Costly mistakes!

[yoyofred]

A month ago I finally purchased my first kit! It was a Bike Berry 49cc lock and load friction drive! This kit lasted four hours before I ripped the clutch drum right off and wasted the clutch. How? I was told by bikeberry this was my fault and it was because of cold starts. I explained to them that I could not of cold started it because it needed to be peddled before It would even move. After an email message from them stating my clutch drum was out of stock and it would be three weeks before the new one shipped. I was upset and their customer service treated it as a joke they would not issue me a refund or supply me with the parts to fix it for three weeks. I was furious and felt as though I have been ripped off. I wasn't going to wait three weeks for the part not to mention the drive roller is mis aligned and the drive roller creates tons of drag. I decided to buy a staton kit and mount my FS engine on it. I installed the kit with the heavy duty clutch and the kit looked solid compared to the bikeberry kit and could not have been happier. Any ways it lasted for about 2 days the threads ripped right out of the clutch drum. I spoke with Dave and he shaved some off the clutch drum because he thought the clutch may have been in contact with the face of the drum. I waited for the drum to arrive and he instructed me to use red loctite. I received the parts a few days later put it all back together cured the loctite for 24 hours and went for a ride the threads stripped out again. I talked to Dave he said that I have to release the clutch while going down the hills and coast. I've tried this I have to slow down to almost 5 mph to get the clutch to release it takes a good 30 seconds or so. Then when I get done with the coast and the bike slows down I give it some gas. This is when the clutch breaks! I even tig welded the drum on this busted the drive rollers. Dave sent me an email stating" That nothing I am doing could possibly strip the threads out". He said " No one has ever had this problem! Then why is it happening to me? Can someone explain this is 2 kits, 2 drive rollers, 4 clutch drums, and oh yeah 2 bikes! I have all kinds of questions and I hope you all can help. Do you have to ride these things that carefully to make sure the clutch engages at the perfect speed and time? is there a learning curve or something? Are these kits not made for large hills? Should I cut my losses at this point, or is there a way I could get a dependable bike? Could I convert these friction drives into something more dependable? Any help would be appreciated!
I just want to ride my bike,
Fred

 

[5-7HEAVEN]

Yoyo, looks like you changed everything except the engine and the driver, lol.

Staton is the expert.

What kind of engine do you have?

Can you spin the roller, when the engine is off the tire?

My guess is that your engine or the roller is binding.

 

[yoyofred]

Yoyo, looks like you changed everything except the engine and the driver, lol.

Staton is the expert.

What kind of engine do you have?

Can you spin the roller, when the engine is off the tire?

My guess is that your engine or the roller is binding.

I have the HS 142F with a 1 inch roller and the bearings that come in the kit. I did talk to dave the other day he said he would send me a new clutch drum, but I never received a email of the shipment. He said it was probably backing out the clutch drum because i failed to disengage the clutch going down hill. He also sent me an email stating that nothing I do to the kit should cause the clutch drum to strip out. I took the first piece of advice and made sure the clutch would disengage slowing the bike down to 5 mph before I went down the hills. This last time when the axle snapped I just finished coasting the hill, and when I started to slow down to about 8 to 10 mph I made sure I was peddling then gave it some gas and no power. What do you mean binding? The drive wheel does spin freely when it is off the tire. The motor does seem to be mounted securely. Could the engine shaft be crooked causing this? I wanna replace the engine too, but I would really like to get the kit working first.

 

[5-7HEAVEN]

I've had my engines bind on my friction drive.
Sometimes the mounting bolts are slightly too long and bottom out on the engine block. So then, I've used a washer on one or two mounting bolts.

Basically, you tighten the mounting bolts and spin the roller, to make sure that nothing binds.

I recall some other club members having their HS142 clutch drums ripped apart.

They had some type of "g-transmissions", and were looking to use pocket bike transmissions.

It could be that the HS engine has too much torque for friction drive.

Large, powerful engines have huge friction rollers. Some are over 2" diameter.

If you can, borrow a weaker engine with the same clutch size and install it onto your friction drive.

FWIW, most engines mounted on friction drive have much less low end torque than the HS142.

What size is your roller?

If I were me, I'd try the a smaller engine or a 1.5" roller.

Good luck.

 

[5-7HEAVEN]

It's strange that you have a 1" roller. Those are for climbing hills, which means low gearing.
As a cheap experiment, what you could do is temporarily build up your 1" roller to 1.5" or larger. You could use Gorilla tape, or tire tube rubber.

Run that modified roller and see if it makes the difference.

If you'd want to install a roller larger than 1.5", you'll have to cut a large hole directly over the roller, the length of the oversized roller.

That's because the friction roller's position is close to the underside of the housing.

When looking at pictures of the HS142's clutch, it seems like it protrudes out from the block further than engines smaller than it.

This engine is a clone of the Honda GX50 engine.

The Honda GX50 needs a special adaptor and clutch to adapt it to conventional friction drive or other 78mm clutch attachments.

