Illinois resisdents please enter

[Kahlas]

To those interested I wrote a nice "I'm dumb what should I do," email to the Illinois DMV. Got a nice concise response back. Same response I got when I called. Took the liberty of marking an important bit of info in bold and underlines myself, and of course xxx-ed out personal info.


Response, Illinois Secretary of State Vehicle Services Department [email protected]

11:19 AM (9 hours ago)

to me
Thank you for directing your questions to the Office of the Secretary of State via the Internet.

A motorized pedal cycle is a motor-driven cycle whose speed attainable in one mile is 30 mph or less, which is equipped with a motor that produces 2 brake horsepower or less. If an internal combustion engine is used, the displacement shall not exceed 50 cubic centimeter displacement and the power drive system shall not require the operator to shift gears.

The operator must have a current, valid driver's license of any classification. A person without a driver's license who wishes to operate only a moped must obtain a Class L license. The owner must have a registration plate attached to the rear of the moped.

Please follow the link below for information regarding motorcycle and moped registration.

Motorcycle

Apply for Certificate of Title & Registration Electronically:

Electronic Registration and Title

The transaction also may be processed at your local full service SOS Facility.

Find the Nearest Facility

Secretary of State Driver Facilities

Should you have additional questions regarding this situation, please contact the Public Inquiry Division at (217) 785-3000. They will be happy to assist you.

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-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 1:17 AM
To: Office of the Illinois Secretary of State
Subject: Secretary Contact Form

NAME: xxxxxxxx

EMAIL: [email protected]

STREET: xxxxxxxx Dr,

CITY: xxxxxxxx

STATE: Illinois

ZIP: 61xxx

PHONE: 815xxxxxxx

REGARDING: null

MESSAGE:
I was recently stopped by a police officer and told that my mountain bike that I have installed a 48cc gas engine on needs to be plated and insured in order to be operated on the road legally. I would like to know how I go about getting a title and registering it in order to comply with state laws.

 

[SANGESF]

LOL..
For a MOPED YES... But it is NOT a moped..
You notice the DMV person did NOT give you the description of a low speed (gas) bicycle and instead gave you the definition of a moped?!? You know why? Because you gave them the option to pick what definition they wanted to.

Email again and ask HOW to title, register, plate and insure a low-speed gas bicycle...
There is a HUGE difference...

You asked an open ended question...

OF COURSE, The DMV WILL take the SAFEST route and give you the definition of a MOPED and then tell you where to go...

But we are NOT TALKING ABOUT MOPEDS!!!

Mopeds start their life as a moped, with a VIN and everything...

Leaving ANY kind of doubt with make the DMV person side with what a law enforcement officer says..

P.S. I just sent a message to them as well...
It goes like this...

I'm about to move to Illinois... I was told by a law enforcement officer in Chicago, that my low-speed electric bicycle would need to be titled, registered, plated and insured..
How do I go about doing that, so I can comply with Illinois law? Or do I even need to?

Let's see how THAT goes?
I bet I get a totally different response then you did.
Ok, officer? LOL

 

[SANGESF]

Well.. Lookie here...
Here is the response I got. It's a tad bit different than yours isn't it?!?


Thank you for directing your questions to the Office of the Secretary of State via the Internet.

Illinois state law does not require a low speed electric bicycle to be titled, licensed or insured. Illinois statute 625 ILCS 5/11-1516 governs the operation of low speed bicycles. *Text is attached below. *An operator of a low speed bicycle must follow the rules of the road that pertain to a bicycle.

625 ILCS 5/11-1516. Low-speed bicycles
Sec. 11-1516. Low-speed bicycles. (a) A person may operate
a low-speed electric bicycle or low-speed gas bicycle
only if the person is at least 16 years of age.
(b) A person may not operate a low-speed electric bicycle
or low-speed gas bicycle at a speed greater than 20 miles
per hour upon any highway, street, or roadway.
A person may not operate a low-speed electric bicycle
or low-speed gas bicycle on a sidewalk.
(d) Except as otherwise provided in this Section, the
provisions of this Article XV that apply to bicycles also
apply to low-speed electric bicycles and low-speed gas
bicycles.

(Source: P.A. 96-125, § 5.)
Effective Date.
This section is effective January 1, 2010, pursuant to Ill. Const.
(1970) Art. IV, § 10 and 5 ILCS 75/1.


