Turnigy 5.0

[silverbear]

3S packs? Do you mean three of the 5 amh packs in series, like the ones first mentioned in this thread? Yes, three of the bricks in series.

I'd have to be sure the three would fit. Maybe cut three "bricks" out of wood and see.

Since the preferred passenger would be female I wanted to avoid anything suggesting she weighs too much for the bike to handle. Maybe point the tri-car downhill.
SB

 

[Lungcookie]

yup 3 packs.

139mm long x 46mm wide x 44mm tall, they are not flat on the sides, tapers a bit, that was measured at widest point. across the top 45mm wide.

"Since the preferred passenger would be female I wanted to avoid anything suggesting she weighs too much for the bike to handle. Maybe point the tri-car downhill"

Wise man.

 

[cannonball2]

Yes SB I have to concur, a very wise man!

No I meant(didn't make it very clear) 3S as in the packs are 11.1v. You would run the 3S packs in series(3S/3S I guess). This would make a 33.3v nominal pack. Would be 37.8 charged. The advantage is the LVC of an SLA controller is in line(with in a volt) with the LVC needed for the Lipos. Personally I like over volted systems and monitor the LVC myself. If you ran 3 of the 4S packs you would have a 44.4v nominal pack with a charged voltage of 50.4. This will get 756w(a full 1HP) from your 500w(2/3hp) 36v system. The system will be perfectly happy at this voltage, however the LVC for the Lipos is 10v higher than the one set in the controller. If you run the system until the controllers LVC cuts it, be sure to stop on the way home and recycle the batteries because they will be toast!
There are so many variables, if you up to a 48v system then the 4S packs are inline with the controllers LVC. The basic difference in most systems rated voltage(within parameters) are the voltages programmed into the controller, the motor itself can handle different voltages with in reason.

The take away from all this is figure out what system you want to run then we can advise you on the batteries to run and how much involvement you will need to to have in managing the system. Theres a multitude of ways to do it

 

[Lungcookie]

3 'cell' packs.
Right your talking about what TO do, not what I did.

sorry just adding to the confusion.

 

[silverbear]

You guys are the best! While I still intend to study the wiki site on Endless Sphere, my interest in the site pretty well ends there. There are a lot of serious ebikers there with perhaps a few too many amps passing through their brains at higher voltage than my brain meter can read. I can imagine the response when I say I want to use a hub motor to start my real engine. And 24 volts? Ha ha ha. Not meaning to judge, just saying that I'm a lot more comfortable here talking to guys like you who understand where I'm coming from. Your willingness to help out those of us interested, but who do not speak e-talk, is a real good thing, so thank you for that.

I think we're going to see more and more ebikes, especially with prices and options in batteries making it more possible for guys like me to go electric, at least in part. I'm truly excited about it! No doubt others are reading this thread or will in future read it and give the possibility more consideration.

There's a lot to be said for electric, much as I like the sound of gas motors, the smell of gasoline and familiarity. Gas motors are like home. E-bikes are like a foreign country. But maybe that foreign country isn't so very foreign after all. Not Nigeria, but Canada maybe.

I'll do a mm conversion since I tend to get millimeters and meters mixed up. Don't speak metric, but I've heard of it. I think a real good idea for me is to make some dummy RC bricks to see what will fit in the copper tool box. No sense thinking about 36V if the batteries won't fit.

Actually I have two 36 volt controllers for my original Golden Motor front wheel from before the days they have been referred to as "magic pie". One of them I cooked by reversing the polarity of the battery leads. I bought an identical one used from someone who was upgrading to higher voltage. Now I'm wondering if the cooked one is pretty easily fixed. Might be just replacing one of those little thingies inside, right? If it can be fixed then that would be one less thing to buy and one more reason to go 36 volts for both trikes. 5 amp RC batteries for the tri-car and 10 amp for the delta trike (or twice as many in 5 amp)... 3 of the 3s bricks for the tri-car and 6 of them for the delta trike. Do I have that right?
SB

 

[cannonball2]

Yep SB that's Right! You are starting to speak the foreign language of E bike.

Its worth a look into the controller to see if there is anything obvious. However they are pretty cheap($25/30), especially if you don't mind ordering directly from China. I have ordered two this way with no problem. One even included a thumb throttle. I would suggest 36v on both trikes if you can fit it. If both trikes aren't going to be used at the same time then it gets better in that you can just assemble/disassemble the packs to get the different amperages. Means you really only need one pack.

