New HD wheel wobbles...

silverbear

silverbear

The Boy Who Never Grew Up
I'm looking for some advice on what may be wrong with a brand new HD wheel I have which has never been ridden and has had the spokes trued professionally before I ever got it. I put the pedal sprocket on with the C clip deal as I have done on others. I took nothing apart other than removing the coaster brake arm in order to bend it a bit so that it would clear the drive sprocket, which it does. Everything seems fine. I put it on the bike with the bike upside down to better check alignments and spun the wheel with the pedals and checked the coaster brake. Fine. Then I noticed there was side to side movement at the hub. I took the wheel off, tightened things up, but not too tight and put it back on the bike. No side to side wobble. Then I pedaled it a bit (still upside down), checked the brake function and it wobbles again. Something is self loosening. This is a Shimano CB 110 hub, heavy rims and spokes. I admit to knowing little about hubs. I've heard of "cones" and "cone wrenches" and suspect this may have to do with my problem, but I don't have a clue on how to make things right. Any thoughts on this are much appreciated. The bike is just about ready to test ride, but there is no way that bike goes on the road until the wobble is gone for good.
SB
 
Your cone nuts are not tight enough. Probably got loose when you took the brake arm off. Your gonna need some cone wrenches or grind down a normal wrench.

I tighten the cone nuts by hand then tighten them a quarter turn more with a wrench , screw on the lock nut then back out the cone nut against the lock nut while not moving the lock nut. Lol. Confused ?
 
HHEEEYYY!!! LOL... Ok, so this was happening to me and it was pissing me off, so i found out this:

on the side with the regular bike sprocket, there should be 2 bolts. one big one, and one that looks round but has 2 notches on it. tighten that with a cone wrench. bring the wheel to a bike shop and ask them for the size that goes with the bike. theyll give to u.

so next, tighten the cone nut untill the sprocket can only move alittle, BUT NOT 2 TIGHT. then hold it with the cone wrench and tighten the big nut. this should solve it.


TIP: make a youtube account and make vids of your probs, then put the link on here. IT HELPS US ALL ALOT
 
Thanks for the tips. I'll look through my old wrenches to see if there's a donor to grind down. If not I'll make a cone wrench out of some flat stock and cut & grind the opening... doesn't have to be pretty. Save a trip to town only to discover the bike shop guy is out to lunch.
SB
 
SB,

The size is 9/16"

Be sure to keep a coffee can full of water at the grinder...don't let the wrench turn blue...you'll loose the temper of the steel and the wrench will splay open and slip. You will need to grind away about 1/3 of the thickness of a typical open end wrench.

Both methods listed above are good, but I use the r00t4rd3d method simply because it requires less fussing around.

Prior to any of this...slide a piece of pipe over the brake arm and get that nut good and tight.

When the bearings are "right", the axle should spin freely with no more than a barely noticeable amount of lateral freeplay.

If it feels even the slightest bit tight...start over, or you may end up with premature bearing failure.

Jim
 
Thank you, Jim. I'll take my time with modifying the wrench and will take care to try to make things right with the cone adjustment.
SB
 
You'll know its too tight if you spin the wheel and the peddles hop up and down. Like Jim said a small touch of side to side play is okay , any play up and down and its too loose.
 
i disagree with the posts above. it's not difficult, if you have the patience, to get absolutely no play out of the wheel. even a tiny amount of side to side play can cause the bearings to wear prematurely.

i bought a set of cone wrenches off ebay for under ten bucks. the shimano hub takes a 15mm, not a 9/16. it's made in japan so it's metric.

now, here's the trick to making it perfect.

make sure the axle is centered, then tighten the sprocket side cone nuts against themselves as tight as possible. thats where the 15mm cone wrench comes in.

now, on the arm side, tighten the cone down by hand till it's tight. you want it a little too tight, where you can feel some drag when you spin the axle.

then, put the arm and the outer nut on.

hold the arm and tighten the outer nut against it.

