Don't DROOL on your keyboards...

ebmvegan

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Jul 15, 2008
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If you take a look at that Brough Superior SS100, that's the same model of Brough that T.E. Lawrence (Lawrence of Arabia) was killed on in 1935.
eDJ, you are a wealth of information. You are a true Renaissance man.:)
 

Jemma Hawtrey

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Dec 29, 2007
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Interesting machine in the picture... for the life of me I cant work out what is at the aft end of that motor.. I can see the motor is a single cylinder but the rest of it confuses me..

Incidentally that front fork I have seen used on the old Royal Enfield machines of the 1920s..

Jemma xx
 

Jemma Hawtrey

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Dec 29, 2007
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If you take a look at that Brough Superior SS100, that's the same model of Brough that T.E. Lawrence (Lawrence of Arabia) was killed on in 1935.
Incidentally there were two manufacturers had models called the SS100 - Brough and Jaguar... post 1945 the jaguar was canned or renamed (im not sure which) because of the connotations of the SS moniker.

Strange to say but until the Germans got hold of it - the Swastika was a sign generally held to be of good luck (with the arms pointing the other way) as it was an ancient representation of the sun disc..

Jemma xx
 

Jemma Hawtrey

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Jaguar used to be called the "SS Motors" or somesuch no?
Jaguar were known as SS Jaguar pre-war, I dont know why - but at that time they were an independant company. Later they became part of BLMC which became British Leyland and later still Austin Rover (although by that time Jaguar were decidedly unrelated unless you forced the point... sadly their electrical systems werent..)
 

eDJ

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eDJ, you are a wealth of information. You are a true Renaissance man. :)
LOL, bless you ebmvegan :oops:

I've studied Colonol Lawrence since school days. His book "The Seven Pillars of Wisdom" was back then my first effort in trying to understand the Mid East and his vision for assisting it's transition into modern times. Also a map he created
to redefine it's boarders may have enabled a more stable & peaceful region today, yet the status accorded to his lower rank in the military then lead his ranking officers to unconsciously dismiss his genius for that theater of WW1.
 

Jemma Hawtrey

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Dec 29, 2007
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LOL, bless you ebmvegan :oops:

I've studied Colonol Lawrence since school days. His book "The Seven Pillars of Wisdom" was back then my first effort in trying to understand the Mid East and his vision for assisting it's transition into modern times. Also a map he created
to redefine it's boarders may have enabled a more stable & peaceful region today, yet the status accorded to his lower rank in the military then lead his ranking officers to unconsciously dismiss his genius for that theater of WW1.
That and the fact he was considered to have 'gone native' at the time - which was frowned upon by the PTB.

It wasnt so much that they just dismissed it, there was a fair chunk of 'thats not what we want to happen' mixed in there too. The British had promised so many people ownership of the same bits of land that by the end of the war they didnt know whether they were coming or going - sadly thats the way it has stayed ever since out that way.

I love history, but one of the things I dont like so much about it is that generally the devious/nasty/generally unpleasant get away with it and leave innocents to pick up the pieces (or in the case of the middle east - be the pieces)

Jemma xx
 

eDJ

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That and the fact he was considered to have 'gone native' at the time - which was frowned upon by the PTB.

It wasnt so much that they just dismissed it, there was a fair chunk of 'thats not what we want to happen' mixed in there too. The British had promised so many people ownership of the same bits of land that by the end of the war they didnt know whether they were coming or going - sadly thats the way it has stayed ever since out that way.

I love history, but one of the things I dont like so much about it is that generally the devious/nasty/generally unpleasant get away with it and leave innocents to pick up the pieces (or in the case of the middle east - be the pieces)
Interesting that.

With the Ottoman Turks having sided with the Kaiser during WW1 I'm sure the British realized the strategic value the oil reserves in the mid east would have to Germany. And since the Turks were the overlords of that area we call the mid east today, defeating their influance there would be imparitive for future British security. Certainly it would have made things quite different for the Germans by the time of WW2 as the Fascist saw piecetime only as a time of preparing for the next wars.

For Lawrences part, he wasn't thinking about the next world war I'm sure. None the less his unconventional Gorrila warfare was likely one of many desperate acts in that time to broker the necessary outcome at any cost. The high command would have had more insight to the outcome that was needed even if promising spoils was their only avenue to those ends.

In a book by Steve Shagan titled, "The Formula" published in 1979 (fictional but based on obsucre facts regarding German Synthetic Fuel production from Coal during WW2) a reader can see why the efforts of those like Lawrence were so critical. It served to stop the Germans access to mid east oil while forcing them to expend their coal resources. Incredably the Germans were able to wage war by the late thirties and into the fourties with inconsistant crude oil supplies. Polesti in Rumania being one primary source. Synthetic fuel, oil, and heavy lubricantsl, etc produced from German Antricite allowed their war machine to be as formable as it was. Imagine the course of history had they secured the mid eastern oil supplies during WW1 ?