You need to build around the idea of easy install/removal of the packs. These batteries you don't want to leave installed due to the way they are charged/discharged. Using an R/C charger and a plate make it nearly impossible to properly charge while installed. Also its a safety factor in the unlikely failure of a cell or the charger.

 

[Lungcookie]

SNAP!!!!

Can't say as I would recommend using the positive to negative method that I have employed for series connection.

About 10 cycles and I have already killed 1 battery plugging in the +/- on the same battery...BIG sparks! Wires got very hot now it looks dead.

Also looking at youtube and lipo fires, I am starting to think these batteries are down right scary, If they fail they go boom. Don't puncture these unless you like fireballs. Store them safely and not in a sealed container, vent and fire proof container.

This has been a safety alert...thank you.
Now back to your scheduled program.

 

[cannonball2]

Whoa LC be careful!! I have the same deal with my modular pack, so far have plugged em in right. Mine is complicated by the fact I ran out of red wire so some of the +s are black wire with red Andersons. Gotta pay close attention!!

I agree that the Lipo is a chemistry to be respected, and I do so. One has to cause the problem though. The hard case packs we run go a long way to up the safety factor. However in the years of using Lipos these are the first ones I have had.
Like it or not Lipos/Li-Ion are every where in our homes. Cell phones, laptops, tablets etc. Not to mention all the small R/C stuff turned loose on the public(kids especially). Using the testimonies of the naysayers, most households are in danger of burning and many should have burned by now.
I believe experience shows that Lipos fires occur by mishandling/misuse, and maybe charger failure( NEVER charge un attended). A static Lipo is very similar to an unloaded gun, pretty harmless but the potential is there. A loaded gun is another matter. Many accidental fatalities occur each year by mishandling, same with Lipo fires.

If safety is of the utmost importance the people should by all means run SLAs.
Poor Tesla drivers!

 

[silverbear]

As you can well imagine, these recent posts have gotten the old bear's attention. Considering my situation with the tri-car I would be sitting with a gallon or so of gasoline a wee bit forward of my family jewels (not worth much anything on the open market, but precious to me) and immediately behind me nether parts would be a copper cylinder stuffed with as many RC batteries as will fit. Let me think about this matter of being the buffer between to protect the leather on the seat from catching on fire. It might seriously hurt, I'm thinking. Containing the RC batteries in a copper enclosure might not be such a good idea, perhaps.

One thing that does raise questions is the business of regenerative charging the batteries while under ICE power. Overcharging can set them off, supposedly, so making sure that can not happen would be more than just important.

One thought is for me to use a laptop battery pack for the tri-car and to go ahead with RC batteries with the delta trike. I have enough room with the delta trike to isolate the RC batteries and contain them in such a way that there would be little chance of a real fire even if there was an overcharge that wrecked them and I would not be sitting inches away from them.

Lots of time for me to investigate this and I don't want to over react. On the other hand I do want to be cautious. Good to have this conversation I think.
SB

 

[Lungcookie]

Granted most of the youtube vids of Lipo fires are from some one hammering a nail or such into the soft pack or overcharging purposely. Also some hard crashes with R/C fliers.

Not trying to scare off you guys, just want every one to be safe.
These batteries have more energy potential than a cell phone battery and a bigger boom factor.

Lithium and water do NOT mix, makes more fire.

The reason I said to vent the container is if a battery failed it would contain the fire and not turn into a bomb.

Think I will color code the wires with some different color electric tape.
Strapping this backpack battery on just make me nervous now.

SB
If just using as a starter battery I would think a battery that liked to be stored at a full charge might be better/easier.
Also if using lipo as a starter battery, could you not just charge at home with proper charger?

WTH!?
Type LiPo in the interweb enough times you may start to get weightloss offers.
I just received a bottle of garcinia cambogia extract in the mail, I never ordered...and I am rather slight of build.

 

[Lungcookie]

Finished pack



Don't wear to jury duty, may get a S.W.A.T/LEO boot on your neck.

 

[cannonball2]

Super nice/neat work LC! Whats on the end of the packs? Also whats the voltage/AH?

 

[Lungcookie]

Thanks CB2, the red things are little slide tabs to tell what is charged red/green. That pack is 50v/10ah, 3series/2parallel.