99% of the time, as you tighten the outer nut, it'll turn with the axle, and the arm and the cone will tighten up against it. that's why you want a little bit of drag like i mentioned above. as the cone tightens, it'll get rid of that drag.

when it's tight, grab the tip of the arm and forcefully wiggle it up and down. it should have NO play whatsoever.

if it does have any play at all, loosen up the outer nut on the arm side, and hold the sprocket side cones with a wrench. then use the arm as a wrench to tighten it's cone up, till it has a little more drag on it then before. tighten up the outer nut.

sometimes it'll take a few tries, but it's easier the more times you do it.

now, if you're sure there's no play when you wiggle the arm, hold onto the wheel with the axle in both hands and give it a spin. if it rolls smoothly, you're done.

if it catches, feels rough, or doesn't spin free, here's another trick:

as long as it's not super tight and just needs a minor adjustment, grab the sprocket side inner cone nut with a wrench, and using a pipe for leverage, put it over the brake arm and turn it counter clockwise.

you're gonna have to force it, but you can usually get a small turn out of it, which should get rid of the drag. it also tightens the **** out of your nuts, so there's no chance of loosening up on its own.

that should be it. it took me longer to type this then it would to actually do it.
 
bairdco said:
i disagree with the posts above. it's not difficult, if you have the patience, to get absolutely no play out of the wheel. even a tiny amount of side to side play can cause the bearings to wear prematurely.

i bought a set of cone wrenches off ebay for under ten bucks. the shimano hub takes a 15mm, not a 9/16. it's made in japan so it's metric.

now, here's the trick to making it perfect.

make sure the axle is centered, then tighten the sprocket side cone nuts against themselves as tight as possible. thats where the 15mm cone wrench comes in.

now, on the arm side, tighten the cone down by hand till it's tight. you want it a little too tight, where you can feel some drag when you spin the axle.

then, put the arm and the outer nut on.

hold the arm and tighten the outer nut against it.

99% of the time, as you tighten the outer nut, it'll turn with the axle, and the arm and the cone will tighten up against it. that's why you want a little bit of drag like i mentioned above. as the cone tightens, it'll get rid of that drag.

when it's tight, grab the tip of the arm and forcefully wiggle it up and down. it should have NO play whatsoever.

if it does have any play at all, loosen up the outer nut on the arm side, and hold the sprocket side cones with a wrench. then use the arm as a wrench to tighten it's cone up, till it has a little more drag on it then before. tighten up the outer nut.

sometimes it'll take a few tries, but it's easier the more times you do it.

now, if you're sure there's no play when you wiggle the arm, hold onto the wheel with the axle in both hands and give it a spin. if it rolls smoothly, you're done.

if it catches, feels rough, or doesn't spin free, here's another trick:

as long as it's not super tight and just needs a minor adjustment, grab the sprocket side inner cone nut with a wrench, and using a pipe for leverage, put it over the brake arm and turn it counter clockwise.

you're gonna have to force it, but you can usually get a small turn out of it, which should get rid of the drag. it also tightens the **** out of your nuts, so there's no chance of loosening up on its own.

that should be it. it took me longer to type this then it would to actually do it.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the how to. Yes, it would be metric. Now to find a cone wrench to buy or grind down a 15mm open end wrench. The amount of axle threads seems to be more on the pedal sprocket side than the brake arm side. It should be close to equal, shouldn't it?
SB
 
the axle doesn't have to be perfectly centered. it won't make any difference in how it rides. but when you're bolting fenders, racks, whatever onto them, you gotta make sure you have enough threads on both sides.

on my 24" colson with the ammo can "luggage" box, i have a longer axle, and it's offset a bit so i have more threads on that side.
 
If I take out -all- the side to side play my peddles hop. Id say there is a 1/16th inch of play side to side on my rear wheel. I spent a couple nights trying to get it perfect. In the end I settled with the 16th. Granted I didnt use cone wrenches , just a ground down box end so that may have been my down fall and everything Ive read about cone nut adjustment mentioned a slight side to side is fine cause if they are too tight you can kill your bearings in a hurry.
 
The wheel is fixed. It took a good while grinding down an old Stanley 15mm wrench to make a cone wrench, but making the adjustments was easy enough. It appears that the problem is gone, but only riding it will be the real test. Tomorrow. Either way, now I know what to do, thanks to you guys!
SB
 
good job, SB. it only gets easier.

rOOt, it might depend on your hub whether or not you can get it perfect. i've never built a bike with anything crappier than a shimano, so i dunno. but i figure if your bearings have any slop in them, they won't roll exactly where they're supposed to, which could stretch out the bearing cages and damage the races. if it's too tight, then there's extra force on them, so the way i look at it, it ain't good either way.
 
Thanks for the info Bairdco. I've found it's all in the "sweet spot" and the sprocket side cone locknut HAS to be tight.
 
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