Need help with Fl. law please!!

[WayneC]

Motorbiker said...
"I would think with a small helper motor on the bicycle it would be still be generally recognized as a bicycle."

BINGO!

That's the way I've read that too. Regardless of type of motor; or any; or no motor.
"generally recognized" is key to the argument.
That's one reason I like the rack mount...it looks less 'motorcycle-ish. A little less prone to confusion. Usually, someone will come up and say, "...so you put a small motor on your bike". They clearly recognize it as a bicycle--motor added.

To whom it may concern: If you fight the charge in court, TAKE YOUR BIKE AS EVIDENCE. Let the judge decide what it is. IN FACT ask the judge, What do you see here? If they answer a bike (bicycle) with a motor, then it was just "recognized" as a bike!
Defense rests, your honor! LOL
Of course if the motor is oversized or you're fighting a DUI, all bets are off.
Well, that's my story and I'm sticking to it.
WC

 

[SANGESF]

(2) BICYCLE.--Every vehicle propelled solely by human power, and every motorized bicycle propelled by a combination of human power and an electric helper motor capable of propelling the vehicle at a speed of not more than 20 miles per hour on level ground upon which any person may ride, having two tandem wheels, and including any device generally recognized as a bicycle though equipped with two front or two rear wheels.
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and including any device generally recognized as a bicycle though equipped with two front or two rear wheels..

I would think with a small helper motor on the bicycle it would be still be generally recognized as a bicycle.

That part meant, if it has 3 wheels (tricycle), it's still a bicycle...

The small helper motor add on would make a bicycle generally recognized as one, if it were electric....

The small helper motor add on would make a bicycle NOT generally recognized as one, because in that same statute, they have the definition of a moped which includes (generally speaking) a bicycle with a gas motor on it.

 

[motorbiker]

That part meant, if it has 3 wheels (tricycle), it's still a bicycle...

The small helper motor add on would make a bicycle generally recognized as one, if it were electric....

The small helper motor add on would make a bicycle NOT generally recognized as one, because in that same statute, they have the definition of a moped which includes (generally speaking) a bicycle with a gas motor on it.

I don't have a picture but I put a 23cc friction drive kit on a lightweight bicycle with gears.

I would guess that most people would say it was a bicycle and after looking closer might say with a little motor on it.

There are not many mopeds built to be light weight like this.

It did not look like it was a motorcycle wanabee.

I agree with WayneC about that.

 

[WayneC]

That part meant, if it has 3 wheels (tricycle), it's still a bicycle...

The small helper motor add on would make a bicycle generally recognized as one, if it were electric....

The small helper motor add on would make a bicycle NOT generally recognized as one, because in that same statute, they have the definition of a moped which includes (generally speaking) a bicycle with a gas motor on it.

Well, that's your interpretation of it. How do you know what "that part meant"?
Generally recognized MEANS generally recognized, judge Sangesf.
I invite you to print out a couple of photos of motor bikes. Electric, ICE, trikes, 2 wheelers, and ask 10, 20, or whatever sampling of adults you wish--ones that may be on your jury-- and ask them to describe what they are looking at. Then report back here. I'll take you at your word on your results.
Nothing ventured; nothing gained (or lost).
The written statute has to be taken at it's word or the State Legislature can re-write it to clarify what is "meant".
...And why do you insist on twisting every argument you make into an electric only defense "(generally speaking)"?

 

[SANGESF]

Well, that's [/i]your interpretation of it. How do you know what "that part meant"?
Generally recognized MEANS generally recognized, judge Sangesf.
I invite you to print out a couple of photos of motor bikes. Electric, ICE, trikes, 2 wheelers, and ask 10, 20, or whatever sampling of adults you wish--ones that may be on your jury-- and ask them to describe what they are looking at. Then report back here. I'll take you at your word on your results.
Nothing ventured; nothing gained (or lost).
The written statute has to be taken at it's word or the State Legislature can re-write it to clarify what is "meant".
...And why do you insist on twisting every argument you make into an electric only defense "(generally speaking)"?
__________________

Yes that was MY interpretation.. Sue me.... Sheesh.....
And I didn't twist any argument, nor speak anything about electric bikes...

FS 316.003 – Definitions

(77) Moped –Any vehicle with pedals to permit propulsion by human power, having a seat or saddle for the use of the rider and designed to travel on not more than three wheels; with a motor rated not in excess of 2 brake horsepower and not capable of propelling the vehicle at a speed greater than 30 miles per hour on level ground; and with a power-drive system that functions directly or automatically without clutching or shifting gears by the operator after the system is engaged. If an internal combustion engine is used, the displacement may not exceed 50 cubic centimeters.

Let's be realistic here... A bicycle with a ICE motor used and conforms to the rest of that definition, IS a moped. In that statute, there is no definition as to HOW the motor is used (except for providing propulsion.) It doesn't matter in what FORM that propulsion is transferred to the vehice, just that it does.

Section (2) is a bicycle definition and section (77) is a moped definition.

If i took the definitions of the statutes, and showed them to people and THEN showed them the pictures, we all know what the outcome would be.

If I didn't show them the definitions and then asked to describe, THAT would be a different story, since they wouldn't have all the information provided to them first, which would mean, that a certain level of ignorance comes into play...