 

[yoyofred]

Thanks 5-7heaven! I wanted a 1 1/8 but he was out of them. I did like the ratio although it was kinda slow max speed of 22 mph. The bike berry kit had a huge roller I tore that up too! I do agree with what your saying, and think the one inch roller has to much torque for the kit. No bike right now because Dave didn't send out the clutch drum like he said he would. I think I have to buy this one. I sent him an email too stating that I need to get this kit fixed, and what is it gonna take different motor etc, and still no reply. I'm kinda getting fed up all I want is a reliable ride, and I thought choosing a friction drive would be the most reliable. This has not been my case. I would hate to take a total loss on these kits I want to get both of them going eventually. I'm thinking of converting the bike berry kit into a chain drive, and then maybe buy the proper motor for the staton and see if that helps. I'm just afraid that dumping more money into these bikes would just be a waste of money. Any ideas on how I can fix this bike, and make it dependable?

 

[5-7HEAVEN]

Are you absolutely sure that your roller is not binding?

Try to borrow an engine with same clutch size.
Bolt it on and test-ride.

I think it's the engine.
I'd never seen an HS142 on friction drive.

I ran friction drive for years.
My bikes had voracious appetites for wearing the treads off the tires.
I think I averaged wearing out one tire a month,

My friction drive bikes were also prone to picking up nails and screws, resulting in flat tires.

I converted my friction drive to chain drive/shift kit.

I'm very happy, and my tires last for years.

 

[chmn22s]

I'd seen some interesting builds with pics of a belt drive to the rim. that setup may be very forgiving of torque thru the clutch, and possibly can be fabricated yourself.

Im not a fan of BB and seeing they won't post my mixed reviews on parts I got from them. there are many resources out there to help with our bikes. best luck and hope you get it sorted out!

 

[5-7HEAVEN]

Some HS engines have straight shafts at the clutch; others have tapered ones.

Be sure you have the correct clutch for your engine.

 

[yoyofred]

I'd seen some interesting builds with pics of a belt drive to the rim. that setup may be very forgiving of torque thru the clutch, and possibly can be fabricated yourself.

Im not a fan of BB and seeing they won't post my mixed reviews on parts I got from them. there are many resources out there to help with our bikes. best luck and hope you get it sorted out!

I'll have to look around. I'm debating on how I should go about this. I could wait to get a different engine for my friction drive with roller, drum and bearings. Or I could just order the drive roller, drum, and try to see if it will work. Or cut my losses on the friction drive and use the HS in another build possibly a belt drive like you mentionor maybe chain. I personally like the engine behind me, but I really don't know I've never had an in frame mount.

Are you absolutely sure that your roller is not binding?

Try to borrow an engine with same clutch size.
Bolt it on and test-ride.

I think it's the engine.
I'd never seen an HS142 on friction drive.

I ran friction drive for years.
My bikes had voracious appetites for wearing the treads off the tires.
I think I averaged wearing out one tire a month,

My friction drive bikes were also prone to picking up nails and screws, resulting in flat tires.

I converted my friction drive to chain drive/shift kit.

I'm very happy, and my tires last for years.

I wish I knew some people around here that had motorized bikes. I live out in the sticks, so borrowing an engine probably won't be possible. How did you convert yours to a chain drive? I would probably have to get a new bike because of the mag wheels. Unless they make a sprocket that will mount to a disc brake pattern. Do you know of any?

 

[5-7HEAVEN]

Tighten the 4 bellhousing bolts and ensure that there's no binding.

Remove the engine and verify if the clutch matches the crankshaft. If the shaft is tapered, make sure the clutch also has a taper.
You'll have to remove the clutch from the crankshaft.

 

[yoyofred]

Tighten the 4 bellhousing bolts and ensure that there's no binding.

Remove the engine and verify if the clutch matches the crankshaft. If the shaft is tapered, make sure the clutch also has a taper.
You'll have to remove the clutch from the crankshaft.

I've done all that! It was a taperd shaft. I made sure each time I installed the engine that there was no binding. I'm ordering a new clutch drum today. I will take a couple days to get here I'll try to take pics and video of the assembly to post.

 

[5-7HEAVEN]

I'll have to look around. I'm debating on how I should go about this. I could wait to get a different engine for my friction drive with roller, drum and bearings. Or I could just order the drive roller, drum, and try to see if it will work. Or cut my losses on the friction drive and use the HS in another build possibly a belt drive like you mentionor maybe chain. I personally like the engine behind me, but I really don't know I've never had an in frame mount.



I wish I knew some people around here that had motorized bikes. I live out in the sticks, so borrowing an engine probably won't be possible. How did you convert yours to a chain drive? I would probably have to get a new bike because of the mag wheels. Unless they make a sprocket that will mount to a disc brake pattern. Do you know of any?

 

[5-7HEAVEN]

Years ago, I'd seen a few rear chain drive systems on these forums.

thatsdax.com has a link on this forum.
Ask him if he still sells his rear engine chain drive system.

Or you could DIY from scratch, using metal plate, angle iron, chain and sprockets. You'll have to use some sort of transmission to get a low gear ratio.

If your rear wheel hub uses disc brake, there are sprockets drilled for that 6-bolt pattern.

Look on ebay or website vendors.

Or you could drill the 6 holes yourself.

My present ride uses an obsolete Scooterguy adaptor plate and pocket bike 5:1 tranny. This setup mounts my Tanaka 47R engine, high on the midframe. From there, it chains directly to the sprockets on the bike's bottom bracket (BB).

On my twin-engine project, both engines are mounted midframe. Using the 5:1 pocket bike transmissions, they are chained to their individual sprockets on the BB.

It's all DIY; I'm not using any kits.