 

[cannonball2]

Cool idea on the slide tabs. You pretty much did your own worst case scenario test and survived. Did the battery puff? I have seen many of my fellow heli pilots fly under rated packs only to puff em on the first flight. Nothing eats amps like 3D heli flying! Whats the amp limit on your controller? Mine are fixed in the 15- 20amp range. Means the packs are basically loafing C wise, only pulling 3-4C. Even if the C rating is a bit exaggerated(may or may not be) this is well under any critical ceiling. Face value of the packs is 20C, 30C bursts( 100/150amps respectively). On the side of conservatism I would use 66% of the constant C rating, say 60amps. This should offer pretty good acceleration, and not kill the packs. Of all the abuse I have seen unleashed on lipos in action, puffing is the worst. Seen plenty of crashes with no issues, even with deformed packs. Not saying its not going to happen, it just takes the right combination of events, which don't seem to be a common occurrence.

All that said not sure Id be comfortable wearing the pack! I know the folks over at the Sphere have been doing it a long time, but you are just never sure when some jackass is gonna run you over!

 

[Lungcookie]

I thought the charge indicators were neat too, I never use them though.

Pulled the plastic case off, cells look ok visually no puffing.
Crazy idea now is pulling all the packs apart and building 6cells out of the 4cell batteries. Cut down on connectors and may fit 10ah in the Gravity frame.
Nuts?

I can set the amp and watt limit with the CA3, set at 10a/400w on the mountain bike/geared250w, The cruiser/Pie3 I run at 20a now.

I bought a fiber-glass/fire resistant bag for the back-pack battery, But I itch for a half a day after touching it so I don't use it. Good for a 1000 degrees for 5 minutes, could at least get it off before going up in a ball of fire. I need to figure a way to contain the bag in plastic so I don't have to touch it.

Had a guy get within an arm length of me yesterday 45-50mph, no one else on the road...get the h**l over you frik'n unconscious drivers.

 

[cannonball2]

Good settings on amperage. I can tolerate the moderate acceleration of the common kit controllers which are as said 20amps or less. Its top speed I like and that is voltage of course.
Cool idea if you can frame mount the packs. How are you planning the build?

Im never sure if its inattention or aggravation with some of these drivers. I think some come close to make the point "you are riding on their road".

 

[Lungcookie]

The in-frame mounting is just an idea at the moment, cardboard box mode.
May try vacuum forming ABS, never have done it though.
This Gravity frame is a small so it is snug.
It fits me well at 5'7".

Really need to quit messing with stuff and just ride.
I swear I tinker with these bikes as much as I ride em.

The back pack battery actually works rather well and I just ride it off road mostly, its the trail bike.

I have been wearing the ugly orange pack/no battery on road with the cruiser just for safety, has a crash pad in it too, its made for motorcycle riders. I am usually dressed in earth tone colors and I felt I needed to be more visible, not sure its helping. It does confuse the roadie/lycra guys, until they get up close.

 

[magwa]

Okay, guys. I just ordered eight 5.0's.

I'm picking up the bike today that is running about 400 pounds of SLAs (kidding, but close!!!). So I can't tell what the stats are on the 1000W 48v controller kit.

I'm going to be the idiot child here: Starting with connectors and a visual management system and a charger.....Can you all help me drop a few more of my hard-earned bucks at HK?

 

[Lungcookie]

I don't know what your experience is with Ebikes or R/C stuff is, but I really would not recommend these batteries to a new user for ebikes.

You would be better off with a dolphin/water bottle battery.
Safer/easier, in frame mount for better bike feel, more balanced.

Did you read through that 10.0 thread?
There are lots of links to everything you need, if you still want to use HK LiPo.

K007 linked a couple good looking waterbottle style too.

What are your plans for 8?
You only need 6-4s/5.0 to make a 50v 10ah pack.
WAY easier to use 2- 6s/10.0 for the 50v.

 

[magwa]

Well, I knee jerked. They are coming. So, I guess I have to learn. I jumped in. So, I'm going to HAVE to learn. I brought the bike home today. I'm going to post a controller question in a different thread.

Here is a link to some pics in case no one sees the other thread.

Thanks.

https://magwa.smugmug.com/Electric-BikeController/i-TGSvwHX