Gas-Electric Hybrid Bike

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wjliebhauser

wjliebhauser

New Member
Oct 24, 2009
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Boulder City, NV
I searched but did not get a hit on anyone who has done the following: I'm thinking a 2 cycle motored bike, with a front-wheel hub electric motor, and a charging set up (maybe friction off the back wheel or a sprocket driven off the 2 cycle drive chain, Would that not be awesome? Ultimate hybrid power - pedal, gas, or electric, and it would keep itself charged when coasting, pedaling, or running the gas. Has anyone out there tried to build such a machine? I'm looking for experience to avoid spending time on the ideas that DIDN'T work!

"I have not failed 1000 times, I have successfully found 1000 ways not to make a light bubl." T Edison
 
deacon

deacon

minor bike philosopher
Jan 15, 2008
8,114
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north carolina
Think about this: some of the hub motors have regenerative charging. When the bike is coasting or braking the hub becomes a generator. So if that is the case, would it charge if you were not using it, and the gasoline engine was pushing the bike creating a coasting illusion for the hub motor. I don't know for sure but it would seem to work that way. If it did, you would not need a generator at all. Just a hub motor with regenerative coasting/ braking controller.

I have no idea if that would work or not but it seems intuitively that it would.
 
professor

professor

New Member
Oct 14, 2009
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Buffalo ny area
wj, coasting inferrs no drag. Charging would be a drag. Braking is so minimal on a bike that the output is also minimal for regenerative braking.
I am doing a gas/elect. Would never do it if gas bikes were legal here.
My bike isn't fast -around 15 mph, it is powered by a 450w scooter motor and batteries charged by a hf 79 driving a 24v Delco alternator.
 
deacon

deacon

minor bike philosopher
Jan 15, 2008
8,114
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north carolina
a friction drive generator is going to be heavy drag I would think. I would expect that anything regenerative would have drag. Correct me if I'm wrong and I may well be. A friction drive on a scooter motor when coasting if the circuit to the battery were open with a diode in place the motor would switch to a generator mode.

I would think that a hub motor could be made to do that same thing. It wouldn't freewheel but if pushed by a gasoline engine, it should be able to pump some current back into the battery.

I wouldn't be surprised if the brush type hub motors in the hands of an evil genius couldn't be wired to do that. How about having one hub motor on the rear set up as a generator only. And one on the front to be used to pull the bike when the gas engine is shut down. It all sounds rather complicated. Not to mention expensive.

By the way gasoline motors are legal here and I still run an ebike. Just a matter of need I suppose the e-bike fits my needs better. You know less noise, less smoke, and less vibration so less maintenance. If I needed more power it would be a different thing entirely.. I have lately been testing a 24v system after using 36 and 48v systems mostly. The 24 requires some pedaling that the others don't but so far it is doable. I am going for the big hill test tomorrow if the weather cooperates. If it passes that one without causing me to gag, I might just stay with the 24v helper type rig.
 
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wjliebhauser

wjliebhauser

New Member
Oct 24, 2009
51
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Boulder City, NV
If I could find a front hub motor that generated when pushed, I would love it, per Deacon's suggestion. Maybe I have missed it, but I haven't seen any hub motor kits that seem to double as a generator. Sanyo is advertising a self-charging electric bike, but electric only and pricey. I know it's a challenge (=$$) to make an efficient motor that is also an efficient generator. I'm not looking for regen braking; got brakes. I'd like to be able to use electric when in areas where the noise is annoying, and no gas is cheaper than some gas.

If a dual-function hub is not available for a reasonable price, then I'm thinking about a hub motor and maybe a small car alternator and charging circuit driven of the gas drive chain. But that would give 13V, the hub motors are 24, 48 volts, and I'm trying to think of how to keep the voltage regulation/charging circuit simple.

The net result would be, run on electric where it's desirable. Battery low? Pedal, or kick in the gas, ride, and charge the battery. Theoretically simple, and technology is out there, but the challenge is to come up with a design that uses cheap, easy to find, off the shelf (or out of the junk yard) components!

