Concerning Whether to Build or Not

D

DemonSlayerz

New Member
Good evening everyone. My name is Adam, I am 22 years old and I am currently seeking advice on my first build and whether or not a build would be a possibility on my current rig which I have right now.

Given the measurements of my ride (which I will post below shortly), I am not entirely sure if I would be able to mount either a 2 Stroke or a 4 Stroke engine. In either case though, it all comes down to what can (or will) fit on my rig which will ultimately determine which direction I go towards the end of all this..

My current ride is a 2007 Raleigh Venture 3.0 (Factory Condition to the best of my knowledge) which was purchased for me as a gift some 5-8 years ago. This bike has served for me as a form of dedicated transportation for years now, and I am eager to find out if I will be able to improve my overall driving experience on a day to day basis.

So, without further ado, let us begin.

With my ride being a Raleigh, I noticed that the biggest issue I was (and am) going to face is the odd size & shape of the Down Tube on my frame. If anyone of you here have ever owned a Raleigh, then you'll know that their Down Tubes usually take the shape of a sideways oval at the bottom of the frame connected into the Bottom Bracket, and then transition to an upright facing oval where they're connected into the Head Fork.

Note: These measurements were taken from the inside of the frame to better get an accurate figure as to how much space there is between each point of the bike's frame.

Measurements are the length of the Seat Tube, Down Tube & Top Tube.

2ujjdr8.jpg


The Down Tube is the part where I feel will be the most tricky.

The base of the Down Tube where it meets the Bottom Bracket measures 2.5" - that measurement is while looking down on the tube from an areal view. When you near the Head Fork while following the Down Tube, the measurements change to 1 3/4" (again, this is while measuring it from atop).

When you look at the Down Tube from the side, the measurements at the base of the Bottom Bracket is 1.5", where as at the top of the Down Tube near the Head Fork, the measurement is 2 3/4".

Here's a sideways shot of the Bottom Tube to give you a better idea of what I'm referring to.

rwtkc2.jpg


Another issue I realized I was going to endure was the fact that the rear brakes are wired into the bottom portion of the Down Tube. So, if my bike would be able to have a motor mounted to it, I would have to drill through & around the rear brake lines to make sure I avoided damaging anything important.

Picture taken near the Bottom Bracket:
2wqd7oi.jpg


In addition to the measurements of the Down Tube, my Top Tube has a consistent diameter of 1 5/8", where my Seat Tube has a consistent diameter of 1 1/4". So I'm not sure if I would face any problem there either when it comes to managing a build.

Obviously, I would prefer to use my current rig since it's a $300+ bike and has been good to me in terms of quality and life consistency. However, if it will be nearly impossible to use this rig in my current build project, then I might have to wait until I can afford to buy a new ride altogether (perhaps a Beach Cruiser) and build my ride on that one instead.

In any case, I thank anyone who can offer me some insight as to what they feel will & won't be possible in this upcoming build of mine. I hope to hear from you all soon & look forward to getting this amazing project underway ASAP.

Thanks again!

Sincerely,
Adam P.

usflg pino.
 
Good evening!

Your bike ought to be able to accept a 2 cycle engine. Probably a 4 cycle as well. I've never built a 4 cycle, though. Others will be more knowledgeable there.

Your front engine mount will be problematic, as you've already figured out. Maybe the simplest solution would be to use a muffler clamp or two and bridge to the mount from there.

You'll want to make sure that whatever you use is a good fit. If that becomes a problem, then you should consider buying yourself a $100 mountain bike. They really are good enough if treated with the proper respect.

This would give you one advantage. When your motor assisted bicycle is giving you troubles, (it's bound to happen at least some) you'll have the Raleigh to fall back on.
 
Welcome Demon. We're glad you've chosen to join us and ask for assistance. I hope we can steer you in the right direction.

Here is a very old but comprehensive thread covering engine mounting in non-standard frames. It deals primarily with the Chinese 2 stroke engine so the information is somewhat focused. http://motorbicycling.com/showthread.php?t=6427

Nevertheless, we have a seach feature that you might try. Type in the brand name and model of your bike and see if others have successfully motorized that particular frame.

Good luck and keep us posted on whatever you decide.

