Velocars and other interesting vehicles.

wheelbender6 · Feb 22, 2015

I got this vid about 50cc cars from one of my scooter forums.
Not much other info on them. Not a good vehicle for impetuous people.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xC3j9VyaVwE

moto-klasika · Feb 23, 2015

Hello,
Serbian 3-wheel HPV:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ol6zqxtXgts

Interesting construction, only there should be added proper caster for front wheels, but wiht slow speeds it wouldn't be serious problems without that...
Then, two Serbian quadricycles with TOMOS engine/transmission:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkGqlJTg9ok
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtAdik2wZYI

And, a few phtos with original comercial TOMOS 3-wheelers...

Ciao,
Zoran

moto-klasika · Feb 23, 2015

...and, a few pedal powered three-wheelers for commercial use (small business done by Gypsies) use in Serbia. They were mostly made by a few back-yard worksops on semi-proffesional base, or full DIY. I am afraid that today there are not anyone of such workshops in Belgrade. Could do good job for small money, even special construction by order!
Zoran

Intrepid Wheelwoman · Feb 23, 2015

moto-klasika said:
Hello,
Serbian 3-wheel HPV:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ol6zqxtXgts

Interesting construction, only there should be added proper caster for front wheels, but wiht slow speeds it wouldn't be serious problems without that...
Then, two Serbian quadricycles with TOMOS engine/transmission:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkGqlJTg9ok
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtAdik2wZYI

And, a few phtos with original comercial TOMOS 3-wheelers...

Ciao,
Zoran

That three wheeler is interesting Zoran. As you say the wheel alignment looks a little strange, but at lower speeds I suppose it doesn't really matter. It needs a Mochet style bodyshell on it though to look right

Those quads with TOMOS engines caught my interest too. The first one looked to my eye as if its track was a little too wide for a single seater. The second one was a very professional looking build (apart from the soda bottle gas tank) and would look very nice with a lightweight sportscar body on it

moto-klasika · Feb 24, 2015

Intrepid Wheelwoman said:
That three wheeler is interesting Zoran. As you say the wheel alignment looks a little strange, but at lower speeds I suppose it doesn't really matter. It needs a Mochet style bodyshell on it though to look right

Those quads with TOMOS engines caught my interest too. The first one looked to my eye as if its track was a little too wide for a single seater. The second one was a very professional looking build (apart from the soda bottle gas tank) and would look very nice with a lightweight sportscar body on it

----------------------

Annie,

Obviously that somebody made great joy for kids with that HPV 3-wheeler! Who would care for Akermann principles of steering...

Similar aproach to steering was with a pair of quadricycles with TOMOS moped engines of 49 cc... They were interesting to me because using TOMOS engines and powere on just one wheel, with simple metal construction. One with moped front forks is my favourite, but could be lighter and narrower...
I suppose that with a little lighter quadricycle, with same engine and "shorter" transmission - with cruising speed around 20 mph, it could pull two of us...

Zoran

P.S: You are quite tight - some lightweight sporting body should be practical and add some style! Or soemthing in spirit of early veteran cars...
Plastic bottle for gasoline - nothing new, we often used it on bad, old cars when gas-pump or tank was broken...

Intrepid Wheelwoman · Feb 24, 2015

wheelbender6 said:
I got this vid about 50cc cars from one of my scooter forums.
Not much other info on them. Not a good vehicle for impetuous people.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xC3j9VyaVwE

I think those little 50cc cars are just corker Wheelbender

If it had been possible to buy something like that when I was still driving I would have bought one like a shot.
The simple truth is most folk in a small town like our one don't need a wopping great car and I constantly see folk about town in cars who only live 5 minutes up the road from me; - and here I am on a bicycle doing my shopping!

moto-klasika · Feb 26, 2015

wheelbender6 said:
I got this vid about 50cc cars from one of my scooter forums.
Not much other info on them. Not a good vehicle for impetuous people.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xC3j9VyaVwE

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Intrepid Wheelwoman said:
I think those little 50cc cars are just corker Wheelbender
If it had been possible to buy something like that when I was still driving I would have bought one like a shot.
The simple truth is most folk in a small town like our one don't need a wopping great car and I constantly see folk about town in cars who only live 5 minutes up the road from me; - and here I am on a bicycle doing my shopping!

