new member - first install - questions? of course

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zeppelinboy

New Member
Oct 19, 2009
7
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colorado
Hello everyone,

I am a new member in Boulder Colorado. I have been readingthe forum for awhile, but this is my first post.

I have just finished installing a DAX F80 and SBP shift kit on an old trek and just took it out for an initial shakedown.

I got the motor running and powering the bike, but I am having trouble with pedal stiffness.

That is, when I have the clutch actuated (lever pulled, not connected to the motor), the pedals are very difficult to pedal. There seems to be quite alot of drag in the clutch assembly. I know that the drag is coming from the clutch assembly because I can remove the engine chain and pedal normally and spin the jackshaft.

So, my question is, what amount of drag from the clutch assembly is considered normal?

Does the stiffness loosen up over time?

Other information:

My clutch actuator only swings about 15°. If actuated by hand,instead of the cable, it can swing almost 90°. Does the flywheel sprocket have less drag the more the clutch actuator swings? Even at 90° I cannot turn the flywheel sprocket by hand.

I am fairly confident that my clutch is fully disengaging because if I lift the back wheel when the clutch is actuated, it does not spin at all.

Thanks in advance for your help!


-Justin
 
2door

2door

Moderator
Staff member
Sep 15, 2008
16,302
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Littleton, Colorado
If the rear whel does not spin with the clutch disengaged your clutch is working fine. Maybe someone who uses the SBP shift kit will chime in here but even with the freewheel I believe you're still rotating the engine cross shaft when you pedal. That will add a lot of drag to the pedals even though you are not turning the engine crankshaft. Be patient. Someone will respond here shortly. Hopefully someone from Sick Bike Parts will help out.
Tom
 
Venice Motor Bikes

Venice Motor Bikes

Custom Builder / Dealer/Los Angeles
Mar 20, 2008
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Los Angeles, CA.
The clutches in these engines usually have some drag at first, but it goes away as the engine breaks in.
You could also check that there isn't any additional drag in the shift kit chains from being too tight, or maybe drag in the jackshaft bearings???
 
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zeppelinboy

New Member
Oct 19, 2009
7
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colorado
I had a really long reply but it would not let me post it because it had links in it.
I am trying to get my post # up so that I can post links.
 
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zeppelinboy

New Member
Oct 19, 2009
7
0
0
colorado
Hi everyone, thanks for the replies.

I guess it would help if I knew how much drag is considered normal.

If I lift the back wheel off the ground with the clutch actuated, I can spin the crank by hand if it is oriented so that I am pushing down, but once the crank becomes vertical, it is too difficult to spin the crank by hand.

So, how much drag is normal? Should it still be relatively easy to pedal the bike when the clutch is depressed. That is can one expect to be able to travel on the bike without the motor,or should we consider the pedals to be an emergency only option?

Today I removed the left side clutch cover and noticed some interference marks from the chain as in this thread:

http://motorbicycling.com/f4/chain-noise-6682.html

I clearanced the cover, but noticed to real difference in the pedal stiffness.

I also removed the right side cover and totally removed the flowernut and pressure plate and again, the pedal stiffness did not change.

As stated in my first post, the pedals spin freely when the chain from the jackshaft to the motor is removed, so the stiffness must either be from the clutch pucks dragging on the backside clutch plate as shown in the 2nd post in this thread:

http://motorbicycling.com/f30/animated-view-ht-clutch-assembly-countershaft-8939.html

Or the stiffness is from the cross shaft itself.

I believe that if I remove the entire large gear/hub/clutch assembly, then I will be able to determine if the stiffness is from the clutch dragging on the back plate, or if it is from the cross shaft itself. If the stiffness is from the back plate, then the cross shaft will spin freely with the large gear removed.

Can anyone confirm that this is true?


Thanks!!

Justin
 
bairdco

bairdco

a guy who makes cool bikes
Aug 18, 2009
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living the dream in southern california
the bike should ride almost normal with the clutch pulled. if it's not rolling free at all, something's wrong.without the clutch working, you wouldn't be able to stop without it stalling, and it'd be a real problem trying to start it.

can you post a picture of the clutch arm and cable on your motor? sounds to me like it's just not adjusted properly. here's how mine looks...
 