Tom
 
Another way to make mounts for odd size or shaped tubing is to use a countour gauge and trace ou the contour on a 1/2" thick aluminum plate, you'll need access to a band saw to cut it efficiently and a drill press or a vise and a very steady hand to drill the holes, but basically you use the contour gauge to duplicate the countour of the frame tube in question, cut on the line, or just inside the line (for a better file to fit fit), then drill out the bolt holes. If the bottom tube is wider than the bolt holes then the plates will need to be wider and bolted to the engine, then thru bolts to bolt the plates together sandwiching the frame. 1.2" aluminum or thicker plate stock is easy to work with if you got access to the right tools (drill press and band saw).
You can also make the plates out of phenolic, but the idea is to make a mount like this... http://www.ebay.com/itm/MOTORIZED-B...rcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item418e24ece5

but use a contour gauge like this... http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&page=1&rh=i:aps,k:contour gauges to remake the bottom tube clamp so the frame tube clamp part will hug the frame tube as exactly as possible.
 
Good evening!

Your bike ought to be able to accept a 2 cycle engine. Probably a 4 cycle as well. I've never built a 4 cycle, though. Others will be more knowledgeable there.

Your front engine mount will be problematic, as you've already figured out. Maybe the simplest solution would be to use a muffler clamp or two and bridge to the mount from there.

You'll want to make sure that whatever you use is a good fit. If that becomes a problem, then you should consider buying yourself a $100 mountain bike. They really are good enough if treated with the proper respect.

This would give you one advantage. When your motor assisted bicycle is giving you troubles, (it's bound to happen at least some) you'll have the Raleigh to fall back on.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that advice, BlueGoat. I greatly appreciate it. Right now, I am considering trying to use a muffler clamp or to bridge the mount (I have a friend who's more mechanically knowledgeable than myself, and he says that at worst, we could more than likely have someone at our local college weld a custom mounting plate to hold the engine. Perhaps that would work as well?).

Whatever the case though, this is definitely going to be a project that requires a lot of discipline and planning before any purchases are made.

I do like your last idea ~ about purchasing a bike from Walmart and using my Raleigh to fall back on if anything happens. I have been pondering whether that would be the better of what my current options are at this time.

In any case, whatever comes out to being the most efficient both in terms of sturdiness (how well the engine will be mounted to the frame) & financially feasible, will most likely win out in the long run.

Thanks again for the advice, I greatly appreciate it!

Sincerely,
Adam

Welcome Demon. We're glad you've chosen to join us and ask for assistance. I hope we can steer you in the right direction.

Here is a very old but comprehensive thread covering engine mounting in non-standard frames. It deals primarily with the Chinese 2 stroke engine so the information is somewhat focused. http://motorbicycling.com/showthread.php?t=6427

Nevertheless, we have a search feature that you might try. Type in the brand name and model of your bike and see if others have successfully motorized that particular frame.

Good luck and keep us posted on whatever you decide.

Tom
Click to expand...

Hey Tom, thanks for the tip. I will admit that I was very quick to post rather than search for an answer on my issue simply for the fact that I had a specific issue I was facing and wanted to get peoples opinions immediately.

Anyway, I have searched around a bit for any tips on a Raleigh Venture 3.0, and I found a similar design on a forum post here that shows a 2 Stroke successfully mounted on a rear bicycle carrier rack (interesting thought). So, if purchasing a new bike doesn't fit the bill and I'm unable to successfully mount the engine within the middle of my frame, I suppose there's always the option of mounting said engine over the rear tire upon the top of a bike carrier rack.

In any case, I will keep you all updated on what information I am able to find out and we will be able to go successfully from there.

Thanks again for your time and for your tips! I greatly appreciate it!

Sincerely,
Adam


DemonSlayerz- Cold this work for you? http://www.pistonbikes.com/product-p/sbpmm.htn

Here's a link to a build where I stuffed a 4-Stroke into an Onex. You can see the clearance, and Onex specs are easy to get and compare your frame to. http://motorbicycling.com/showthread.php?t=57089

Good luck!

{im new to posting links, and the first only gets you to the site. search for wide motor mounts there}
Click to expand...

Hey Trey, thanks for these ideas. Unfortunately I was unable to open up the first link (it leads to PistonBikes main item showcase page), so I'm not sure what you were leading to there.

However, your second link has been very helpful in that I've been able to see how you mounted a 4 Stroke to your Onex. My biggest concern for my Raleigh isn't so much about whether or not I'll have the space to mount my 4 Stroke, but whether or not I'd be able to get the mounting plate on the Down Tube.

Given it's strange shape & overall size, I'm not quite sure how it's going to work out. Whatever the case though, if there's a will there's a way and I am not about to take this challenge lying down.

I appreciate your help and am going to do more digging on the matter until I find a usable solution that's bullet proof!

Thanks for your time, I greatly appreciate it!

By the way, where did you purchase your engine kit if I may ask? I'm looking at several sellers but can't decide on one 100% just yet. Never hurts to get some seasoned Bike Builders opinions, ya know?

In any case, thanks again for your time, I greatly appreciate it!

