Gas-Electric Hybrid Bike

Discussion in 'Hybrid Bikes & Trikes' started by wjliebhauser, Feb 15, 2010.

  1. wjliebhauser

    wjliebhauser New Member

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    I searched but did not get a hit on anyone who has done the following: I'm thinking a 2 cycle motored bike, with a front-wheel hub electric motor, and a charging set up (maybe friction off the back wheel or a sprocket driven off the 2 cycle drive chain, Would that not be awesome? Ultimate hybrid power - pedal, gas, or electric, and it would keep itself charged when coasting, pedaling, or running the gas. Has anyone out there tried to build such a machine? I'm looking for experience to avoid spending time on the ideas that DIDN'T work!

    "I have not failed 1000 times, I have successfully found 1000 ways not to make a light bubl." T Edison
     
  2. deacon

    deacon minor bike philosopher

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    Think about this: some of the hub motors have regenerative charging. When the bike is coasting or braking the hub becomes a generator. So if that is the case, would it charge if you were not using it, and the gasoline engine was pushing the bike creating a coasting illusion for the hub motor. I don't know for sure but it would seem to work that way. If it did, you would not need a generator at all. Just a hub motor with regenerative coasting/ braking controller.

    I have no idea if that would work or not but it seems intuitively that it would.
     
  3. professor

    professor New Member

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    wj, coasting inferrs no drag. Charging would be a drag. Braking is so minimal on a bike that the output is also minimal for regenerative braking.
    I am doing a gas/elect. Would never do it if gas bikes were legal here.
    My bike isn't fast -around 15 mph, it is powered by a 450w scooter motor and batteries charged by a hf 79 driving a 24v Delco alternator.
     
  4. deacon

    deacon minor bike philosopher

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    a friction drive generator is going to be heavy drag I would think. I would expect that anything regenerative would have drag. Correct me if I'm wrong and I may well be. A friction drive on a scooter motor when coasting if the circuit to the battery were open with a diode in place the motor would switch to a generator mode.

    I would think that a hub motor could be made to do that same thing. It wouldn't freewheel but if pushed by a gasoline engine, it should be able to pump some current back into the battery.

    I wouldn't be surprised if the brush type hub motors in the hands of an evil genius couldn't be wired to do that. How about having one hub motor on the rear set up as a generator only. And one on the front to be used to pull the bike when the gas engine is shut down. It all sounds rather complicated. Not to mention expensive.

    By the way gasoline motors are legal here and I still run an ebike. Just a matter of need I suppose the e-bike fits my needs better. You know less noise, less smoke, and less vibration so less maintenance. If I needed more power it would be a different thing entirely.. I have lately been testing a 24v system after using 36 and 48v systems mostly. The 24 requires some pedaling that the others don't but so far it is doable. I am going for the big hill test tomorrow if the weather cooperates. If it passes that one without causing me to gag, I might just stay with the 24v helper type rig.
     
    #4 deacon, Feb 15, 2010
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2010
  5. wjliebhauser

    wjliebhauser New Member

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    If I could find a front hub motor that generated when pushed, I would love it, per Deacon's suggestion. Maybe I have missed it, but I haven't seen any hub motor kits that seem to double as a generator. Sanyo is advertising a self-charging electric bike, but electric only and pricey. I know it's a challenge (=$$) to make an efficient motor that is also an efficient generator. I'm not looking for regen braking; got brakes. I'd like to be able to use electric when in areas where the noise is annoying, and no gas is cheaper than some gas.

    If a dual-function hub is not available for a reasonable price, then I'm thinking about a hub motor and maybe a small car alternator and charging circuit driven of the gas drive chain. But that would give 13V, the hub motors are 24, 48 volts, and I'm trying to think of how to keep the voltage regulation/charging circuit simple.

    The net result would be, run on electric where it's desirable. Battery low? Pedal, or kick in the gas, ride, and charge the battery. Theoretically simple, and technology is out there, but the challenge is to come up with a design that uses cheap, easy to find, off the shelf (or out of the junk yard) components!

    So, thanks for the feedback, and keep thinkin! Thanks!