Ignorance, is no excuse for not following what's legal in your area. Ask any judge, prosecutor, defense attorney, or cop, and they'll agree with that statement.

 

[motorbiker]

I had a Kinetic for real moped and I could pedal about 100 feet ? before I could not pedal anymore !

I could push my old VW bug down the road with less strain !

Most mopeds were designed to pass the moped laws, not pedal.

Some of the motored bikes are a different breed.

The law has not caught up with this different breed.

Plead not guilty in Tampa. Chances are the cop that gave you the ticket won't even show up !

 

[SANGESF]

when's the new court date?

also, when it's all said and done would you be willing to show us any documents that dismiss any of the charges

 

[worksmanFL]

Hey Stick,

Whats the good news?

 

[worksmanFL]

Hi Sticks,

Hope all is well. I hate to be a nudge, but whats the good news?

 

[worksmanFL]

Hi Sticks,

Everything OK?

I hope all is well.

We havent heard from you in a while so give us a shout!

 

[SANGESF]

This is the usual problem....

We get all the information and when it's time that the court date is over, we don't hear from them again.

Happened last time, and finally after 9 months i got a response from another guy that had problems...

C'mon Sticks... Where are you? When's the court date?
We're all dying to know what the final outcome was.

 

[Fulltimer]

Maybe they locked him in stocks down in a dungeon!

Terry

 

[SANGESF]

I'm sure he's fine... I don't think they throw you in dungeons anymore... (That's like soooo last century!)

But seriously, I would really love to know what happened.

 

[Tad Bit Tipsy]

Guys, Florida law states that if your riding on the street under engine power you are considered a motor vehicle, which requires a motorcycle/moped license, period. On the sidewalk is different, there you can go under 20MPH and still be considered a pedestrian. Its when you hop off, even into a bicycle lane on the street, that the rules change. Good Luck and keep an eye out for bacon!

 

[SANGESF]

Guys, Florida law states that if your riding on the street under engine power you are considered a motor vehicle, which requires a motorcycle/moped license, period. On the sidewalk is different, there you can go under 20MPH and still be considered a pedestrian. Its when you hop off, even into a bicycle lane on the street, that the rules change. Good Luck and keep an eye out for bacon!

please show us the statutes that you are using as your information...

 

[Tad Bit Tipsy]

This is a pretty good look at the statues.
florida_law

 

[Tad Bit Tipsy]

Oh and the 20MPH is the "safe speed" pedestrian law, your not allowed to travel faster than that on a sidewalk or pedestrian walkway, yada yada. I myself have no license and ride all the time, with a 67cc. But I cruise, and don't hot rod around asking for trouble. That's the best way not to get messed with. Most cops in my town just give me the thumbs up/that's cool sign specially cause they see my helmet/lights/safety lights. Be a solution not a problem. Have proper safety gear. Goggles and gloves also make a good statement.

 

[SANGESF]

can you show me where to find the "safe pedestrian" law (statute)..... Because there IS a statute that states your not allowed to ride under motor power at all on sidewalks only human power

 

[Tad Bit Tipsy]

can you show me where to find the "safe pedestrian" law (statute)..... Because there IS a statute that states your not allowed to ride under motor power at all on sidewalks only human power

Don't know that one, I will look. My neighbor, an Escambia County Sheriff said that 20 was the max. He said that even electric and small gas stand up scooters are not allowed on the street without a moped license. And they too had to stay under 20MPH on the sidewalks. But the most he could do is write a reckless driving ticket for anything like that and it was up to the Judge's discretion as to whether or not fine the individual. Most of the time in a Motor Bicycle situation, unless the driver was really aggressive, or weaving around, stunting, etc. It would not be worth the court time. But we're talking grey area here. The laws are only guidelines for the court to make a decision, and law enforcement to decide if a violation has occured. Like I said earlier the safer you ride the less chance you have of being pulled over. L8R.

 

[SANGESF]

Don't know that one, I will look. My neighbor, an Escambia County Sheriff said that 20 was the max. He said that even electric and small gas stand up scooters are not allowed on the street without a moped license. And they too had to stay under 20MPH on the sidewalks. But the most he could do is write a reckless driving ticket for anything like that and it was up to the Judge's discretion as to whether or not fine the individual. Most of the time in a Motor Bicycle situation, unless the driver was really aggressive, or weaving around, stunting, etc. It would not be worth the court time. But we're talking grey area here. The laws are only guidelines for the court to make a decision, and law enforcement to decide if a violation has occured. Like I said earlier the safer you ride the less chance you have of being pulled over. L8R.

"Not 'worth', the courts time" now that's funny....

That translates into, "unless we can make $100's of dollars from this person, we won't bother with them"...

Unfortunately, that is sooo true.... It's funny how unless it makes the court alot of money, it's not "worth" it to them... It seems as if, it has nothing to do with safety, but the almighty dollar... But that's just my .02 (pun intended)

As for the statute about sidewalk riding....

FS 316.1995 – Driving upon Sidewalk or Bicycle Path

No person shall drive any vehicle other than by human power upon a bicycle path, sidewalk, or sidewalk area, except upon a permanent or duly authorized temporary driveway. A violation of this section is a noncriminal traffic infraction, punishable as a moving violation as provided in chapter 318.