Sincerely,
Adam


Another way to make mounts for odd size or shaped tubing is to use a countour gauge and trace ou the contour on a 1/2" thick aluminum plate, you'll need access to a band saw to cut it efficiently and a drill press or a vise and a very steady hand to drill the holes, but basically you use the contour gauge to duplicate the countour of the frame tube in question, cut on the line, or just inside the line (for a better file to fit fit), then drill out the bolt holes. If the bottom tube is wider than the bolt holes then the plates will need to be wider and bolted to the engine, then thru bolts to bolt the plates together sandwiching the frame. 1.2" aluminum or thicker plate stock is easy to work with if you got access to the right tools (drill press and band saw).
You can also make the plates out of phenolic, but the idea is to make a mount like this... http://www.ebay.com/itm/MOTORIZED-BI...item418e24ece5

but use a contour gauge like this... http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&page...ntour gauges to remake the bottom tube clamp so the frame tube clamp part will hug the frame tube as exactly as possible.
Click to expand...

While I understand where you're going, Dave, I would love to avoid cutting into my Raleigh frame if I could help it. At most, I would be willing to weld/redesign my frame to better accompany the fit of the engine, but without risking the frames structural integrity.

Anyway, thanks for your advice! I greatly appreciate you taking the time to offer me what you would do in my situation and am greatly appreciative! :)

Thanks again!

Sincerely,
Adam
 
Adam, glad your finding some usefull stuff.
I got my kit at my local Gas-Bike store. Really. Bird Dog Distributing.
No shipping cost is nice. I rarely compare their prices, because the type of service I depend on is from someone I can see. Their prices do seem pretty good though, and they have shelves of parts, kits and motors on hand. They're also usually assembling a complete M.A.B. or two whenever I go there. I've been pleased with them.

If you're considering a new bike for this build, I'm impressed with the Micargi Rover GX 26" Beach Cruiser. The research I've done seems promising. I haven't found much here about it, which makes me wonder. Of course, if your pocket is feeling fatter, there's a Worksman in the $500 to $600 range out there.

The search bar up top is as you've seen, super helpful. You seem well oriented with a computer, so you'll understand how to search the same problem from multiple angles.

Good luck!
 
Trey said:
Adam, glad your finding some usefull stuff.
I got my kit at my local Gas-Bike store. Really. Bird Dog Distributing.
No shipping cost is nice. I rarely compare their prices, because the type of service I depend on is from someone I can see. Their prices do seem pretty good though, and they have shelves of parts, kits and motors on hand. They're also usually assembling a complete M.A.B. or two whenever I go there. I've been pleased with them.

If you're considering a new bike for this build, I'm impressed with the Micargi Rover GX 26" Beach Cruiser. The research I've done seems promising. I haven't found much here about it, which makes me wonder. Of course, if your pocket is feeling fatter, there's a Worksman in the $500 to $600 range out there.

The search bar up top is as you've seen, super helpful. You seem well oriented with a computer, so you'll understand how to search the same problem from multiple angles.

Good luck!
Click to expand...

Thanks for that tip, mate. I'll see if there are any shops within my state which I could pick up an engine from ~ just like you said, it's always easier to make a purchase when you can talk with someone face to face and see the quality of their product they're standing behind.

In any case, I do admire the look of those bikes you mentioned. However, my wallet isn't going to be too fat for my first build, which is why I'm doing a lot of research & pondering on what will be possible & how the budget might turn out to be in the end.

One bike I am eyeballing if my current rig falls through, is a Huffy Cranbrook 26" Beach Cruiser at my local Wally. While it wouldn't be the highest quality bike on the market, for $95, it definitely wouldn't hurt to try it out!

Still, gonna keep searching! Thanks again for all the advice, I greatly appreciate it!

Sincerely,
Adam
 
Nothing wrong with a Cranbrook build. Well... you are going to get alot of feedback on that one. I know a thread where two members, who have each given good advice, disagree on the Huffy; http://motorbicycling.com/showthread.php?=55117 Of course, there is much info and opinion to be found in the search bar up top.
My opinion (he adds without being asked) is that after you upgrade the rear hub, brakes and all the do dads, you're alot closer to $200 than you were planning to be. Then you have in front of you a brand new Gas-Bike that took more time to build, almost as much money, and is not as quality a machine as you could have had. Foundation. It's something to consider.
There's always discount, overstock or used. But that could take time.

Trey
 
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A 2-stroke will fit in a Raleigh Talus 5.0 with the funky semi-square downtube.

2_WhiteRaleighDoneL.jpg


WhiteRaleighDoneFrontL.jpg


Just get the Large sick bike parts front mount and leave the muffler clamp out.
 
