Im Going Legal in PA
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Actually from what I've been told is that driving is actually a right. Believe it or not. It is the 'license' that is a privelege. According to the constitution you have the right to travel freely on roads. I know because someone I know (who is very smart with legal stuff) told me this and went to court to have all this bypassed. It is once you sign the papers for getting your license that it becomes a privelege and that is a Contract that you are binding into. So if you signed that contract (which I've signed it too, i'm not going through all the court crap) then it has become a privelege for you.
Thanks for the info, i'll give Geico a call.
Thanks for that info I didn't know that, Travel freely, as in you can walk around or by horseback, it seems once you add an engine or motor the rules change.
I called Geico and they said they don't do coverage for motorized bikes. Anyone else that you can recommend? I already had my agent call a few other places.
Yeah, if you call geico and say motorized bike, they're like, "Whhaaatt?!?!?!?" Call them up and say moped, and then they know what you're talking about. But the bike has to be titled and registered before you can get insurance.
That's kind of what I figured. My question is how do I get it titled that way. And how do I get it titled at all without a VIN. How do I get a VIN generated? There is only a S/N.
When you fill out the title request, you put the bike's serial number where it says vin. You have to take the bike to a garage that does enhanced vehicle inspections. When the bike passes the inspection, you take the inspection form and the title request and have them notarized, then send them into the dmv. I suggest you pm one of the guys that does have their bike registered if you have any other questions.
Why a PM and not a reply?
And also, a question to a post made earlier in this thread...
Where should it be registered? To the normal place where you car gets registered or to the National Bike Registry?
Another question, is it really going to cost me $500 in all the proper paper work and parts? Or how much approx.? I also must add that I am not a mechanical person. I bought this bike. I did not build it. So any upgrades, I would be paying someone to do.
And also, a question to a post made earlier in this thread...
Where should it be registered? To the normal place where you car gets registered or to the National Bike Registry?
Another question, is it really going to cost me $500 in all the proper paper work and parts? Or how much approx.? I also must add that I am not a mechanical person. I bought this bike. I did not build it. So any upgrades, I would be paying someone to do.
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Actually, I just did the research myself and found that that is about the right price. And mainly the biggest problem is that there is no VIN. In order to get the registration, I have to first have a VIN, which means I have to have an MV41 form filled out by an Enhanced Vehicle Inspection. Which means it has to pass everything in Sub Chapter J.
I'm not sure who around here is going to do all that work for me. It's going to be difficult finding parts. It's going to be expensive as heck. Half the cost of the bike.
With that being said, I've decided my best option is to sell it.
Anyone want to buy it? (I'll post it in the Sell Swap category)
I'm not sure who around here is going to do all that work for me. It's going to be difficult finding parts. It's going to be expensive as heck. Half the cost of the bike.
With that being said, I've decided my best option is to sell it.
Anyone want to buy it? (I'll post it in the Sell Swap category)
Now I am seeing the other side of it. After researching for a week and a half, I understand that they ARE legal and without registration. Here's what I see after talking to a different cop...
DMV Code Title 75
Chapter 1, Section 102
Motor driven cycle: not to exceed 5 brake horsepower
Motorized pedacycle: not to exceed 1.5 brake horsepower or 50 cc, and has pedals, etc.
Chapter 11, Section 1102
Vehicles not requiring certificate of title
(2) motor driver cycle or other similar vehicle UNLESS IT IS registered.
Chapter 13, Section 1301
Registration and certificate of title required
( c) No vehicle shall be registered unless a certificate of title has been applied for or issued IF ONE IF REQUIRED by Chapter 11.
Chapter 15, Section 1504
(d) (3) (iv) Holder of Class C license shall be authorized to drive a motor-driven cycle with automatic transmission and cylinder capacity not exceeding 50 cubic centimeters.
Chapter 47, Section 4703
(a) no motor vehicle required to bear current registration plates...
(b) Exceptions (6) Motorized pedacycle
Sub Chapter J
(at the very end...) (e) Exemption - a motorized pedacycle is exempt from inspection.
Now, after all this. My two questions are is that if a moto bike is exempt from inspection, then that means it should automatically pass inspection, right? If you wanted to go that route of getting it passed as a Moped. The other thing is that it mentions more about 'motor driven cycles' more so than it does 'motorized pedacycles'. But motor driven cycles says not exceeding brake horsepower. Which should fit that definition as well, right?
DMV Code Title 75
Chapter 1, Section 102
Motor driven cycle: not to exceed 5 brake horsepower
Motorized pedacycle: not to exceed 1.5 brake horsepower or 50 cc, and has pedals, etc.
Chapter 11, Section 1102
Vehicles not requiring certificate of title
(2) motor driver cycle or other similar vehicle UNLESS IT IS registered.
Chapter 13, Section 1301
Registration and certificate of title required
( c) No vehicle shall be registered unless a certificate of title has been applied for or issued IF ONE IF REQUIRED by Chapter 11.
Chapter 15, Section 1504
(d) (3) (iv) Holder of Class C license shall be authorized to drive a motor-driven cycle with automatic transmission and cylinder capacity not exceeding 50 cubic centimeters.
Chapter 47, Section 4703
(a) no motor vehicle required to bear current registration plates...
(b) Exceptions (6) Motorized pedacycle
Sub Chapter J
(at the very end...) (e) Exemption - a motorized pedacycle is exempt from inspection.
Now, after all this. My two questions are is that if a moto bike is exempt from inspection, then that means it should automatically pass inspection, right? If you wanted to go that route of getting it passed as a Moped. The other thing is that it mentions more about 'motor driven cycles' more so than it does 'motorized pedacycles'. But motor driven cycles says not exceeding brake horsepower. Which should fit that definition as well, right?
