Cooper & Ludwig
- Thread starter Ludwig II
- Start date
The Cooper & Ludwig Manufactory's Work In Progress. The pics with the engine on, the support is held up at the back with bits of metal on the tyre. The proper struts will be fitted once we find the right sort of scrap metal from somewhere. Picture 3 shows Cooperhuman pointing at the engine mount in case you didn't know what one looked like.
Attachments
Last edited:
Purty cool, Lud. Really like your mount. Clean, simple and adaptive.
lol @ "human cooper" (the phrasing. Not the good Mr. Cooper) Ya keep making me think of Douglas Adams
lol @ "human cooper" (the phrasing. Not the good Mr. Cooper) Ya keep making me think of Douglas Adams
It's been an education in how hard it is to make something minimal that works. The next bit is to make the upright from the back wheel spindle to the chain reduction box. That will take the tension load between the sprockets and remove the need to resist torsion in the rest of the engine mounts.
Hello there,
I am not interested practically too much in motorised bicycles (on two wheels!) even I adore them, being too old for adventures and needing more stabilized vehicle with two seats - for me and my wife... However, many ideas and solutions found here could be of interest in possibly future project for motorisation of my present HPV-quadricycle... So, I will have some questions, the first about some qualifications of systems and after that about practical value of some solutions. Gathered sentences that interest me:
Ludwig: … I'm trying to work out a drive system as simple as a friction driver without the wet slip problem ...
Ludwig: ... And I just reinvented a direct cog drive to a wheel ...
Cannon-Ball: ... Glue a matching single sided belt to the inside of the rim ...
Cannon-Ball: ... Use a Kevlar belt (Polychain GT is one) and I doubt you will ever wear it out, they are used in many applications, but the most demanding is in gravel processing machinery. They out last chains ...
About friction drive there are a lot of dilemmas, even it is the most simple solution and often use. I had experience with Velo-Solex, from some 4 decades ago. As I wasn't satisfied a lot with it, my brother pressed entire component to front tyre and fixed it with bolts: so - no more moving up and down. Improvement was significant, but even then - friction wheel was slipping over tyre when the ride was over wet asphalt. Maybe reason was my weight (around 85 kg) and bold Michelin tyre?
If I understand well, “one-side cog belt” should be something as “toothed-belt” for OHC engines – as on attached photos? If one is used glued on additional rim (used as pulley) and the same as power-belt: then, there is transmission with similar performances as chain and sprockets? So, there shouldn't be any problems with transmitting power on wheel – no slipping?
With power on both rear wheels – system should be more effective (for quadricycle)?
Still some time to think until decision. So, I will follow works of all you with practical experience with motorized bicycles - on two, three or four wheels.
I am not interested practically too much in motorised bicycles (on two wheels!) even I adore them, being too old for adventures and needing more stabilized vehicle with two seats - for me and my wife... However, many ideas and solutions found here could be of interest in possibly future project for motorisation of my present HPV-quadricycle... So, I will have some questions, the first about some qualifications of systems and after that about practical value of some solutions. Gathered sentences that interest me:
Ludwig: … I'm trying to work out a drive system as simple as a friction driver without the wet slip problem ...
Ludwig: ... And I just reinvented a direct cog drive to a wheel ...
Cannon-Ball: ... Glue a matching single sided belt to the inside of the rim ...
Cannon-Ball: ... Use a Kevlar belt (Polychain GT is one) and I doubt you will ever wear it out, they are used in many applications, but the most demanding is in gravel processing machinery. They out last chains ...
About friction drive there are a lot of dilemmas, even it is the most simple solution and often use. I had experience with Velo-Solex, from some 4 decades ago. As I wasn't satisfied a lot with it, my brother pressed entire component to front tyre and fixed it with bolts: so - no more moving up and down. Improvement was significant, but even then - friction wheel was slipping over tyre when the ride was over wet asphalt. Maybe reason was my weight (around 85 kg) and bold Michelin tyre?
If I understand well, “one-side cog belt” should be something as “toothed-belt” for OHC engines – as on attached photos? If one is used glued on additional rim (used as pulley) and the same as power-belt: then, there is transmission with similar performances as chain and sprockets? So, there shouldn't be any problems with transmitting power on wheel – no slipping?
With power on both rear wheels – system should be more effective (for quadricycle)?
Still some time to think until decision. So, I will follow works of all you with practical experience with motorized bicycles - on two, three or four wheels.
Attachments
This is meandering off topic, but this Italian Alkro used a toothed wheel and an engine driven sprocket/cog/gear. It was a noisy way to drive a bike, but simple. The engine was a Bernardi, which I only knew before this as a friction driver.