KCvale said:
A 2-stroke will fit in a Raleigh Talus 5.0 with the funky semi-square downtube.

2_WhiteRaleighDoneL.jpg


WhiteRaleighDoneFrontL.jpg


Just get the Large sick bike parts front mount and leave the muffler clamp out.
Click to expand...

Good to know! Might just have a build ahead of me after all!

Now I'm just debating whether I should fork over $120 (ebay - 66cc) or $180 (SkyHawk GT2B 48cc) for a 2-Stroke motor (or $300 for a 4-Stroke Motor). Whatever the case, I'm currently performing heavy maintainence on my Raleigh Venture 2.0, due to it not being properly serviced in several years.

Cleaning the gears, chain, cranks & bearings and going to get them all lubed up today. Hopefully it'll help the components of my amazing ride last longer and we'll be that much closer to a build!

Thanks for all your advice, Trey & TCVale! I greatly appreciate it!

Will keep you guys up to date on my progress! :)

Sincerely,
Adam
 
DemonSlayerz said:
Now I'm just debating whether I should fork over $120 (ebay - 66cc) or $180 (SkyHawk GT2B 48cc) for a 2-Stroke motor (or $300 for a 4-Stroke Motor).
Click to expand...

Somewhat different frame but I don't think you'll get a 4-stroke in there, 4-strokes pretty much need an S shaped down bar to fit a good base platform in low enough for the engine to fit nice.

Whatever the case, I'm currently performing heavy maintainence on my Raleigh Venture 2.0, due to it not being properly serviced in several years.

Cleaning the gears, chain, cranks & bearings and going to get them all lubed up today.
Hopefully it'll help the components of my amazing ride last longer and we'll be that much closer to a build!
Adam
Click to expand...

That's the ticket, make the bike itself better than new and you have a heck of base for a 2-stroke direct drive or shifter like my example.
 
KCvale said:
Somewhat different frame but I don't think you'll get a 4-stroke in there, 4-strokes pretty much need an S shaped down bar to fit a good base platform in low enough for the engine to fit nice.



That's the ticket, make the bike itself better than new and you have a heck of base for a 2-stroke direct drive or shifter like my example.
Click to expand...

That's the plan, mate! :) Wherever I look, I always notice that the most important step before you motorize your rig is to make sure you have a solid foundation to work off of.

Thus I want to make sure my rig is rock solid and be able to go from there with the knowledge that my ride is more than ready to handle the load and speed an engine will place upon it! :)

A quick question though before I head out again, where would you recommend I obtain my first motor for my build? eBay for some $120 or an online seller (like Bicycle-Motors.com) for around $180 for a Skyhawk 2-Stroke?

Just want to make sure that, while it may be my first build, it's a build where I get the most out of my money & time I put into it. Obviously every component will require maintenance, but that's not where my concern lies since I will be keeping a very heavy level of maintenance on both my rig and motor when they're finally joined together. My big question lies on where I should look to obtain a motor (since in my area I have no access to any local bicycle motor shops).

Thanks again for any advice you can offer, I greatly appreciate it!


~Adam
usflg

Edit:
Purchased a tube of Mystic JT-6 Multi-Purpose Grease at my local Wally to grease the bearings of my wheels and my crankset. Anyone have any history using this kind of grease or any recommendations (will this grease work alright?). Also got a can of WD-40 to help polish off any of the grime that's been left over after I've cleaned the gears. Will be greasing up my gears and crankset after I clean them all thoroughly tomorrow (had to put off the cleaning due to not having any grease readily available).
 
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Adam,
I just wanted to comment on what I see as a healthy, positive approach to your first motorbike. You are asking the right questions, listening to the answers, giving them your consideration, understand the importance of "foundation" and seeing to the maintenance of the bike itself. I will be sending you a virtual gold star sticker to place in the center of your forehead. And don't forget to wear a helmet. You sir, are in for a whole lot of fun!
SB
 
That question is too big to answer.
Different sellers add different doo dads with their Chinese motors. They're in different locations, effecting shipping time and cost. There's availability of size/ configuration of motors. There is definitely a customer service issue, and I think this is where you should focus. Even if it took a couple extra days, and cost a couple extra bucks, to be able to call and have a missing piece replaced (for example) is worth it.
You have to decide these things, and the best way to do it is start reading in; "2 Stroke Bicycle Engines and Kits" There are long time members here who have built many Gas-Bikes, and have gotten consistently good service from their vendor.

Good luck!

Also, I concur with SB, you're reading, asking questions, reading etc, is the right way to do it.
 
