FL

[biknut]

Good job Arnett. It looks like you'll probably go down in Florida history as the catalyst that opened Florida up to gas powered MBs.

you can beat this easy. Just claim to the court that this statute doesn't apply to your motor bicycle because you have to peddle it from a stop. What 316.003 B is describing is a self propelled vehicle. Something that can drive off under it's own power. Yours cannot.

What are you talking about self propelled??

The moped statute and conjecture of this "self propelled" has nothing to do with legality on roads..

The idea of "self-propelled" is a moot point.

I rally wish this "self propelled" stretch would be put to rest.

Also the argument that they are not motor vehicles does not hold water.

I was referred twice down the line to a sgt Jones.

When we spoke he mentioned that they were motor vehicles and I asked why he was stating that. His answer was because they were self propelled.

Now I think we all can now see why the issue of self propelled is important. That's always going to be the states argument in court. I can beat that easy as pie. I would just offer to let the prosecutor go out in the parking lot, and show the jury how my MB is self propelled by riding off from a stop without peddling, and good luck with that lol hahahaha.

That's why they're going to dismiss any challenge. If they lose in court it sets precedent for the state. All you need to win is courage to plead not guilty, and the knowledge that your MB isn't self propelled and why that is.

This same defense will probably work in any state that lacks specific dedicated laws for MBs like Florida, and Texas, if the law defines a motor vehicle as self propelled. Study your motor vehicle laws.

 

[James912]

Nice way of putting it biknut. Now i know for sure i have a defense. Ony got like 8 days till my court date.

 

[worksmanFL]

Nice way of putting it biknut. Now i know for sure i have a defense. Ony got like 8 days till my court date.

Good Luck!

"If it doesn't fit, you MUST acquit!!!"

- quote from (the late) Attorney Johnnny Cochran

 

[motorbiker]

Merriam-Webster's Learner's Dictionary

http://www.google.com/search?q=self...gc.r_pw.&fp=cf799297008d2d18&biw=1016&bih=563

Noun 1. self-propelled vehicle - a wheeled vehicle that carries in itself a means of propulsion

Seems to be what most believe it to mean.

 

[James912]

Will do, worksman. Can't wait to be able to ride without having to slink around town keepin' an eye out for the po po. I ride these motorized bicycles cuz they can take dirt roads, hills, bumps, without wearing me out. Most of my friends live way out in the boonies on dirt roads, so i wanted something that'll get me there. These kits are it. After i got that ticket, on the way home, i decided to try the engine out on a dirt road, and boy it digs a a rut and it moves along. Talkin' about fun! These are great motors for crusing down the beach in the sand. Then i tried to pedal without the engine...didn't get 5 ft before i was huffing and puffing and ready to collapse. My clutch cable had slipped before i got the ticket so i had to force the engine on, and i couldn't even start it again after i tried it on the dirt road cuz i was so exhausted. lol So....yeah, i really like these mab's. I'm thinkin' about switching to a staton inc. rear friction drive, but i don't know if it can get me down the dirt roads. It'll get me up hills with a little human assist easy enough.

 

[Arnett Motor Bikes]

WEAR ABC 3 :: Top Stories - Motorized Bicycles Illegal?

 

[biknut]

Would have been a nice time to bring up why they're legal, and the fact that the state has already lost in court.

Why's the stinkin cop talking about someone riding across the street without looking? What's that got to do with a MB? I think they're running scared.

 

[joabthebugman]

But once again Biknut ignores the fact that many here dispute his claim that these bikes can not be driven off from a stop. As I have repeatedly said and he has repeatedly simply ignored I do it all the time, certainly more than not.
But go ahead and use a lie as a defense I hear judges love that

But I till maintain that even if it did not that would not exclude it from being considered self propelled. I may have missed it but I have seen no scientific or legal documentation to support BK's claim

 

[joabthebugman]

But once again Biknut ignores the fact that many here dispute his claim that these bikes can not be driven off from a stop. As I have repeatedly said and he has repeatedly simply ignored I do it all the time, certainly more than not.
But go ahead and use a lie as a defense I hear judges love that

But I till maintain that even if it did not that would not exclude it from being considered self propelled. I may have missed it but I have seen no scientific or legal documentation to support BK's claim

 

[DuctTapedGoat]

You can run it from a stop.

You can smoke too - doesn't mean it's healthy for your body.

We "can" do a lot of things, doesn't mean they're good to do.

 

[biknut]

This is the deal. Some MBs will start from a dead stop, and some won't. It depends on how much power you have, what your gearing is, and some other stuff. Technically speaking if you can drive off from a dead stop without peddling, your bike isn't going to be legal, because then it would be a moped by definition. Self propelled

But I can honestly say the Atomic BB 48cc, which I say runs great, and will do 30 mph on a flat, will not start off from a dead stop on it's own power without burning out a clutch first. I have to peddle it up to about 6 or 7 mph before I can let out the clutch all the way, and even then it's hard on it. 10 mph is better. If you try to let the clutch out sooner it would kill the motor because it doesn't make enough power to run at that engine speed. I can tell you even weak as that sounds, it's still big fun to ride.

Ok, my bike is legal, but yours isn't, because you are clever with porting, and you can blueprint a motor, and you know about gearing.

But there's no official definition of a motor bicycle right now, or a way to test them, so as long as my MB is legal, someone will have to prove yours isn't. They'll probably leave you/us alone for a while.