CB/

-----Original Message-----
From:
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 9:59 PM
To: Office of the Illinois Secretary of State
Subject: Secretary Contact Form

NAME:

EMAIL:

STREET:

CITY:

STATE: *Florida

ZIP: *

PHONE: *954

REGARDING:

MESSAGE:
I'm about to move to Illinois... *I was told by a law enforcement officer in Chicago, that my low-speed electric bicycle would need to be titled, registered, plated and insured..
How do I go about doing that, so I can comply with Illinois law? Or do I even need to?

 

[SANGESF]

Oh and I sent another message as follows....

I'm planning on moving to Illinois from Florida and I want to make sure of the laws..
I'm looking for a response as to whether I need a drivers license or if one is even required for me to operate my low speed gas bicycle on Illinois roads... Please advise.

This is to alleviate ANY doubt whatsoever in the ONLY POSSIBLE "issue" that Kahlas may bring up as to the requirements of any kind for low speed gas/electric bicycles

 

[Kahlas]

Well the reason you guys are going to cause confusion is that you are saying that a MB that you only operate under 20 MPH is allowed by the exception, which is inaccurate. I MB only qualifies if it's not capable of going over 20 MPH. Going slow on a MB doesn't mean it's not going to fall under the MB laws. Now quit being trolls who are going to confuse people and cause tickets to others. So far you 2 have done nothing but try and argue and quote small parts of the law that prove your points without posting the entire law. I realize I posted just the Public Act that went into effect 1/1/2010 but you can look up each change in the code book if you look it up by chapter/title number.



Public Act 096-0125

SB0236 Enrolled LRB096 03293 AJT 13311 b

AN ACT concerning transportation.

Be it enacted by the People of the State of Illinois,
represented in the General Assembly:

Section 5. The Illinois Vehicle Code is amended by adding
Sections 1-140.10, 1-140.15, and 11-1516 and by changing
Section 1-146 as follows:

(625 ILCS 5/1-140.10 new)
Sec. 1-140.10. Low-speed electric bicycle. The term
"low-speed electric bicycle" has the same meaning ascribed to
it by Section 38 of the Consumer Product Safety Act (15 U.S.C.
Sec. 2085).

(625 ILCS 5/1-140.15 new)
Sec. 1-140.15. Low-speed gas bicycle. A 2 or 3-wheeled
device with fully operable pedals and a gasoline motor of less
than one horsepower, whose maximum speed on a paved level
surface, when powered solely by such a motor while ridden by an
operator who weighs 170 pounds, is less than 20 miles per hour.

(625 ILCS 5/1-146) (from Ch. 95 1/2, par. 1-146)
Sec. 1-146. Motor vehicle. Every vehicle which is
self-propelled and every vehicle which is propelled by electric
power obtained from overhead trolley wires, but not operated
upon rails, except for vehicles moved solely by human power,
and motorized wheelchairs, low-speed electric bicycles, and
low-speed gas bicycles. For this Act, motor vehicles are
divided into two divisions:
First Division: Those motor vehicles which are designed for
the carrying of not more than 10 persons.
Second Division: Those motor vehicles which are designed
for carrying more than 10 persons, those motor vehicles
designed or used for living quarters, those motor vehicles
which are designed for pulling or carrying freight, cargo or
implements of husbandry, and those motor vehicles of the First
Division remodelled for use and used as motor vehicles of the
Second Division.
(Source: P.A. 85-1010.)

(625 ILCS 5/11-1516 new)
Sec. 11-1516. Low-speed bicycles.
(a) A person may operate a low-speed electric bicycle or
low-speed gas bicycle only if the person is at least 16 years
of age.
(b) A person may not operate a low-speed electric bicycle
or low-speed gas bicycle at a speed greater than 20 miles per
hour upon any highway, street, or roadway.
A person may not operate a low-speed electric bicycle
or low-speed gas bicycle on a sidewalk.
(d) Except as otherwise provided in this Section, the
provisions of this Article XV that apply to bicycles also apply
to low-speed electric bicycles and low-speed gas bicycles.

Effective Date: 1/1/2010

 

[nightcruiser]

The section you hang on here has one sticking point:

"when powered solely by such a motor while ridden by an
operator who weighs 170 pounds, is less than 20 miles per hour"

You can NOT ride a MB "Powered solely by such a motor", you MUST pedal a MB to ride, cause we don't have a transmission, we have a human first gear...

