Propane conversion

Discussion in 'Motorized Bicycle General Discussion' started by Dan, Dec 28, 2008.

  1. Dan

    Dan Staff
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    This would be cool. Convert a 4 stroker to propane. In researching it, there are no great advantages other then cleaner burning fuel and being more "green" It would in fact cost more to build. I have not yet found any thing on engine longevity. Also I am only finding kits with a screw type throttle for generators, not some thing like a MB where it would need to be adjusted manually. Dunno, would just be a cool build.
    The Emergency Preparedness Tip o'da Week.
    scratg
     
    #1 Dan, Dec 28, 2008
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2008
  2. Spunout

    Spunout MB Builder Extraordinaire

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    aren't propane conversion vehicles not as powerful as gas?
     
  3. Dan

    Dan Staff
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    Most of the kit providers I am reading say no, but lots of hints that is not as much bang. I honestly don't know. Another thing I am wondering with a complete (or nearly) burn, how would it effect the cylinder, piston and rings? Even with a 4 banger, wouldn't it need some carpola build up inside?

    Is just another crazy thought. Could work well (I think) Throttle is the big hurdle that I know of. (YET)

    Doubt it is really worth it, but will be fun to try.

    Whats the worst that can happen? snork!

    *a small explosion was reported in the Hartford area today. No one was reported injured but a bicyclist was found in Massachusetts*
     
    #3 Dan, Dec 28, 2008
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2008
  4. Bikeguy Joe

    Bikeguy Joe Godfather of Motorized Bicycles

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    You would need a big (BBQ grille) tank to get very far.

    Propane uses a lot of, uh, propane.
     
  5. Dan

    Dan Staff
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    Been reading close to the same consumption as regular gas, Joe. was thinking 2, one liter tanks for the conversion kit. Would be more then my stock happy time tanks.
     
    #5 Dan, Dec 28, 2008
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2008
  6. Bikeguy Joe

    Bikeguy Joe Godfather of Motorized Bicycles

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    Hmmmm... I was under the impression that they used a lot more fuel, but that was from a guy who drove a propane conversion around for his company. He probably didn't have a clue....sorta like me sometimes..bf.
     
  7. eDJ

    eDJ New Member

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    Dan wrote:

    There was a small company in Portland Oregon called Earth Move that made these carb kits off the patten held by Harold Bate.....a WW2 TAXI driver in London UK. Bate raised chickens and composted their droppngs in a "digester" which would distill Methane gas. (sewer gas...highly volitle) In Europe many of the commercial farms make their own fuels for farm equipment using this system.

    It can run Propane and natural gas also.

    These little kits used to be less than $40 dollars.

    EARTH MOVE
    Box 10121
    Portland, Oregon 97201

    I've worked with fork trucks which run Propane and they get much longer service lives than those running gasoline. If you have to pull one down you'll be amazed at how clean they are inside.

    If you want to read about this thing of Harold Bate and or convert your bike or car to run on Propane or Natural Gas....or if you can get chicken or turkery dung to set up your own plant to make Methane with...........

    Put a chicken in your tank

    Happy New Years from ol' eDJ
     
  8. Bikeguy Joe

    Bikeguy Joe Godfather of Motorized Bicycles

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    Now we just need someone to run an O+R Chicken Power kit with, er, chicken "power"
     
  9. spad4me

    spad4me New Member

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    Propane and NOS
    If you use chicken ^%$$# will it be a Chinese chicken girl engine.
    Chinese chicken
    Sounds like Take out
     
  10. eDJ

    eDJ New Member

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    Perhaps.......Year of the Chicken....HT.
     
  11. Dan

    Dan Staff
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    eDJ, I always enjoy reading your insights! That is good news about the internal condition of the engine. and service life. Hope you can make one of the eastern rallys this yr.

    ....If we were to market these; "Bate's motel motor bikes, we aint chicken shizit" or ok, I got nuton but could be funny. And just imagine the emoticon Hiker would make! LOLOLOL
     
  12. eDJ

    eDJ New Member

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    LOL....bless you Dan.....I'm glad you can benefit from what I know. :)

    One thing I forgot to mention and that was the motor oil used in a 4cycle motors fueled with
    Propane, Natural Gas, or low sulphur Diesel. Our LP conversion kit supplier for those fork trucks told us about a "Low Ash" content
    oil made by Penzoil back then. It runs better in a LP fueld motor and doesn't crud the engine up
    like a conventional motor oil for a gasoline motor.

