FL Gas Motorized Bicycle Registration NOT Required as of 04/20/2011

[SANGESF]

Re: FL Gas MB Registration NOT Required as of 04/20/2011

As of this moment in time (actually, as of late April) the DMV procedural document states that you can NOT, nor do you need to register you're bicycle with an attached gas motor.

That can change at any time.
(I will post any updates I recieve).

 

[4950cycle]

Re: FL Gas MB Registration NOT Required as of 04/20/2011

Thats great ! How do I locate and print the stuff I should have on hand again if a an ignorant Po Po stops me ? I believe workmanFL showed me but I cant remember.

 

[SANGESF]

Re: FL Gas MB Registration NOT Required as of 04/20/2011

Go here..

http://www3.flhsmv.gov/DMV/Proc/TL/TL-10.PDF

If you have a "smartphone" with web access and the ability to open up PDFs, then just bookmark it.

P.S. The above is the most recent as of April 20, 2011.
The pertinent section is the last question in "Exhibit F".

 

[4950cycle]

Re: FL Gas MB Registration NOT Required as of 04/20/2011

Ok, I'm now covinced. I saw that other bloody Shariffs office redderick that was kind of old info and got mixed up. I now see the new info regarding a more resent veiw of motorized bikes "Now" being classified as just bicycles in exibit F. Works like a charm for me ! Now, next question legal Gurus, My 21 year old son can't get his FL. DL. at the present moment. Don't ask LOL Its a long story. Anyway, can he ride a gas powered motor bicycle at the present time legally to get to a job ? Thanks again Sangesf, worksmanFL

 

[SANGESF]

Re: FL Gas MB Registration NOT Required as of 04/20/2011

Call your local police department AND the DMV main office and ask them...
(If you talk to your local PD and they say no DL needed, then they won't bother your son, or try to ticket him.)
If you want "legal advice" best to do is contact a lawyer.

Most everyone will tell you no DL required, but the only legal advice you can really get is FROM a LAWYER.

That being said, it seems, as long as the engine size is 49cc and under and it's not capable of going over 20mph, then you should be able to ride one without a license.
(According to a recent email from someone at the FL DMV main office that says as long as it has the same limitations as an electric bike as referenced in Title XXIII, Chapter 316.003(2), then no DL required)

 

[4950cycle]

Re: FL Gas MB Registration NOT Required as of 04/20/2011

Thanks Sang, First anybody has said afaik about the equivelent of an electric bike standard, huh.. Interesting. BTW what is a Troll ?

 

[worksmanFL]

Re: FL Gas MB Registration NOT Required as of 04/20/2011

Thanks Sang, First anybody has said afaik about the equivelent of an electric bike standard, huh.. Interesting. BTW what is a Troll ?

"Sang" -
Contacting your local police dept makes sense.

a. So wheres the "copy/paste" of this "new email", as I did, re: electric equivalent?
b. Why reconfirm with the DMV main office re DL with a gas MB 20mph or less when 1/2 a dozen other people confirmed this and shared this info, I confirmed this AND POSTED the info IMMEDIATELY with the forum with all contact info of DMV rep, as well as YOU confirming it?
c. Yes... troll? What do you mean?

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result."

4590cycle -
"Sang" and Me have a history of "lively discussions" on FL reg. lic, and law. He was adamant that a DL is needed, and as i've said after the 04/20/2011 DMV Procedure update, IMHO I was right, and 100% CONFIRMED with the info/ email info shared with the forum from a DMV rep at the main office a few days back.

And yes, ---> no DL needed, gas MB 20mph or less.

I hope this is helpful.

Freedom is not free - please remember the brave who lost their lives serving our country.
Have a great Memorial Day Weekend All!

 

[4950cycle]

Re: FL Gas MB Registration NOT Required as of 04/20/2011

I will stay out of that one.. Thnkx workmanFL, My son will be happy as heck to hear that !

 

[SAVED1]

Re: FL Gas MB Registration NOT Required as of 04/20/2011

thank you for making this thread i have been looking for information pertaining to this very subject.

 

[worksmanFL]

Re: FL Gas MB Registration NOT Required as of 04/20/2011

thank you for making this thread i have been looking for information pertaining to this very subject.

You are Welcome!

Please let me/ the forum know if we can help you further.

To the best of my ability, I promise you i'll share with all info. in a "cut to the chase" manner.

Ride that Thing!

 

[SAVED1]

Re: FL Gas MB Registration NOT Required as of 04/20/2011

You are Welcome!

Please let me/ the forum know if we can help you further.

To the best of my ability, I promise you i'll share with all info. in a "cut to the chase" manner.