==============================

[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]Hello Annie and Wheel-bender,[/FONT]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]From attached video-clip and some studying during a few years, I could say that neither of shown “autos” are propelled by 50 cc engines – they should be to weak for that. Such vehicles belonged to category of “Light Quadricycles” according to European Union Regulative (gasoline engines up to 50 cc, Diesel-engines and electric-motors up to 4 Kilowatts). Speed is restricted up to 45 km/hour, which should be too much for MY light quadricycle if ever started to be built. During seventies-eighties, they were quite popular in france - with moped engines up to 50 cc, but they were simpler and much lighter!
[/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]Now, most of such “autos” are powered by Diesel engines with 350-500 cc and 4 Kilowatts – with small power but good pulling torque.[/FONT]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]With my wife, we saw a few of such vehicles here in Swiss and they are cute for us, looking practical for “flying” across and around Bern. However, I am not sure if they are good for their money. Beside limit of 45 km/hour, which is acceptable for streets, regional and inter-town roads – they are not real automobiles, but not real simple “scooters with cabin”... They looks (almost) as real small autos and are equipped quite well, but they are too expensive, both new and second-hand. Our Citroen C-1 has servo-steering, servo-braking, air-condition, electric-windows, four doors (plus one at rear), four seats – and speed up to 170 km/hour! It is of much better quality and much safer on road. Good for our trips to Belgrade and back (total 2,000 miles). And, all that for less money than any of such quadricycles could cost. No need to replace our automobile with such vehicle, no mater how cute. Only advantage that some people like: no need for automobile driving licence, but I had 3 of them (Serbian, International and Swiss). If I am not good for driving of normal auto, I should not drive quadricycle either.[/FONT]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]But, to build one quite simple, cheap and light – could be nice![/FONT]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS, cursive]Zoran[/FONT]

wheelbender6 · Feb 26, 2015

I posted pictures of the Raht Racer velomobile a while back but they would not release any details at that time. There is a pretty good article on Gizmag now with considerably more info. It has pedals, but they generate electricity to charge the Li-ion batteries, rather than propel the wheels. IT COSTS NORTH OF $45,000 us, but they claim it is fast enough to be driven within the traffic lanes, rather than on the side of the road like a human powered vehicle. I think I will just keep riding my $3,000, 125cc scooter to work.
http://www.gizmag.com/raht-racer-velomobile/36222/

Ludwig II · Feb 26, 2015

The UK rendering of the regulations for trikes and quads under moped rules do not specifically ban petrol; spark ignition engines over 50cc are banned. Hot bulb or glowplug 2 strokes anyone?

bluegoatwoods · Feb 26, 2015

Did they literally write these regulations to specify spark-ignition engines, Ludwig?

It would seem like a strange thing to specify. Unless they were intentionally giving larger diesels the green light.

Ludwig II · Feb 27, 2015

I spoke to the man specifically charged with phrasing the single vehicle moped rules, and a non spark engine can be more than 50cc provided it is 4kw or less.

moto-klasika · Feb 27, 2015

Ludwig,
I will be glad if I could make one hot-bulb engine, or flame-lick engine, even "simple" Stirling engine, or Robinson engine (practical variant of Stirling) steam engine. (gas turbine or jet engine I do not mind too much)... I would enjoy even if it just stay at my work-bench and running for no use at all...
European Union Directives stipulated (for light three-wheeler, but the same if for light quadricycles):
“... ...
— cylinder capacity does not exceed 50 cm3 if of the spark (positive) ignition type, or
— maximum net power output does not exceed 4 kW in the case of other internal combustion engines...
… ...”
National regulative and standards could be slightly different, but not too much. They not specified that “other ICE" must be of Diesel type... All of mentioned engines are in group of non-sparking engines - but not in group of ICE (couldn't be sure for turbines and jet-engines)... So, if it isn't forbidden, maybe it is allowed? But, in practice, it is quit opposite: everything is forbidden if not officially allowed.

Anyway, I suppose that anywhere in Europe it would be extremely difficult and expensive to go trough attesting process of any of mentioned alternative engines?

But, I would like to follow process if somebody start to build any of such engines, at least as experiment.