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bairdco

bairdco

a guy who makes cool bikes
Aug 18, 2009
6,537
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living the dream in southern california
there's your problem. the picture of mine is with the clutch released. you just need to tighten the cable more. push in the lever on the engine till you can actually feel resistance, then go a little bit more. when my clutch is pulled, the little lever is underneath the carb, pointing toward my right axle nut on the back wheel.

once you establish it's working, and you get a feel for it, you can fine-tune it.
 
2door

2door

Moderator
Staff member
Sep 15, 2008
16,302
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Littleton, Colorado
bairdco speaks the truth: I like to keep the cable snug enough that there is no slack in it with the clutch disengaged. You don't want it so tight that is is trying to disengage the clutch but the cable should have no slack in it. Do as he said and you'll probably notice a decrease in clutch drag when pedaling. Get back to us if you're still having problems. Funny thing is; except when starting the engine most of us rarely pedal so it's not really an issue.
Tom
 
Z

zeppelinboy

New Member
Oct 19, 2009
7
0
0
colorado
Hi Guys,

Thanks again for the replies.

I sure wish it was as simple as adjusting the clutch cable tighter, but no go. I can pull the actuator in as far as it goes and the pedal stiffness does not change at all.

In the current adjustment state shown in the pictures, the cable is tight, if it were any tighter, the clutch lever would begin to actuate. When the lever is pulled to the actuated state shown in the picture, with the motor running, the rear wheel will not turn if lifted off of the ground. If the lever is in the unactuated state, the motor will die if the rear wheel is kept from turning.

As I stated above, even with the pressure plate entirely removed, the drag is still there, so I do not see how an unadjusted clutch cable could cause the drag.

Does this make sense?

Thanks!


Justin
 
bairdco

bairdco

a guy who makes cool bikes
Aug 18, 2009
6,537
264
63
living the dream in southern california
first, check what marts1 said above. where the cable guide screws into the engine, make sure it's not bottomed out, or contacting anything inside of there.

and.... what you're saying is that if you physically push the clutch arm all the way in, as far as you can, so it's basically underneath the carb, it still won't release?

new clutches can be pretty stiff. it might take some effort.

also, when i first built mine, i thought my clutch was messed up, too. it seemed to me there should be more free play in the cable, but the opposite is true. my cable adjustment feels like it's got a lot of tension and it should be actuating the clutch, but it's not.
 
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george_n_texas

george_n_texas

Member
Sep 4, 2009
980
4
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Texas
I noticed the chain looks very clean...It was lot easier peddling after I sprayed lubricant on both chains on my bike. It attracts a lot of road dirt...I intend to use motorkote once I get some hard to find...a clean bike is a sign of a sick mind.
 
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bandito

New Member
May 22, 2009
783
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0
colorado
Bairdco when these kits are new do the clutch plates have a tendency to grab until their worn a little? Could the idle just be too low on his motor and thats the reason its dying when stopped? None of this will matter if the clutch cable isnt adjusted properly. Ive seen that actuator shaft in pics and its a half round shaft, if the clutch cable is tight when released isnt that all that is nesessary in the cable? Doesnt seem theres too must adjustment you can do to a half round shaft unless under tension from the cable at rest you want it rotated partially to increase the distance between the pads and the clutch plate when the clutch handle is pulled in.
 
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X

xlite

New Member
Jun 18, 2009
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ny,ny
Everybody seems to be ignoring the fact that his rear wheel does not spin when lifted off the ground.

Contrary to popular opinion these bikes do not pedal easy with the clutch disengaged. I can pedal about 40 miles max with chain removed but only 5-10 miles with it on. It's a little better after break in but not much.
 
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bandito

New Member
May 22, 2009
783
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colorado
I see 2door answered 1 of my questions earlier by stating the cable needs to be tight with no play when the clutch is released but not too tight.
 
Ghost0

Ghost0

New Member
Mar 7, 2008
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Bellingham, WA
If you say that if you remove the chain from the engine output sprocket to the jackshaft and it pedals freely then the resistance is in your engine. As was previously stated they will be a little stiff when new. You could try adjusting your clutch a little. Turn the flower nut out about a 1/4 turn and see if it is better. Another thing that was mentioned earlier is that it will never be as easy to pedal the bike with an engine as it was without. Most of our customers do comment that they feel it is a little easier pedaling the bike with the Shift Kit than it was with the stock chain set up.
 
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