Ride that Thing!

thanks i'll keep that in mind. i'm new here to this forum and i am in the middle of my first gas engine bike build.

 

[4950cycle]

Re: FL Gas MB Registration NOT Required as of 04/20/2011

Yea, Thanks Lou, I have been more at ease now about riding that thang now that I know I have a leg to stand on when I'm talking to the Man. Getting a half way decent exhaust sytem put on it today. After I weld it up and mount it I will enjoy riding much more without that can right by me bum.

 

[SANGESF]

Re: FL Gas MB Registration NOT Required as of 04/20/2011

Well, here is the response to the question I asked about the (lack of) registration allowed on bicycles with a gas motor..

Executive Director Julie Jones has asked me to respond to your email dated*
June 2, 2011, regarding bicycle license requirements.*

Bicycles are not manufactured for use on highways. *Adding a gas powered motor does not make a bicycle street legal, as there are other requirements that must be met, such as frame assembly and safety features. *Bicycles are not titled or registered.*

Sincerely,
SANDRA C. LAMBERT, Director
Division of Driver Licenses

So..apparently the reason you can't register a bicycle with a gas motor, is because a bicycle with a gas motor does not have the required safety equipment to allow it's use on the road.

P.S. I've asked for further clarification with some added questions, as follows...
Ms. Adams,

I am confused...

On one hand you state that adding a gas powered motor does not make a bike street legal, but in the next paragraph, you state that Florida statutes permit a person to operate a bicycle that cannot propel faster then 20mph, without a DL.

Can you see where I am confused?
A gas powered motor (incapable of greater than 20mph) does not make it street legal, but the statutes say an electric bicycle with the same stipulations does make it street legal.

As you can see, there seems to be confusion when asking specifically about gas powered motors on bicycles...

The assumption I have is that if you add a gas powered motor to a bicycle, it's not street legal, but if you add an electric motor, it is. (According to 316.003(2))

I have asked specific questions and as of yet, no one has been able to give me specific answers...

If you can, please provide specific answers to each of the below questions....
The following questions are still unclear...

1.) What size gas powered engine is allowed on a bicycle.
Answer:??

1a.) If a bicycle has a 49cc engine, is there a Class E Drivers License required?

Answer:??


2.) Is there any situation that would allow the use of a gas powered engine on a bicycle without the need for a Class E DL.
Answer:??

3.) If a bicycle with an electric helper motor that allows it to be capable of greater than 20mph need a Class E Drivers License?


Answer:??

 

[4950cycle]

Re: FL Gas MB Registration NOT Required as of 04/20/2011

Lets see if she dances around that email. The previous information clearly states thet a bicycle with a motor is still considered a bicycle ! in that case the women just stated a bicycle is not street legal. Myself, I wouldn't believe her. The state and county employees are expert CYA ers. They always want someone else to answer any questions that might land them in hot water so they can whistle on down the road till that comfy State / county retirement.

 

[SANGESF]

Re: FL Gas MB Registration NOT Required as of 04/20/2011

All,

** This is the final word direct from the Executive Director at the Florida HSMV (DMV)...

Emails over a weeks time have gotten these answers...


Good Afternoon,
*
I will address your latest concerns . . . in red, below.
*
You stated . . .
Ms. Adams,
*
I am confused . . .
*
On one hand you state that adding a gas powered motor does not make a bike street legal, but in the next paragraph, you state that Florida Statutes permit a person to operate a bicycle that cannot propel faster than 20mph, without a DL.
*
Response: *Ms. Adams/Ms. Lambert stated:
*
“Bicycles are not manufactured for use on highways. *Adding a gas powered motor does not make a bicycle street legal, as there are other requirements that must be met, such as frame assembly and safety features. *Bicycles are not titled or registered.
*
Florida Statutes permits a person to operate a bicycle that cannot propel faster than 20 miles per hour, without a regular Class E driver license.”
*
To elaborate, Florida Statutes permits a person, if at least 16 years old, to operate a bicycle with an electric helper-motor (not gas powered because gas powered bicycles are not street legal and cannot be ridden on the streets) not capable of propelling the bicycle faster than 20 mph on level ground (322.03(1), 322.01(26) and 316.003(2), Florida Statutes).
*
Can you see where I’m confused?
A gas powered motor (incapable of greater than 20mph) does not make it street legal, but the statutes say an electric bicycle with the same stipulations does make it street legal.
*
Response: *Again, gas powered bicycles are not street legal and are therefore, not legally allowed on the roads/streets.
*
As you can see, there seems to be confusion when asking specifically about gas powered motors on bicycles.
*
The assumption I have is that if you add a gas powered motor to a bicycle, it’s not street legal, but if you add an electric motor, it is. *(According to 316.003(2))
*
Response: *Yes.
*
I have asked specific questions and as of yet, no one has been able to give me specific answers . . .
*
If you can, please provide specific answers to each of the below questions . . . .
The following questions are still unclear . . .
*
1. * * * What size gas powered engine is allowed on a bicycle.