 

[Kahlas]

The section you hang on here has one sticking point:

"when powered solely by such a motor while ridden by an
operator who weighs 170 pounds, is less than 20 miles per hour"

You can NOT ride a MB "Powered solely by such a motor", you MUST pedal a MB to ride, cause we don't have a transmission, we have a human first gear...

you saw a line that says you can go over 20 MPH and still fit under the law if you pedal also? Please point that out I must not have seen that additional exception. I know you wouldn't dare to post ignorance and misconceptions with a personal interpretation of the law. Especially after you said:

"If he is a police officer then he should understand he is law ENFORCEMENT, not the "LAW". Legislators write the laws, courts interpret them, police just enforce the laws, hence the term Law Enforcement. Police officers don't make or even interpret laws. So the opinion of Law Enforcement only goes as far as what is written on the ticket, from there it is up to the prosecuting attorney and judge (and jury if the charges warrant a jury trial). I'm pretty certain a ticket for simply riding a MB legally (under 20MPH) would be tossed out and never prosecuted. If there are other tickets from the stop, such as DUI, I'm pretty sure the MB related charges would still be tossed and the DUI charges would be brought to court, cause you can still get a DUI on even a pedal bike. "


I mean you wouldn't try to interpret the law for the judge or jury yourself at all would you. Wouldn't try to pointlessly argue with a guy on an internet forum who's only interest is helping others. Wouldn't try to cloud the issue at hand with allegations and misconceptions just to "win" and argument on the internet. You're a much better person than that.

 

[nightcruiser]

Funny what parts you hang on in my statements....

What you reprinted in bold is simply fact, police are LAW ENFORCEMENT, not the LAW. This whole conversation is based on "what a cop told you about your MB at gas station" (rough quote). Hence my statement of fact that the judge and or jury are the ultimate arbiters of law, not a police officer. Police write tickets for violations of laws or codes when the perceive them, the courts decide if the charges are valid or not.

I stand by my statement if a person is pulled over on a MB for DUI and is given a handful of tickets by the time he goes to court the MB charges will likely be dropped (if the violator properly represents himself) and DUI will be prosecuted (for sure, you CAN get a DUI on a pedal bicycle). If a cop tickets a MB rider for riding legally, other than his opinion of the category the MB fits into and requirement of registration (the root of your argument here), then the case would either have to go to court to have it decided, or the prosecutor could decide it's not worth the courts time to do so. Either way, in the end, I think a cop that is giving tickets for trivial and questionable violations such as this will have to look at his superiors, DA office and courts and justify his use of their valuable time and resources for such a trivial matter, which may or may not be a violation of the vehicle code depending on what the court decides. Keep in mind that your victory here would only mean the rider needs to register his bike with the DMV. I don't think MB's have a high enough priority in law enforcement to occupy the time and justify the cost of taking MB riders to court and consuming all those resources just to make them get a plate on their bicycle.

If it goes that far and the court does decide that MB's definitely need to be registered and plated then at that point I will consider taking those steps. Until the courts say I need to do that I will ride my bike safely and respectfully of my neighbors under 20MPH and not worry about it. I think we both put out our point of view here and everyone else can read and decide for themselves what they want to do. I am representing only my opinion here, it's every man for himself in this mean old world....
Good day.

PS your sarcastic insult directed at me, "You're a much better person than that", was not appreciated. I have been completely respectful toward you and feel you should be respectful to me as well. I don't know why you feel you need to go down that road here...

 

[Kahlas]

I'm hanging on the parts of your statements that are you saying that things are legal that aren't. I've since the beginning treated this post as a way for people who don't know the laws to come and see what the laws mean. You've done nothing but counter with opinions and misleading information. You last post was the first one where you've actually admitted you're going to do what you want and assume it's legal as apposed to your other posts saying that you're going to do what you want because it's legal. You personally I don't care about since you've shown your character to be less than reputable by trying to be misleading in a post that is intended to be informative. Keep your personal opinions out of the law because as you yourself said, the only people who interpret the law is the judge and if the judge allows a jury(as a judge can overrule a jury). Of course anyone who dismisses your rantings as egotistical strutting and looks at the letter of the law, and then complies with it will never get a ticket, let alone see the inside of a courtroom.

