Propane conversion

Dan

Staff
May 25, 2008
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This would be cool. Convert a 4 stroker to propane. In researching it, there are no great advantages other then cleaner burning fuel and being more "green" It would in fact cost more to build. I have not yet found any thing on engine longevity. Also I am only finding kits with a screw type throttle for generators, not some thing like a MB where it would need to be adjusted manually. Dunno, would just be a cool build.
The Emergency Preparedness Tip o'da Week.
scratg
 
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Dan

Staff
May 25, 2008
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Most of the kit providers I am reading say no, but lots of hints that is not as much bang. I honestly don't know. Another thing I am wondering with a complete (or nearly) burn, how would it effect the cylinder, piston and rings? Even with a 4 banger, wouldn't it need some carpola build up inside?

Is just another crazy thought. Could work well (I think) Throttle is the big hurdle that I know of. (YET)

Doubt it is really worth it, but will be fun to try.

Whats the worst that can happen? snork!

*a small explosion was reported in the Hartford area today. No one was reported injured but a bicyclist was found in Massachusetts*
 
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Dan

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May 25, 2008
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Been reading close to the same consumption as regular gas, Joe. was thinking 2, one liter tanks for the conversion kit. Would be more then my stock happy time tanks.
 
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Bikeguy Joe

Godfather of Motorized Bicycles
Jan 8, 2008
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Hmmmm... I was under the impression that they used a lot more fuel, but that was from a guy who drove a propane conversion around for his company. He probably didn't have a clue....sorta like me sometimes..bf.
 

eDJ

Member
Jul 8, 2008
530
0
16
Wayne National Forest
Dan wrote:

I have not yet found any thing on engine longevity. Also I am only finding kits with a screw type throttle for generators, not some thing like a MB where it would need to be adjusted manually.
There was a small company in Portland Oregon called Earth Move that made these carb kits off the patten held by Harold Bate.....a WW2 TAXI driver in London UK. Bate raised chickens and composted their droppngs in a "digester" which would distill Methane gas. (sewer gas...highly volitle) In Europe many of the commercial farms make their own fuels for farm equipment using this system.

It can run Propane and natural gas also.

These little kits used to be less than $40 dollars.

EARTH MOVE
Box 10121
Portland, Oregon 97201

I've worked with fork trucks which run Propane and they get much longer service lives than those running gasoline. If you have to pull one down you'll be amazed at how clean they are inside.

If you want to read about this thing of Harold Bate and or convert your bike or car to run on Propane or Natural Gas....or if you can get chicken or turkery dung to set up your own plant to make Methane with...........

Put a chicken in your tank

Happy New Years from ol' eDJ
 

Dan

Staff
May 25, 2008
12,775
107
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Moosylvania
Dan wrote:



There was a small company in Portland Oregon called Earth Move that made these carb kits off the patten held by Harold Bate.....a WW2 TAXI driver in London UK. Bate raised chickens and composted their droppngs in a "digester" which would distill Methane gas. (sewer gas...highly volitle) In Europe many of the commercial farms make their own fuels for farm equipment using this system.

It can run Propane and natural gas also.

These little kits used to be less than $40 dollars.

EARTH MOVE
Box 10121
Portland, Oregon 97201

I've worked with fork trucks which run Propane and they get much longer service lives than those running gasoline. If you have to pull one down you'll be amazed at how clean they are inside.

If you want to read about this thing of Harold Bate and or convert your bike or car to run on Propane or Natural Gas....or if you can get chicken or turkery dung to set up your own plant to make Methane with...........

Put a chicken in your tank

Happy New Years from ol' eDJ
eDJ, I always enjoy reading your insights! That is good news about the internal condition of the engine. and service life. Hope you can make one of the eastern rallys this yr.

....If we were to market these; "Bate's motel motor bikes, we aint chicken shizit" or ok, I got nuton but could be funny. And just imagine the emoticon Hiker would make! LOLOLOL
 

eDJ

Member
Jul 8, 2008
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Wayne National Forest
LOL....bless you Dan.....I'm glad you can benefit from what I know. :)

One thing I forgot to mention and that was the motor oil used in a 4cycle motors fueled with
Propane, Natural Gas, or low sulphur Diesel. Our LP conversion kit supplier for those fork trucks told us about a "Low Ash" content
oil made by Penzoil back then. It runs better in a LP fueld motor and doesn't crud the engine up
like a conventional motor oil for a gasoline motor.