So, thanks for the feedback, and keep thinkin! Thanks!

WJL
 
corgi1

corgi1

New Member
Aug 13, 2009
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KCMO
I am interested also ,,I have the thought of a friction drive on the rear wheel(allows for batterys in the center frame) with a shift in/out alternator (in when not driving the wheel)...and a hub (or some other type)motorfor electric......allows either... electric drive...gas/electric drive... as needed ...and possibly the alternator charging w/both drives running if the horse power will allow.
 
S

SANGESF

New Member
Feb 23, 2009
641
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Lake Worth
There would be no need to run both...

If you're gonna run gas, run gas.
If you're gonna run electric, run electric.

Gas is cheaper, but louder.
Electric is more expensive, but it's stealthy and quiet.

No reason to run both...
If it's legal in your state to run a gas powered bicycle and you don't care about a little noise, gas bikes work well.
If you need to run electric because of DL issues or you like the stealth part of it and you have the money, electric is the way to go.
Adding both to the same bicycle introduces more weight then is needed.
Why not just build two bikes? One gas and one electric. (the only added cost is the bicycle)


I don't understand the OPs desire to run both..
 
DuctTapedGoat

DuctTapedGoat

Active Member
Dec 20, 2010
1,179
10
38
38
Nampa Idaho
I've been wanting to build a hybrid for a couple reasons.

* Gas Mileage
* Higher RPM

As well, where I live, there is only individual limits. So, I could have a gas motor that doesn't surpass 30, and an electric that doesn't surpass 20. But it doesn't say anything about running them at the same time! This will allow me to seriously tune to surpass 30 MPH on a bicycle in Idaho technically/legally.

It's a big technicality, and the only way a law can stop that is something like Australia's "Wattage" rule.
 
Ernst

Ernst

New Member
May 28, 2011
363
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Turlock Ca
I'm interested!

My desire is power boost pulling a trailer up hill to go camping!

So I would have a 1200 watt generator along for laptop and other power. I would be able to charge batteries or even provide 48v ??

That Beach shot is hot!

What I need is a Disc front brake on the bike.

Do they make disc brakes for the front wheel drive?
 
Wm Holden

Wm Holden

New Member
Jun 1, 2011
358
2
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Ventura California
Ernst said:
I'm interested!

My desire is power boost pulling a trailer up hill to go camping!

So I would have a 1200 watt generator along for laptop and other power. I would be able to charge batteries or even provide 48v ??

That Beach shot is hot!

What I need is a Disc front brake on the bike.

Do they make disc brakes for the front wheel drive?
Click to expand...
I have a co conspirator who is working on a disk kit for wilderness hubs as we speak...

 
Dan

Dan

Staff
May 25, 2008
12,765
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Moosylvania
Really like this idea! seen a couple e/ice bikes and just makes sence 2 me. If nothing else, an intrinsic back-up means of propulsion.

My other thought is acceleration with traffic. Now, I pedal madly and can almost get going as fast as cars in the city.

Been thinking about this; a scooter/MC or maybe even a small car starter above the front wheel just as a power bump off the line to get up to speed. Small lawn tractor batt and a solar panal. Would only be good for a few "bumps" before needing a recharge. But is all I really need.

For green lights and this band of kids on scooters I see every now and then. They take turns passing me. $&^#&# whipersnaper ^(&^%(&%

LOL

dnut
 
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Dan

Dan

Staff
May 25, 2008
12,765
115
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Moosylvania
Now that's cool Wm!

I think the cars behind me, seeing me struggle, suggests that I am gonna hold them up so that they get annoyed and impatient with out cause. By the time I am up to speed, they are trying to get around me.
 
Wm Holden

Wm Holden

New Member
Jun 1, 2011
358
2
0
Ventura California
Dan said:
Now that's cool Wm!

I think the cars behind me, seeing me struggle, suggests that I am gonna hold them up so that they get annoyed and impatient with out cause. By the time I am up to speed, they are trying to get around me.
Click to expand...
exactly!

I put them on notice right off the line..."try to keep up"!

LOL!!xct2
 
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