    WJL
     
  6. corgi1

    corgi1 New Member

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    I am interested also ,,I have the thought of a friction drive on the rear wheel(allows for batterys in the center frame) with a shift in/out alternator (in when not driving the wheel)...and a hub (or some other type)motorfor electric......allows either... electric drive...gas/electric drive... as needed ...and possibly the alternator charging w/both drives running if the horse power will allow.
     
  7. Wm Holden

    Wm Holden New Member

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  8. SANGESF

    SANGESF New Member

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    There would be no need to run both...

    If you're gonna run gas, run gas.
    If you're gonna run electric, run electric.

    Gas is cheaper, but louder.
    Electric is more expensive, but it's stealthy and quiet.

    No reason to run both...
    If it's legal in your state to run a gas powered bicycle and you don't care about a little noise, gas bikes work well.
    If you need to run electric because of DL issues or you like the stealth part of it and you have the money, electric is the way to go.
    Adding both to the same bicycle introduces more weight then is needed.
    Why not just build two bikes? One gas and one electric. (the only added cost is the bicycle)


    I don't understand the OPs desire to run both..
     
  9. DuctTapedGoat

    DuctTapedGoat Active Member

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    I've been wanting to build a hybrid for a couple reasons.

    * Gas Mileage
    * Higher RPM

    As well, where I live, there is only individual limits. So, I could have a gas motor that doesn't surpass 30, and an electric that doesn't surpass 20. But it doesn't say anything about running them at the same time! This will allow me to seriously tune to surpass 30 MPH on a bicycle in Idaho technically/legally.

    It's a big technicality, and the only way a law can stop that is something like Australia's "Wattage" rule.
     
  10. Ernst

    Ernst New Member

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    I'm interested!

    My desire is power boost pulling a trailer up hill to go camping!

    So I would have a 1200 watt generator along for laptop and other power. I would be able to charge batteries or even provide 48v ??

    That Beach shot is hot!

    What I need is a Disc front brake on the bike.

    Do they make disc brakes for the front wheel drive?
     
  11. Ernst

    Ernst New Member

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    What is that seat?

    Looks like a device! But I really like the big springs too.

    Did you get the controls to be hybrid?

    I may well do this hybrid.
     
  12. Wm Holden

    Wm Holden New Member

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    I have a co conspirator who is working on a disk kit for wilderness hubs as we speak...

    [​IMG]
     
  13. happyvalley

    happyvalley New Member

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    @wm holden
    What does the bike in the pic weigh?
     
    #13 happyvalley, Jun 10, 2011
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2011
  14. motorbiker

    motorbiker New Member

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  15. Wm Holden

    Wm Holden New Member

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    dont know what it weighs.
    But I love it
     
  16. gobigkahuna

    gobigkahuna New Member

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    I have one of those (got it for work). It's a nice, cheap generator, but it weighs a TON! Heck, I bet a VW bug engine weighs less! ;)
     
  17. Dan

    Dan Staff
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    Really like this idea! seen a couple e/ice bikes and just makes sence 2 me. If nothing else, an intrinsic back-up means of propulsion.

    My other thought is acceleration with traffic. Now, I pedal madly and can almost get going as fast as cars in the city.

    Been thinking about this; a scooter/MC or maybe even a small car starter above the front wheel just as a power bump off the line to get up to speed. Small lawn tractor batt and a solar panal. Would only be good for a few "bumps" before needing a recharge. But is all I really need.

    For green lights and this band of kids on scooters I see every now and then. They take turns passing me. $&^#&# whipersnaper ^(&^%(&%

    LOL

    dnut
     
    #17 Dan, Jun 13, 2011
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2011
  18. Wm Holden

    Wm Holden New Member

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    acceleration is much better running both...I pass cars on the launch.
     
  19. Dan

    Dan Staff
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    Now that's cool Wm!

    I think the cars behind me, seeing me struggle, suggests that I am gonna hold them up so that they get annoyed and impatient with out cause. By the time I am up to speed, they are trying to get around me.
     
  20. Wm Holden

    Wm Holden New Member

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    exactly!

    I put them on notice right off the line..."try to keep up"!

    LOL!!xct2
     

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