These oils are specially formulated with low ash, low phosphorous oil stocks. Several companies make this stuff for fleeted vehicles and it may range from synthetic to mineral base. It's usually suggest
for use in natural gas & propane fueled fleet vehicles.....and some oil producers claim it will double
the service life of the motor.

I know Penzoil made it, Valvoline, and Amsoil. And custom lube companies like D-A Lubricants distribute it also. I just don't know about setting up 2cycle LP applications with piston port inductions like these HT's here use. It would seem they would need an oil pump and injection system....if there is even a low ash 2 stroke oil available. The 4cycle motors wouldn't be a problem to run on propane.

Here's what Valvoline says:

Premium Blue GEO Engine Oil

How it works:

Premium Blue GEO is formulated with premium quality paraffinic base stocks and additive components to provide outstanding lubrication of gaseous fueled engines. The ash content of the oil is minimized to reduce formation of "hot-spots" that can lead to increased Nox formulation and catalyst poisoning.
 

bbassfisher

New Member
Oct 13, 2008
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treasure coast fla.
Correct me if I am wrong . .Doesn,t propane have a lower btu or thermal unit than gasoline(petrol)? Also won,t oil need to be injected since propane is already in a vapor state when injested and is basicaly "dry"?
 

eDJ

Member
Jul 8, 2008
530
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Wayne National Forest
Yes, you're quite right. That's what I was trying to get at when I wrote this:

It would seem they would need an oil pump and injection system....if there is even a low ash 2 stroke oil available.
These HT engines are really kinda similar to what the Japanese brought to the USA in the late 50's and early 60's. Piston port 2 strokes are rather cheap and dirty design wise. The Japanese went with rotary valves and then to reed valve inductions fairly quickly. But never did they experiment with gas vapor
fuels like LP or Natural Gas. They also came up with oil pumps and injection fairly quickly in their
evolutionary process. These HT's are really similar to the model airplane glow plug engines. (of course they have a clutch, ignition system, and carb which refines them so they can run at different speeds and pull different road grades)
 

Dan

Staff
May 25, 2008
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Hi BBassfisher. Am just learning this myself. Dunno about the BTUs but I am finding it would be close to gas in final MPGs. In a 4 stroke, the fuel is not the lube. So no injection would be needed. I had wondered too. Pretty much the only real difference is that the carb is running on a gas, not a liquid.
Truth be told, I have never built one and can only say what I am reading. But thats the fun and thank you for bringing up questions. Together we will build the ULTIMATE MOTOR ASSISTED BICYCLE! (Then take over the world. with an oddly annoying buzzing sound. but shhh)

Been thinking about this for 2 yrs and always seem to get side tracked. I really do appreciate the input. One of the goals of this new crazyness is that no community could openly bother a MBer on a emission free motor assisted bicycle. Wouldn't be PC (about the MB) hmmm, marketability...
 

POPS

Member
Sep 8, 2008
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Vancouver Island BC .Canada
I have done 75+ auto conversions. I was in the taxi industry for 7 years and have pulled wrenches for 40+ years. Propane has an octane rateing of 110 therefore you can raise the compression ratio to 12 to 1 and have no detanation problems. Compression = power. Changeing the timeing is the most important part of a propane conversion. It likes a real fast curve like old school racecars. 14 degrees initial with a full 40 degrees in by 2200 RPM. I think the biggest problem to get a 2 stroke to run on propane would be trying to figure out how much oil to inject and how to change the timeing. As far as the carb problem one could use a mixer which goes over the carb mouth there by utilizing the carb slider as throttle control. Try searching IMPCO propane parts and you should find lots of info. Because the way a 2 stroke takes on it's fuel and exhausts I would be leary on haveing the propane in the crank case ignite!!!???? Ka BOOM. Great idea but it would be way more doable on a 4 stroke. Just IMHO....POPS.kick2
 

Dan

Staff
May 25, 2008
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Moosylvania
pops!!! Very cool! Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Do you think I can alter a stock carb? (Not real important, me thunks) Throttle is my big confusion so far. Others have done it, but YBNormal!
 

POPS

Member
Sep 8, 2008
311
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Vancouver Island BC .Canada
Dan...You would not have to change a thing on the carb. The mixer clamps directly over the intake of the carb and uses the vacuum of the motor to draw the fuel in. The more you open your throttle the more vacuum and the more the mixer lets the fuel in via a spring loaded diaphram....POPS