DemonSlayerz said:
That's the plan, mate! :) Wherever I look, I always notice that the most important step before you motorize your rig is to make sure you have a solid foundation to work off of.

Thus I want to make sure my rig is rock solid and be able to go from there with the knowledge that my ride is more than ready to handle the load and speed an engine will place upon it! :)
Click to expand...

Outstanding philosophy bud, just do it right from the get go.

A quick question though before I head out again, where would you recommend I obtain my first motor for my build? eBay for some $120 or an online seller (like Bicycle-Motors.com) for around $180 for a Skyhawk 2-Stroke?
Click to expand...

I have always been a fan of the Yang Dong (Skyhawk) engine factories work and use them when available, one bonus part was the 2.5L tanks opposed the typical 2L tanks but it's the quality casting, bearings, etc I liked best.

If you REALLY want to learn what everything is inside a 2-stroke engine get this $100 'engine parts' kit.

http://www.gasbike.net/66cc-racing-engine-build.html

This is all you get for assembly instructions and they left out some really important things like the sprocket keyways and seals, but one heck of an animated video of where stuff goes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYcbPD5r-0o

Unless you are a 'Rocky' fan, turn the sound off hehe ;-}

Then just get the parts you want to mount it on your bike and make it go.
 
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silverbear said:
Adam,
I just wanted to comment on what I see as a healthy, positive approach to your first motorbike. You are asking the right questions, listening to the answers, giving them your consideration, understand the importance of "foundation" and seeing to the maintenance of the bike itself. I will be sending you a virtual gold star sticker to place in the center of your forehead. And don't forget to wear a helmet. You sir, are in for a whole lot of fun!
SB
Click to expand...

Thanks for the kind words, SB. I always find that the best way to do things right the first time is to ask experienced people's opinions and basing your decisions off of previous experience as opposed to mere hunches. :)

Hopefully I'll be able to get everything taken care of soon and have my motor within my hands sometime at the beginning of February. We shall see. Right now, just fixin' on greasing my wheel bearings, buying new treads for my tires & going to polish up my sprockets and entire crankset ~ hopefully my rig will be running better than ever after that!

Also plan on budgeting in a heavier helmet when I finally get that engine in place. Safety is always first on my priority list ~ how can I enjoy my engine if I'm no longer around to ride it? :P

Thank for all the tips! I greatly appreciate it!


I have always been a fan of the Yang Dong (Skyhawk) engine factories work and use them when available, one bonus part was the 2.5L tanks opposed the typical 2L tanks but it's the quality casting, bearings, etc I liked best.

If you REALLY want to learn what everything is inside a 2-stroke engine get this $100 'engine parts' kit.

http://www.gasbike.net/66cc-racing-engine-build.html

This is all you get for assembly instructions and they left out some really important things like the sprocket keyways and seals, but one heck of an animated video of where stuff goes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYcbPD5r-0o

Unless you are a 'Rocky' fan, turn the sound off hehe ;-}

Then just get the parts you want to mount it on your bike and make it go.
Click to expand...

While I was looking at that kit on gasbike.net, I noticed that it's only the engine and nothing more. Thus I realized, I could mount it but would be forking over another $100+ to get all the necessary components to mount said engine to my bike securely. So, if I'm going to spend that much, I would prefer to spend the totaled amount first on a vendor who returns my emails in no less than a 24 hour time-span. :)

Just like Trey said, it's always worth paying a little extra cash for that added bonus of knowing that, be it by phone or by email, you will be able to get in touch with a real, living & breathing human being. Sometimes a question needs to be answered immediately, and when that time comes for me, I'd like to know that my vendor will be there by my side... not running away with my money in hand laughing. lol

In any case, I will keep you up to date on how my projects are looking. Finished lubing up my front tire bearings today, so I'm going to try to work out time to finish up my bikes rear tires tomorrow before I have to work and take her out for a test-drive ~ couple miles. :)

Will keep you all notified if anything changes! Thanks again for all the advice! :D


Sincerely,
Adam
usflg
 
I think you can get a 2 stoke center mount in that frame however, you might have to mount it in a slightly different position than the one in the picture that KCvale posted unless you plan on buying a shift kit like the one in the picture.
 
Tyler6357 said:
I think you can get a 2 stoke center mount in that frame however, you might have to mount it in a slightly different position than the one in the picture that KCvale posted unless you plan on buying a shift kit like the one in the picture.
Click to expand...

While I would love to get a shifting kit, or a jackshaft kit, at this time I think it best if I wait till I have a motor mounted to my bike &, having memorized all the components and upgraded the China hardware to USA Grade 8 hardware, then delving deeper into the endless amounts of modifications available for a 2 Smoker! :)
 
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