Ciao,
Zoran

moto-klasika · Feb 27, 2015

wheelbender6 said:
I posted pictures of the Raht Racer velomobile a while back but they would not release any details at that time. There is a pretty good article on Gizmag now with considerably more info. It has pedals, but they generate electricity to charge the Li-ion batteries, rather than propel the wheels. IT COSTS NORTH OF $45,000 us, but they claim it is fast enough to be driven within the traffic lanes, rather than on the side of the road like a human powered vehicle. I think I will just keep riding my $3,000, 125cc scooter to work.
http://www.gizmag.com/raht-racer-velomobile/36222/

---------------------------
Hello WB,
you are quite right! We shall keep what we have now? But, if I must spent 45,000 $$$ on some vehilce, I would buy good Mercedes Diesel and enjoy driving it everywhere, wiht a company - to the end of my life! If I am not obliged to spent such money on vehicle, but have it - I would know what to do with it! In any case, we could buy a lot of gasoline for that money for enitre of our lives, even if we are young.
BTW, article is full of #*ç&%@¢ , like this:

"... Raht Racer's pedals are connected to a unique flywheel generator that powers the vehicle's 20-kWh electric motor .... senses the torque being applied to the pedals by the rider, then uses the motor to amplify it .... average adult should be easily able to maintain a cruising speed of around 30 mph (48 km/h) – or over ... pedaling power is also used to charge the 9.2-kWh li-ion battery pack, helping to extend its range ... The current prototype tips the scales at 570 lb (259 kg) ... If you want one, though, you'd better plan on it saving you a lot of gas ... "

Using pedals to propell generator that should propel electic motor? The worst possible system of hybrid power. And, motor has 20 Kilowatts! And, to charge batereis in the same time? All that in vehicle of 260 kg? It would be easier to desing and construct "perpetum mobille"!

Their only goal is to collect 250 $$$ for a few housand times and then go bankrupt... Beside, such vehilce if ever produced for the market - must be regsitered: not as moped but as 3-wheel motorcycle (or heavy three-wheeler in Europe)

Zoran

moto-klasika · Feb 27, 2015

bluegoatwoods said:
Did they literally write these regulations to specify spark-ignition engines, Ludwig?

It would seem like a strange thing to specify. Unless they were intentionally giving larger diesels the green light.

--- ---
[FONT=Arial Unicode MS, sans-serif]Hello BGW,[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial Unicode MS, sans-serif]Yes - they specified that in Europe![/FONT]
[FONT=Arial Unicode MS, sans-serif](part of regulation are in my previous post on that theme). [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial Unicode MS, sans-serif]Mostly, moped engines of up to 50 cc are used, but sometimes special go-karts engines too. So, there could have power from 3-4 HP up to 8-10 HP. For light vehicles, that should be enough, for speeds up to 45 km/hour. If two-stroke, such engines are still quite noisy and polluting. Modern four-strokes are better. Larger Diesels do not have much power (up to 4 Kilowatts), but better pulling quality, and are a little lazy. The same is with electric-motors, which are more socially acceptable and privileged a lot...
All that is quite enough if used as alternative transport on shorter distances, in urban surroundings, often on bicycles paths and lines...

If they allowed bigger engines, for instance up to 125 cc - they could have up to 25 HP! Therefore, there is some good reasons in restrictions, at least for Europe. Good thing is that regulations became (almost) universal - with very good systematisation of all light motorised vehicles.

For more power and more speeds - there are 3-wheelers and quadricycles with power up to 15 Kilowatts, without restriction of speed, just weight and payload. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial Unicode MS, sans-serif]Zoran[/FONT]

Intrepid Wheelwoman · Mar 1, 2015

I had to post this picture; - a French ladies tricycle race from the heroic era of bicycling. Apparently men liked to watch these events because they could catch the sight of a nice ankle or a well turned calf.

moto-klasika · Mar 1, 2015

... only men in public?
But, ladies are really riding in hard and serious way!
Are those only-pedal, or hybrid power (with DeDion & Boutton) engines behind?

Ciao,
Zoran

Intrepid Wheelwoman · Mar 1, 2015

It does look as if they might be motor-tricycles Zoran. As you say those ladies are racing quite seriously and are putting effort into pushing down those pedals

Ludwig II · Mar 1, 2015

http://earlymotor.com/serpolette/index.htm

Ludwig II · Mar 1, 2015

Intrepid Wheelwoman · Mar 1, 2015

Wonderful, - thank you Ludwig

Velocars and other interesting vehicles.

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