Stating you are a better person than that was a compliment, maybe I was wrong?

 

[SANGESF]

I thought it was really clear, that when I asked the DMV how to title, register, plate and insure a low speed (gas/electric) bicycle and they said, none needed, that would be the end of the discussion..
If the DMV states you dont need any of that, it kinda shows a low speed bike is NOT. A motor vehicle.. The only time you need a license of some form (IN ANY STATE), is because you wish to operate a motor vehicle.. Which Illinois obviously doesn't consider a low speed bicycle to be.

 

[nightcruiser]

I'm hanging on the parts of your statements that are you saying that things are legal that aren't. I've since the beginning treated this post as a way for people who don't know the laws to come and see what the laws mean. You've done nothing but counter with opinions and misleading information. You last post was the first one where you've actually admitted you're going to do what you want and assume it's legal as apposed to your other posts saying that you're going to do what you want because it's legal. You personally I don't care about since you've shown your character to be less than reputable by trying to be misleading in a post that is intended to be informative. Keep your personal opinions out of the law because as you yourself said, the only people who interpret the law is the judge and if the judge allows a jury(as a judge can overrule a jury). Of course anyone who dismisses your rantings as egotistical strutting and looks at the letter of the law, and then complies with it will never get a ticket, let alone see the inside of a courtroom.

Stating you are a better person than that was a compliment, maybe I was wrong?

First of all, your "compliment" is obviously an attempt to insult and incite me to step over the boundaries of politeness, pretty obvious in the context of this conversation.
Secondly, EVERYTHING posted here is opinion, your statements and mine included. The law has been posted here and everyone can read it for themselves, they can read what you have to say and what I have to say and make up their own minds. Until a court decides which category a MB falls under we don't know which opinion will be that of the court, and thus the law of the land. I could just as easily claim you are misleading people, but I feel you are entitled to your opinion and everyone else has to use their own judgment and do what they feel is right. Right here would be a good place for a backhanded compliment, but I will refrain from doing that because "I am a better person than that".
Good Day.

 

[SANGESF]

I don't know why there is ANY argument...
Directly from the DMV, they stated, no title, registration, plate or insurance is needed for a low speed gas/electric bicycle...

That's it! End of story.. No more arguments.. Done deal!

 

[Kahlas]

I don't know why there is ANY argument...
Directly from the DMV, they stated, no title, registration, plate or insurance is needed for a low speed gas/electric bicycle...

That's it! End of story.. No more arguments.. Done deal!

a lot of bikes do not fit the criteria of low speed bike in Illinois, mine for one does not. Most bike motor kits won't fit it either. most bike motors will definitely go over 20 MPH, and if someone's doesn't then good for them. However I wouldn't want to be the guy found at fault for an accident on a "low speed bike" without insurance. Try covering the damages on a Lexus out of pocket. Sure you can "by law" get around registering a low speed bike(and you need to be registered to apply for most insurance) but how smart is that going to be.

 

[SANGESF]

If you simply operate your low speed (gas/electric) bicycle under 20mph... Which IS the LAW.. (It does NOT say capable, it says operated) Then you should never have a problem.. They state that if you are riding under 20mph, then you are(should be) following the same rules as a regular bicycle.

If you ride over 20mph, then you are breaking the law. Simple.. Don't do it!

It's the same kinda thing as a car.. Most cars can do over 65-70.. They don't outlaw cars, only the max speed they are allowed to operate them.

Your original argument was that you HAVE to reg/ins/plate etc a low speed gas/electric bike and need a license to operate it (also that's it's considered a motor vehicle) .. And that's just not true.

You then start off on different tangents once your original argument didn't hold up. You are saying anyone other than you is ignorant of the law... If they have ANY doubts, all they have to do is go to the DMV, ask about registering/plating/insuring/etc, their low speed gas/electric bike (AGAIN, NOT a moped) and see what the outcome is..
If it's not needed, then all they have to do is have that printed up on DMV letterhead and signed by a supervisor and carry that with them and ride under 20mph and if they get pulled over, show that documentation and you'll be ok!

 

[Kahlas]

(625 ILCS 5/1-140.15 new)
Sec. 1-140.15. Low-speed gas bicycle. A 2 or 3-wheeled
device with fully operable pedals and a gasoline motor of less
than one horsepower, whose maximum speed on a paved level
surface, when powered solely by such a motor while ridden by an
operator who weighs 170 pounds, is less than 20 miles per hour.