    These oils are specially formulated with low ash, low phosphorous oil stocks. Several companies make this stuff for fleeted vehicles and it may range from synthetic to mineral base. It's usually suggest
    for use in natural gas & propane fueled fleet vehicles.....and some oil producers claim it will double
    the service life of the motor.

    I know Penzoil made it, Valvoline, and Amsoil. And custom lube companies like D-A Lubricants distribute it also. I just don't know about setting up 2cycle LP applications with piston port inductions like these HT's here use. It would seem they would need an oil pump and injection system....if there is even a low ash 2 stroke oil available. The 4cycle motors wouldn't be a problem to run on propane.

    Here's what Valvoline says:

    Premium Blue GEO Engine Oil

    How it works:

     
  13. bbassfisher

    bbassfisher New Member

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    Correct me if I am wrong . .Doesn,t propane have a lower btu or thermal unit than gasoline(petrol)? Also won,t oil need to be injected since propane is already in a vapor state when injested and is basicaly "dry"?
     
  14. eDJ

    eDJ New Member

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    Yes, you're quite right. That's what I was trying to get at when I wrote this:

    These HT engines are really kinda similar to what the Japanese brought to the USA in the late 50's and early 60's. Piston port 2 strokes are rather cheap and dirty design wise. The Japanese went with rotary valves and then to reed valve inductions fairly quickly. But never did they experiment with gas vapor
    fuels like LP or Natural Gas. They also came up with oil pumps and injection fairly quickly in their
    evolutionary process. These HT's are really similar to the model airplane glow plug engines. (of course they have a clutch, ignition system, and carb which refines them so they can run at different speeds and pull different road grades)
     
  15. Dan

    Dan Staff
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    Hi BBassfisher. Am just learning this myself. Dunno about the BTUs but I am finding it would be close to gas in final MPGs. In a 4 stroke, the fuel is not the lube. So no injection would be needed. I had wondered too. Pretty much the only real difference is that the carb is running on a gas, not a liquid.
    Truth be told, I have never built one and can only say what I am reading. But thats the fun and thank you for bringing up questions. Together we will build the ULTIMATE MOTOR ASSISTED BICYCLE! (Then take over the world. with an oddly annoying buzzing sound. but shhh)

    Been thinking about this for 2 yrs and always seem to get side tracked. I really do appreciate the input. One of the goals of this new crazyness is that no community could openly bother a MBer on a emission free motor assisted bicycle. Wouldn't be PC (about the MB) hmmm, marketability...
     
  16. Dan

    Dan Staff
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    wow, if a 2 stroke could be made to work, would be great.

    Edit, just found this; Propane-Fueled Moped

    Some one, again, did my idea b4 I got to it.
     
    #16 Dan, Dec 28, 2008
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2008
  17. POPS

    POPS Member

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    I have done 75+ auto conversions. I was in the taxi industry for 7 years and have pulled wrenches for 40+ years. Propane has an octane rateing of 110 therefore you can raise the compression ratio to 12 to 1 and have no detanation problems. Compression = power. Changeing the timeing is the most important part of a propane conversion. It likes a real fast curve like old school racecars. 14 degrees initial with a full 40 degrees in by 2200 RPM. I think the biggest problem to get a 2 stroke to run on propane would be trying to figure out how much oil to inject and how to change the timeing. As far as the carb problem one could use a mixer which goes over the carb mouth there by utilizing the carb slider as throttle control. Try searching IMPCO propane parts and you should find lots of info. Because the way a 2 stroke takes on it's fuel and exhausts I would be leary on haveing the propane in the crank case ignite!!!???? Ka BOOM. Great idea but it would be way more doable on a 4 stroke. Just IMHO....POPS.kick2
     
  18. POPS

    POPS Member

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    Dan...Now you beat me to it as while I was typeing you were posting:-|| POPS
     
  19. Dan

    Dan Staff
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    pops!!! Very cool! Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Do you think I can alter a stock carb? (Not real important, me thunks) Throttle is my big confusion so far. Others have done it, but YBNormal!
     
  20. POPS

    POPS Member

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    Dan...You would not have to change a thing on the carb. The mixer clamps directly over the intake of the carb and uses the vacuum of the motor to draw the fuel in. The more you open your throttle the more vacuum and the more the mixer lets the fuel in via a spring loaded diaphram....POPS
     

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