no one cared.

Scotto will race anyone on anything in the unlimited class, and would be happy to have the competition, even if it doesn't meet the exact specifications of a "motorized bicycle."

No one cares about what you spend on your bike, that's just the way it is. It's up to you how much time and money you put into it. There's guys in the china classes running basically stock Walmart bikes who's total build cost is a couple hundred bucks, and they're just out to have fun.

Then there's guys spending thousands, and still not winning, but enjoying it just the same.

My mid-range bike is the most expensive bike I've ever built, but being able to do everything myself, find swap meet deals, etc, keeps the cost well within my budget, for a bike I ride 3-4 times a year.

And, for what it's worth, the amount of interaction you have with Neil is up to you. You can show up, pay the guy some money, and then ignore him until it's time to get your trophy. Or leave early without one...

 

[Venice Motor Bikes]

I concur with Baird... You can bring most anything to the track & race, (but you wont win any trophies unless it meets class rules). The 'regular' racers are the ones who made up all the rules (not Neil) over many years of racing & fussing over what's fair (& unfair).

The 2-stroke china girls have always made up the majority of the bikes showing up... So they make up the majority of the race classes... ( Beginner, Novice & Expert class), each having it's own rules that the racers ok'd to make the racing fair.

Every other type of bike that shows up is put into the 'Midrange' class (unless it's so powerful that it gets put into the 'unlimited' class: which many days has just been Scotto out there all alone on his Monster bike. (So Neil wasn't lying to you about the Unlimited class being almost nonexistent)... In fact, the class probably would've been dumped a long time ago if Scott didn't show up for every event.

Electric bikes are very rare out there, & they're usually hard to place in a class... (They're often too powerful for Midrange but not powerful enough for Unlimited).
If there were four or five electric bikes that would show up regularly?, they would have their own class... & even then, they would quickly start arguing over making new rules for the class!!


As far as lap times & all that other BS goes... These are just fun ~ low budget races & no one cares about that stuff!!!

Remember... It's the racers who actually show up & race regularly who make all the rules & classes (not Neil)... (but it always seems to be the guys who've never raced with us who get online & b*tch about the rules)
If you want to change the rules (or classes), you need to show up & race regularly!


In ending this... these are Neil's races (& I feel) that he does a really good job of keeping it going, keeping it fair & also doing what he can to bring in new racers.... So please, cut him some slack!

 

[Tony01]

Well said. I just wish I heard it from Neil 3 months ago. I don’t go around the main mans back to find the truth. But it woulda saved me time and money. Just cause I have the means to build a bike for a class, doesn’t mean it’s morally right to make it look like I should; when running what ya brung is just fine. And looks like if Neil just kept his “mentioning but not promising anything” mouth shut there would be no conflict. I’m partly pissed at myself for being too nice and accommodating. Also I have no idea how things are run over there. I didn’t want to be the ahole that comes in there to run what I brung and disrespect the several bike classes you guys have.

Worlds fastest Chicago Schwinn still a ways from being completed.

 

[MotorBicycleRacing]

212 turbo coming to the big Oct race all the way from the north East coast with another
fast 212 UnLimited racer with him.
Yep, they aren't whiners like Tony who lives in San Jose.
I have little interest in replying to Tonys one sided sob story and trolling here.

eBikes are the races are so few that they are mainly racing for fun so are not
a good choice for a SMBR race bike if you want to be scored.
3 ebikes at the last race and none made it to the UnLimited class final race.

 

[Tony01]

whatever. Haters are gonna hate

 

[Venice Motor Bikes]