Answer: *None, legally.

1a. *If a bicycle has a 49cc engine, is there a Class E drivers license required?
Answer: *Gas powered bicycles are not legally allowed on the road.

2. * * * Is there any situation that would allow the use of a gas powered engine on a bicycle without the need for a Class E DL?

Answer: *See answer to 1a, above.

3. * * * If a bicycle with an electric helper motor that allows it to be capable of greater than 20mph need a Class E drivers license?

Answer: *Yes.

*
If you have additional questions, please don’t hesitate to contact me directly at 850.617.2528, or the FRTP Program Manager, Kip Bickford, at 863.419.3420 (ext. 2).
*
*
BE SAFE, HAVE FUN – ENJOY THE RIDE!!
FLORIDA RIDER TRAINING PROGRAM
Bureau of Motorist Compliance
2900 Apalachee Parkway
Room A201, Mail Station #88
Tallahassee, Florida *32399
(850) 617-2528
Fax. 850-617-5172
Florida Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles - Florida Rider Training Program
*
*
The Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles is committed to Service, Integrity, Courtesy, Professionalism, Innovation and Excellence in all we do. Please let us know how we are doing via our online customer service survey at Official Website Florida Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles.
*


After it's all said and done...

You can NOT legally register a bicycle with a gas motor attached of ANY size, NOR may you ride it (under motor power) on public roads.
(This is, of course, unless you've already had it registered as a homemade moped, then I would guess you would be grandfathered in.)
For those already grandfathered in, you need a Class E driver's license to operate your moped on public roads.

 

[SANGESF]

Re: FL Gas MB Registration NOT Required as of 04/20/2011

Lets see if she dances around that email. The previous information clearly states thet a bicycle with a motor is still considered a bicycle !

Correct,

However, the information (answer) was referencing electric motors (hence the reference to 316.003(2)) which states nothing about gas motors.

Yes, the question was about gas motors, but the answer was talking about electric motors...

I have sent an email to the person that updates those PDFs, to have them specifically answer ABOUT GAS motors.

 

[worksmanFL]

Re: FL Gas MB Registration NOT Required as of 04/20/2011

Hi All,

Sang,

Some may be mad at you for stirring the pot like I WAS.

"The truth shall set you/ us free." It is what it is.

You may have inadvertently affected small FL gas MB retailers business by bringing this to light.

Sigh...

I think you had good intentions, but unfortunately the answers were not what the gas MB Community was looking for.

Thanks for the clarifications, and please continue to let us know what the DMV's additional responses are.

Again from my point of view, speaking to ONE DMV rep, and getting their name, email, phone #, and an email response to this (as I did, shared and posted to the MB forum) is good enough for me and most likely the majority of gas MBers IMHO.

Being "grandfathered in" - its a good thing!

 

[SANGESF]

Re: FL Gas MB Registration NOT Required as of 04/20/2011

All I wanted were answers...
That's it...
Don't really care what the answers were...
When I could, I asked open ended questions, asked to be forwarded to supervisors, until I finally just ended up asking THE TOP person at the DMV.. The executive director sent me to the person who gave me those answers provided.

Do what you want with the information.
Agree with it.
Disagree with it.
It doesn't matter.. It is what it is.

It's ALWAYS up to the individual to find out the answers for THEMSELVES..
I personally wanted direct answers to direct questions, without a "grey area".
I got, what I got and posted here, take it there for yourselves to do what you want with it.

 

[buhz]

Re: FL Gas MB Registration NOT Required as of 04/20/2011

I thought you said you drove electric ,WHY the frig do you care about gas thanks for all the problems to come

 

[SANGESF]

Re: FL Gas MB Registration NOT Required as of 04/20/2011

I WANTED to use a gas motor..
HAD to make SURE I could, without a license.
That's all. Nothing more, nothing less.
I was HOPING to get a different answer, than I did.
Didn't turn out that way.
Every time I was told I didn't need one, I asked that person to send me an official, signed document stating as such.
When I DID finally receive a letter (actually two) from the people who stated I didn't need a license, the letter stating NOTHING about a gas motor or drivers license. When I asked for a letter with statements including gas and no license, I was told to email their supervisor for that..
That turned into going up the ladder at the DMV, little by little, until I broke down and just emailed the Executive Director. The Executive Director, sent my email to her direct subordinate who gave me the answers I posed an posted here.