First time builder and wont first time start. pls help me

[ALcycle]

hello, thank you for this wonderful forum.

i am at a loss. i have read a bunch of threads about starting problems. i have address them all and no boom boom.

heres what ive done:

got spark, good spark.
sealed carb to intake.
adjusted needle
got a bell full of fuel
took off air filter
.sooo, the motor cranks, the sprk plug sparks, the fuel is there, no boom boom

full choke- no, half - no. open choke no, full throttle, half throttle, no throttle---
hours of tries, nothing......OK, lets try.......

starter spray, please ether......NO

if i got spark, why wont the ether at least fire it for a little, assuming its not getting fuel (i think it is)?

what the ****, lets try another spark plug, even though the first was sparking, the second one also sparks.....NOTHING

Anyone have any ideas for me, i have been so excited to get a lil vroom vroom, and it i just get a me power engine.

i appreciate in advance any help.

 

[rustycase]

Al, it would be good if you would post all the info about your motor and stuff...

Is your motor timed properly? would be the only thing I could think of without more info.

Best
rc

 

[Len455]

Is the spark plug wet after you try starting it? Have you opened up the engine and check all of that? I supose there could be to little compression.

 

[dragray]

it's possible that your magneto was installed 180 degrees off.
in this case, you'd still get spark, but you'd get it when the piston is at bottm dead center, not top dead center.
the plug should spark when the piston is at the top of the cylinder, not at the bottom.
it's very difficult to check this because you have to spin the engine over with the spark plug out, and try to determine if it's sparking when the piston is at the top or the bottom.
or you could just pull your magneto off, rotate it 180 degrees and see if it starts.
you have fuel, you have spark, you have compression, you have air, it should run.
but if the timing is 180 degrees off, it'll never even try to run.

 

[Ibedayank]

dragray
care to explain how you can install it 180 degrees out when its on a keyway with a woodruff key that only goes on one way???

 

[ALcycle]

i really dont know what it is specifically. I got it from boy goes fast.com. seems like the regular cheap china kit. i thought it could be a timing issue. i will try some flipping. once i figure out how....

thanks

 

[ALcycle]

the spark plug does not seem to be wet. and open up the engine and check all what?

 

[Ibedayank]

These motors take some messing with the choke to get them to run when cold.
Your dealing with a china copy of a 1930s russian motor made from melted down beercans and coathangers. If you wanted something that starts on the first pull or kick you should have bought a honda. We need pictures to help you more!!!!

 

[ALcycle]

did i say, i tried to kick it over once and it didnt start, so i came running here???? NO, i said i have tried many times, with "messing" with the choke.

 

[Ibedayank]

heres the facts jack...
motor needs fuel air compression spark to run

the timing is NOT adjustable
if your plug is dry your not getting gas has NOTHING to do with timing

did you put gas in the tank mixed with 2cycle oil at 20-1 ratio?
did you put a fuel filter between the tank and carb?
before you connected the gasline to the carb did you open the petcock to see if you had good gas flow into a catch container?

 

[dragray]

dragray
care to explain how you can install it 180 degrees out when its on a keyway with a woodruff key that only goes on one way???

if the magnet was installed backwards (i.e. flipped over) wouldn't the timing be 180 off ? (well, maybe not 180 off to be exact) since the keyway is "timed", if it was installed backwards that "timing" would be way off.
look at the pic, the key slot is not in the center. imagine the magnet installed flipped over.....the timing would be off.

 

[dragray]

ok, we're getting somewhere.
he said that the plug does not seem to be wet after trying to start it.
It is possible that the float is stuck, causing the needle & seat to be stuck closed....no fuel in the float bowl.

 

[Al.Fisherman]

Al, it would be good if you would post all the info about your motor and stuff...
Is your motor timed properly? would be the only thing I could think of without more info.Bestrc

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aBeJuoS--VQWwXysc07rpscTUbPzgc93xjiQBgsyFjc/edit

If you have good spark, and the compression is above 100psi, and it won't start using starting fluid, the most two probable causes are 1) timing wrong....
http://s982.photobucket.com/albums/ae309/Ron-Becker/Magnetto/
or 2) you have a excessive vacuum leak. There has been cases that this has happened.

Have you ever had or seen the engine running?

ok, we're getting somewhere.
he said that the plug does not seem to be wet after trying to start it.
It is possible that the float is stuck, causing the needle & seat to be stuck closed....no fuel in the float bowl.

The bike could nave nare a drop of gas, and when using starting fluid/throttle body cleaner...It WILL start, but not for long.

 

[dragray]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aBeJuoS--VQWwXysc07rpscTUbPzgc93xjiQBgsyFjc/edit

If you have good spark, and the compression is above 100psi, and it won't start using starting fluid, the most two probable causes are 1) timing wrong....
http://s982.photobucket.com/albums/ae309/Ron-Becker/Magnetto/
or 2) you have a excessive vacuum leak. There has been cases that this has happened.

hmmm, someone else that agrees that it could be a timing issue.
seems to me that I do know what i'm talking about after all.
too bad that some others don't seem to think that I know what i'm talking about.

 

[Al.Fisherman]

hmmm, someone else that agrees that it could be a timing issue.
seems to me that I do know what i'm talking about after all.
too bad that some others don't seem to think that I know what i'm talking about.

Timing wrong has happened more times then I care to think about. It's so simple to reverse the magnet without ever thinking about it. In this care your 100% correct in suspecting a timing issue. Not saying it is, but a probable cause, if he has never had it running.

 

[Len455]

Sounds like your not getting fuel. (although it could be timing this is easy to start with.) use this to go over your carb and make sure everythings like it should. http://motorbicycling.com/showthread.php?t=195 like was said make sure your petcock is flowing and also make sure the filter is flowing to. If this works and your spark plug is wet after you try to start it then go onto the timing issue. Good luck

 

[rustycase]

dragray
care to explain how you can install it 180 degrees out when its on a keyway with a woodruff key that only goes on one way???

How can a production factory ship a motor without the woodruff key?

Got one here.
rc

 

[Al.Fisherman]

How can a production factory ship a motor without the woodruff key?

Got one here.
rc

Although it has never happened to me, but it's very easy...Just read the thread about the CNS-V3 carburetor.
http://motorbicycling.com/showthread.php?t=38423
Maybe some 6 yo Chinese girl trying to screw with the Americans, who knows? The key in the magnet would be the easiest, as none of keys are held in tight, and can come out very easily. So there are possibilities, the key was missing, magnet on backwards, or a sheared key. If this is a engine the OP got from someone else then nothing would surprise me.

 

[rustycase]

I think Len may have it... the right question...

Here's the circumstance described at the crime scene:

"got spark, good spark.
sealed carb to intake.
adjusted needle
got a bell full of fuel
took off air filter
.sooo, the motor cranks, the sprk plug sparks, the fuel is there, no boom boom

full choke- no, half - no. open choke no, full throttle, half throttle, no throttle---"

I'm was guessing 'bell' means bowl, and 'the fuel is there' means in the cylinder, on the plug. But it doesn't say that!

Len asked the right question. Is the plug wet?

I really enjoy trying to sort out these problems thru the keyboard!
It's a real challenge.
rc

 

[dragray]

How can a production factory ship a motor without the woodruff key?

Got one here.
rc

no one ever said that it was shipped without the woodruff key (unless you got one without a key).
don't forget these things are assembled by people probably making $3.00 an hour.....do they really care how they get thrown together? probably not.