Timing belts are best at high speeds. Generally the width is wider than chain for a given torque. The GEBE kits are well known for shredding Kevlar HTD belts because they skipped the design manual. A 15mm wide belt with a minimum size driver is rated below 2 horsepower. Here is the book if you are interested:
http://www.gates.com/~/media/Files/Gates/Industrial/Power%20Transmission/Manuals/PowerGripDriveDesignManual_17195_2014.pdf
About page 45 are the power tables.
I would look at 35 chain for the pocket bike drives, or even the 8mm stuff some of them came with.
I managed to get a 35 chain and a 203mm brake disc all working inside a pair of forks:
That is a pocket bike CVT & 49cc piston port engine on my 29'er
35 chain does a fine job,even with my 16 stone on the seat post...
B
Ta, I'll save the rating page to The Thinking Machine.
Can you tell me what the clutch bite point is on your bike? We're interested to know if we need to pedal to help our minimoto engines start off, or we can just wind them up and go.
Can you tell me what the clutch bite point is on your bike? We're interested to know if we need to pedal to help our minimoto engines start off, or we can just wind them up and go.
Last edited:
Ain't there a shed load to read? I have seen Golden Eagle kits, and always thought the belt looked too thin. You don't have to go massively wide on the belt, just have a big enough driving sprocket. If the Golden Eagles are trying to do the reduction drive in one step, that would explain the tiny drive sprocket they use, and the occasional adverse comment I have seen.
Yes, a lot of reading - but that is what GEBE should have done. They have 50% of the minimum tooth count on the driver, and half the belt width that the calculations suggest.
As for the pocket bike clutches...
I am running the two shoe clutch on the piston port engine. Your reed valve engines have 3 shoes. I don't know how much of a difference that will really make, since the original application was the same.
My clutch stalls @ 5400 against a locked brake. The CVT is currently beginning to up shift about 5600. i need to adjust the roller weight about 20%, so it up shifts a little later. After it pulls to 17:1 overall @ 5800 or so, it pulls all the way to 7500.
The engine is still breaking in. I ran it for about 5 minutes the night I finished it & loaded it on the truck. I broke it in the next day on the race track, running a couple of laps & letting it cool. After 4 laps I leaned it out a little. & ran a couple more. Then it was two 6 lap heats, and an 8 lap main mostly at WOT.
I find that a few strokes with the pedals helps with the launch, perhaps 5 revolutions of the cranks.
It is reliable, a couple of pulls & off you go. With only a gallon through it so far, the plug is light tan @ 24:1 Out of the box stock with the chinese air cleaner & box sheetmetal muffler. Your CAG engines have the reed advantge, and expansion chambers.
Now that we are cooling off here I will start stacking up some miles, and see how it is long term.
B
As for the pocket bike clutches...
I am running the two shoe clutch on the piston port engine. Your reed valve engines have 3 shoes. I don't know how much of a difference that will really make, since the original application was the same.
My clutch stalls @ 5400 against a locked brake. The CVT is currently beginning to up shift about 5600. i need to adjust the roller weight about 20%, so it up shifts a little later. After it pulls to 17:1 overall @ 5800 or so, it pulls all the way to 7500.
The engine is still breaking in. I ran it for about 5 minutes the night I finished it & loaded it on the truck. I broke it in the next day on the race track, running a couple of laps & letting it cool. After 4 laps I leaned it out a little. & ran a couple more. Then it was two 6 lap heats, and an 8 lap main mostly at WOT.
I find that a few strokes with the pedals helps with the launch, perhaps 5 revolutions of the cranks.
It is reliable, a couple of pulls & off you go. With only a gallon through it so far, the plug is light tan @ 24:1 Out of the box stock with the chinese air cleaner & box sheetmetal muffler. Your CAG engines have the reed advantge, and expansion chambers.
Now that we are cooling off here I will start stacking up some miles, and see how it is long term.
B
Better change the gearing then. The CAG engines need to spin about 7k to be happy. CAG owners drill the clutch shoes to get them to hit above 6500.
With 26" tires, about 24:1 overall should be close to what you want. that would have the clutch locked about 18mph.
.
I had been wondering where to get a tank that will be in character for the Mk2, and it turns out there's a local-ish monkey bike shop that has interesting stuff:
http://www.shirebikes.co.uk/collections/fuel-tanks
I'll do some pondering about an aluminium or the steel Dax tank, both have advantages.
http://www.shirebikes.co.uk/collections/fuel-tanks
I'll do some pondering about an aluminium or the steel Dax tank, both have advantages.
I have to find out if the bike is valuable and should not be hacked about; if it isn't, then it will probably have the frame cut, bent, and the engine inserted low down, and an alloy tank just above it. Valuable, it will have a steel one mounted higher up, with the engine clamped in place.
I looked around and the cost was all over, Curt.
I used this search; https://www.google.com/search?q=shi...=international+shipping+calculator+comparison
I used this search; https://www.google.com/search?q=shi...=international+shipping+calculator+comparison