The inspection required for registration is called an Enhanced Vehicle Inspection, which is how they determine if the vehicle is roadworthy and meets all DOT requirements for registered vehicles. Motorized bicycles being registered as mopeds are exempt from YEARLY inspection, NOT the enhanced inspection. However, if I am reading this post correctly, any engine which can be defined as a motorized pedalcycle (basically a motorized bicycle under 50cc) is exempt from registration?
Looks like the law has been changed. The new definition of a moped is this:
MOPED DEFINITION: A motor-driven cycle equipped with operable pedals, a motor rated no more than 1.5 brake horsepower, a cylinder capacity not exceeding 50 cubic centimeters, an automatic transmission, and a maximum design speed of no more than 25 miles per hour, or an electric motor-driven cycle equipped with operable pedals and powered by an electric battery. CRITERIA: 1. Engine may not exceed 50 cubic centimeters. 2. Engine may not exceed 1.5 brake horsepower rating. 3. Operable pedals required. 4. Automatic transmission required. 5. Design speed may not be more than 25 miles per hour. 6. Does not require inspection. 7. Moped plate issued. 8. Annual registration fee is $9. 9. No helmet or eye protection required for driver. 10. Class C, Non-Commercial Driver’s License required
This defines anything with pedals and a gas or electric motor as a moped, which requires a class c license, title, registration, plate and insurance.
MOPED DEFINITION: A motor-driven cycle equipped with operable pedals, a motor rated no more than 1.5 brake horsepower, a cylinder capacity not exceeding 50 cubic centimeters, an automatic transmission, and a maximum design speed of no more than 25 miles per hour, or an electric motor-driven cycle equipped with operable pedals and powered by an electric battery. CRITERIA: 1. Engine may not exceed 50 cubic centimeters. 2. Engine may not exceed 1.5 brake horsepower rating. 3. Operable pedals required. 4. Automatic transmission required. 5. Design speed may not be more than 25 miles per hour. 6. Does not require inspection. 7. Moped plate issued. 8. Annual registration fee is $9. 9. No helmet or eye protection required for driver. 10. Class C, Non-Commercial Driver’s License required
This defines anything with pedals and a gas or electric motor as a moped, which requires a class c license, title, registration, plate and insurance.
That definition was taken from the pa dmv moped, motor-driven cycle and motorcycle fact sheet, updated february of this year. Here is a link to the page where I found this: http://www.dmv.state.pa.us/registration/scooters.shtml where it says For More Information, there is a link to a fact sheet in pdf form. There is no more grey area.
now thats a little ray of sunshine !!
thank you bbb for digging up that link , it has every thing i needed to plus a lil more
thank you bbb for digging up that link , it has every thing i needed to plus a lil more
I dug up information too.
But that definition you mention on MOPEDs brings us back to square one. What you are saying is that MOPEDs need registration. You can not get registration without a VIN. And in order to get a VIN, it needs to pass the one time inspection. Unless you're saying (like before) to just use the S/N for the VIN. Which I doubt would work.
But that definition you mention on MOPEDs brings us back to square one. What you are saying is that MOPEDs need registration. You can not get registration without a VIN. And in order to get a VIN, it needs to pass the one time inspection. Unless you're saying (like before) to just use the S/N for the VIN. Which I doubt would work.
No. What I'm saying is that anything with pedals and a motor IS a moped. And as I said before, when you fill out the title request form, you put THE BIKE"S SERIAL NUMBER AS THE VIN. The process is very simple. You put whatever needs to go on the bike to meet DOT requirements. Then you take it to a garage that does enhanced inspections. If it passes, you take the inspection form and have it notarized. Then you send the notarized inspection form in with a title request form. You put the bike's serial number as the VIN. Have a plate made up with the vin stamped in and attach it to the bike. Once you get a title, then you are now able to register the bike. I have explained this to you several times. ANYTHING with operable pedals and a gas motor under 50cc's or an electric motor IS A MOPED in Pennsylvania. Register your bike or don't, but let's not debate the law anymore. If you want to argue if your bike is a moped or not, argue with the next cop who pulls you over.
Everyone else who has registered a motorized bicycle in PA has used the bike's serial number as the vin. Whether it seems like it would/should work or not, it has. And it actually does make sense if you think about it. How does a car get a vin? The manufacturer stamps it into the dashboard and several other places. And bicycles conveniently already have a number stamped into them as well. What better number to use as a vin? Let's say your bike gets stolen after you register it, and the thief removes the license plate and the vin plate if you attach one. Since the bike's serial number is the vin, and you have a copy of the registration and the registration has the vin number on it, the bike can still be identified once it is located, because the vin is stamped into the frame.
So to clarify, you could bend the law by adding a larger engine to your motorized bicycle AFTER the one time enhanced inspection but then your bike would technically be illegal on the streets. If you obeyed the 25 mph limit on these around town or cops they would most likely never know I guess.
I'm thinking of building a board track style bike using a modified frame and I want to actually use it the thing! With these restrictions, I'm not sure its worth it. I've found that keeping things legal with licensing really lets you enjoy whatever it is (fishing, inspections, etc.) without the stress of getting caught. What do you guys think? worth it? thanks
I'm thinking of building a board track style bike using a modified frame and I want to actually use it the thing! With these restrictions, I'm not sure its worth it. I've found that keeping things legal with licensing really lets you enjoy whatever it is (fishing, inspections, etc.) without the stress of getting caught. What do you guys think? worth it? thanks