 

[joabthebugman]

This is the deal. Some MBs will start from a dead stop, and some won't. It depends on how much power you have, what your gearing is, and some other stuff. Technically speaking if you can drive off from a dead stop without peddling, your bike isn't going to be legal, because then it would be a moped by definition. Self propelled

But I can honestly say the Atomic BB 48cc, which I say runs great, and will do 30 mph on a flat, will not start off from a dead stop on it's own power without burning out a clutch first. I have to peddle it up to about 6 or 7 mph before I can let out the clutch all the way, and even then it's hard on it. 10 mph is better. If you try to let the clutch out sooner it would kill the motor because it doesn't make enough power to run at that engine speed. I can tell you even weak as that sounds, it's still big fun to ride.

Ok, my bike is legal, but yours isn't, because you are clever with porting, and you can blueprint a motor, and you know about gearing.

But there's no official definition of a motor bicycle right now, or a way to test them, so as long as my MB is legal, someone will have to prove yours isn't. They'll probably leave you/us alone for a while.

I have ported nothing, only put a 50cc RAW motor on a second hand single speed cruiser and I have never had to pedal up to any appreciable speed to get it engaged if I did I would send the motor back.I have also built more than a couple of bikes and none of them need to be pedaled off.
And again I say that even if that were not true it would in no way disqualify it as self propelled once the drive system is engaged.
Also again I ask you to show me the legal or scientific documentation or precedence to back up your position

 

[biknut]

I have ported nothing, only put a 50cc RAW motor on a second hand single speed cruiser and I have never had to pedal up to any appreciable speed to get it engaged if I did I would send the motor back.I have also built more than a couple of bikes and none of them need to be pedaled off.
And again I say that even if that were not true it would in no way disqualify it as self propelled once the drive system is engaged.
Also again I ask you to show me the legal or scientific documentation or precedence to back up your position

Until lawmakers actually address MBs, the only documentation we're going to see will come from a court room. Good luck trying to get a trial in court before the case gets dismissed though.

Of course if you get a ticket, you always have the option to stop riding your MB, and just send the money right? That's your advise isn't it lol?

 

[joabthebugman]

Why do you guys always try to twist words when you can not back up your own.

My only "advise" would be to stop making comments you can not back up.
If you re so hard up to see someone use your defense then come here and ride your bike in the same town in front of the same cop instead of trying to con someone else into putting themselves in jeopardy for your amusement

My 'advise" to others is to know the law and follow the law or work to get it changed and certainly to not follow the "advise" of an outhouse lawyer who refuses to back up what he claims is an easy defense with what should be easily obtained documents

There is always the chance that the case will be dropped because for whatever reason the state does not see a benefit in pursuing it.
If James plans on using the defense that a bike that travels under it's own power is not self propelled (even though that is the dictionary definition of self propelled) because one person here can not manage to get his bike to drive off from a stop he should definitely be praying for bigger fish to jump in that county's frying pan

 

[Fulltimer]

Hi guys! I hate to interrupt your discussion. I just want you to know that there is a movement under way to try and get the Florida laws changed and clarified. I have contacted the ABATE's Florida State Legal Counsel for some help. Then if things work out there will be a meeting with an elected official of the state of Florida.

Now, back to your regular scheduled program already in progress.

Terry

 

[joabthebugman]

See that's what we need an honest to goodness move towards changing the laws, not some convoluted plan to try to confound and confuse , and ultimately just piss off, the courts

That would be a much more productive conversation
I for one like the idea of trying to classify them in the same category as electric bikes or MABs

 

[SANGESF]

That would work if we could get them limited to 20mph in some way.. OR change the limit to 25mph for both...
Any faster than that, they'll probably want licensing.

 

[biknut]

Why do you guys always try to twist words when you can not back up your own.

My only "advise" would be to stop making comments you can not back up.
If you re so hard up to see someone use your defense then come here and ride your bike in the same town in front of the same cop instead of trying to con someone else into putting themselves in jeopardy for your amusement

My 'advise" to others is to know the law and follow the law or work to get it changed and certainly to not follow the "advise" of an outhouse lawyer who refuses to back up what he claims is an easy defense with what should be easily obtained documents

There is always the chance that the case will be dropped because for whatever reason the state does not see a benefit in pursuing it.
If James plans on using the defense that a bike that travels under it's own power is not self propelled (even though that is the dictionary definition of self propelled) because one person here can not manage to get his bike to drive off from a stop he should definitely be praying for bigger fish to jump in that county's frying pan

You need to follow your own advise then and learn what the law is. You've already, by your own admission, shown you don't have much of a clue.

Why are you riding a MB since you believe they are illegal motor vehicles in your state?

 

[biknut]

That would work if we could get them limited to 20mph in some way.. OR change the limit to 25mph for both...
Any faster than that, they'll probably want licensing.

A speed limit would be alright. Everything else has one. Just put in the law that the speed limit for a MB is 25 mph, or whatever.

The problem getting a law change is that most scum bag money whore politicians are tone death if you don't put a lot of green in their face. You'll need a lot of help from someone like ABATE. How many MB riders are members? That's kind of a long range plan that could take years.

In the meantime it would be stupid not to try every avenue available if all you need to do is show up in court for a challenge to get a ticket for riding a MB dismissed. Eventually they'll stop writing tickets if they can't get a conviction for them.

 

[decoherence]

You need to follow your own advise then and learn what the law is. You've already, by your own admission, shown you don't have much of a clue.

Why are you riding a MB since you believe they are illegal motor vehicles in your state?

sorry to answer a question for fulltimer.

you also have said quite a few things that show you have no clue.
your second question nails it home.
because the laws just changed earlier this year.
before that gasbikes where allowed & considered just a "bike".

every time you out of stateres interject you derail the conversation.
every time i want to say" hey! the adults are talking!"
do you notice how things are starting to happen?
by people IN florida? by arguing with floridians about their laws, you are a problem not a solution.

we will promise to stay out of your state law conversations.