That says distinctly that if the MB is capable of going over 20 mph then the low speed exception does not apply. You can't just take a MB and attempt to never go over 20 MPH and have the exception apply. A previous poster on this very forum found that out a few years ago when he tried to have the courts see his bike as a low speed MB, but the cop said he was going over 20 so they nailed him.

Also go back and read carefully, at no point was I trying to talk about the exception, only the normal law as it applies to MB's. The exception is something you brought up and apparently have yet to understand.

Just like a MB doesn't fall under the moped law if it goes over 30 MPH, at that point the operator needs a class L license but most of the other necessities(registration, plates, and insurance) still apply. A point that I wasn't real interested in talking about either since it's another exception to the standard rule.

Got it yet or do you need to reply again with more misunderstandings?

 

[Catfisher]

Kahlas, stating that the vast majority of all motorized bicycles do not qualify under the written Illinois law or under the performance limitations of Illinois law as motorized bicycles is 100 % true.

But this is all just beating a dead horse. We've been through this subject many times. To be legal with a gas engine you would need to stay about 25 cc's; although a Robin Subaru 32 cc might be ok.

Anything that obviously exceeds 1 hp, as in 48 cc and 66 cc engines, are not legal as a low powered motor assisted bicycle. That's why post after post asks how to disguise the true size of their engine. People remove engine ID tags all the time to muddy the waters. Deep down if you already ride a china girl, you know it's not "technically" legal.

I don't want anybody getting hassled or ticketed on a CG, just understand and admit to yourself it really doesn't meet the "Letter of the Law".

If you read enough of the other IL threads, you will know I asked the judge to clarify some MB issues, and the judge refused to take a stand. I was basically told they would decide the legality only after I get ticketed. I can't risk any tickets or arrests, so I don't ride.

Everybody ride safe and stay cool.

 

[Barnfresh]

Kahlas - After reading through your previous post I was just curious if you consider such a thing as a "Low-speed gas bicycle" as defined in Sec. 1-140.15 even exist. And if not, what do you think the law was written for?

 

[Kahlas]

I wouldn't say that most bikes in Illinois don't fit under the low speed bike rule myself, but that's just because it's an opinion and I hate to post them without a disclaimer. Oh wait that was a disclaimer, okay I don't think that most MB's in Illinois fall under the low speed bike law. That's why I was purely trying to keep on topic about the normal MB laws that require registration, insurance and a license. I'm not going to say my MB goes over 30 MPH in one mile of acceleration because I have certain rights under the 5th amendment.
I did read you whole thread Cat and I thought that sounded very lawyer-ly for the both of them to say, "no comment till we're prosecuting you." which to me sounds like the answer to your question right there.
One of the first steps to not getting stopped and caught with more serious violations(not saying everyone is going to have a violation) is a nice shiny Illinois plate on the back of my MB. Cop sees that, my brake lights, turn signals, and proper eye protection he will probably not even think twice about me.
It's crazy the way the law even works. I have epilepsy which requires me to go 6 months between seizures to drive a car, after a seizure I must wait 6 months again. It's been more than 6 months and the law says I can drive again, but I'd really like to not kill anyone so I drive a MB, even in the wonderful cold Illinois winters.
All that being said I think there is a need for clarification of the laws. And maybe a few tweaks.

 

[Kahlas]

Kahlas - After reading through your previous post I was just curious if you consider such a thing as a "Low-speed gas bicycle" as defined in Sec. 1-140.15 even exist. And if not, what do you think the law was written for?

I'm 100% sure some bikes will qualify, a lot of electric bikes for starters have to trade speed for endurance since 4 miles on a charge doesn't appeal to people. I'm sure some smaller motors and some geared for torque would easily fall under the exception.
I know others have different ideas when they build their MB but me personally I wanted to be able to cruise at 30. This is because as my previous post explains, my MB is to me what most people's cars are to them. It's my only way to maintain any independence mobility without putting innocent people's lives at risk.

 

[Barnfresh]

Thanks and I know what you're saying about the sort operating distances before recharging an electric bike. A few post back you stated the low speed law says distinctly that if the MB is capable of going over 20 mph then the low speed exception does not apply. I didn't see where it said capable only less than 20MPH within a given set of parameters. Did I miss something or are you reading that somewhere else?