Shagan quotes Thomas Jefferson in the opening of "The Formula" citing

"Money, not Morality is the principle commerce of civilized nations".

That may hold the key to why the devious/nasty/generally unpleasant prevail
and the innocents pick up the pieces or become such.

"The Formula" was largely researched in Germany at the United States Mission, Berlin Documentation Center.
 

whiteoakharold

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Aug 13, 2008
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Here's a short history lesson. Standard Oil of NJ (who are they today?) had a contract with the Nazi's to sell them diesel fuel even if the USA entered the war (they also gave the process for making synthetic to the Nazi's) and did sell them fuel until the US Gov was on the verge of confiscating all the family's assets for TREASON but someone in the GOV that really worked for the Rocks tipped them off and Nelson (you remember our former VP) turned his father in and saved the family's treasure and oil wells. Nothing ever changes!!!
 

eDJ

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I've heard one other person mention something about that and he had worked
at the H-Coal Syn-Fuels HQ at the Cattletsburg, Kentucky Refinery till it was closed in the mid eighties. (Formerly Ashland Oil & Refining Company, makers of Valvoline motor oil) That place is down river from me about 20 miles.

Ironically fuel & oil was inexpensive then and more foreign import of it seemed a good idea at the time of a new morning in America. This was all about the time of Shagan's book. I remember the line Adam Steiffel speaks over to the phone to Franz Tauber, Swiss businessman near the end of the book that can tell us much, "Well Franz, if we mine it (the coal) now it's just coal.....but if we sit on it about 50 years.....it'll be gold".

Item: Presently in West Virginia mountain top coal removal is the principle strip mining taking place. Sen. Jay Rockefeller has most of his mines shut down....presumably waiting for the coal to turn to gold.

Yes, you're right..take your pick they are both the same & the more things change the more they seem to stay the same.

"Money, not Morality is the principle commerce of civilized nations".

My father used to tell me of his boyhood and watching granddad fill the tank with .11 cent a gallon (4liter) gasoline. Perhaps someday we motorbicycler's
will tell grand kids of fueling the 1 liter fuel tanks of our motorbikes for a dollar.
Hard to believe that could be vintage some day.

Thanks for mentioning that Whiteoakharold and helping to connect the dots.
 

whiteoakharold

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Aug 13, 2008
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Hey eDJ, My first gas price memory (from Gulfport, Miss.) is .15 for regular and .16 for Ethel, I never did figure out who Ethel was, that was Gulf gas, the Esso station across the street was a couple of cents higher. When you put .15 in a cigarette machine for a pack of regulars, you got a penny back under the cellophane, the vending machines didn't make change yet.
 

eDJ

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Jul 8, 2008
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My earliest memories of gas prices was listening to the adults around me swearing or calling on the saints in exasperation. That was right around 1970
and I was beginning to understand what pennies were good for. I was given a dime once when I wanted gum from a penny gum ball machine. (Poor dear Grandmother figured I'd use it to get ten pennies first) I came running back to her elated to report "the dime worked" ! (I wasn't aware yet that it would get me ten pennies....and that buy me ten balls of gum) I just put the dime in the gum ball machine and it gave me a gum ball.....pure bliss. I was thrilled and thought I had mastered the complexities of money....but that was short lived. Grandmother acted like I had just bankrupted the Federal Reserve Board.

Why didn't anyone tell me BEFORE I made a mistake.....insted of afterwards.

But by the time I was old enough to understand what gas stations were I was sitting in long lines at one hearing people cussing at each other and witnessing the occasional fight which always seemed to break out when some one got a metal can out of the trunk of their car to fill after filling their tank.
(like........hey, leave the rest of us some ! ) Gas may have been headed to 40 cent a gallon then. I remember always taking the white car or the blue car
and my folks talking about odd's and evens. Seemed the last number of the license plate had to match that days odd or even day policy. So the white car had the even and the blue the odd so every other day one of the two cars was driven. But I saw some dandy knock down drag out brawls in Gas Stations as a kid. We never had Soccer Hoolagans here in the states....and I was way too young to be taken around any of the road side beer bars on alcohol and firearms night. But those are just some of my youthful memories as a young Appalachian American boy in the early Appalachian Culture Centers....we called gas stations. Today we have Mega-Cultural Centers some still insist on calling WalMarts.
 

NEAT TIMES

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May 28, 2008
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Years Ago I Heard Something About Ww2 German Synthetic Oil Jelling In Cold Weather. The Panzer Tanks And Other Equipment Were Put Out Of Action. It Was Stated The War Outcome Could Have Been Altered. Anybody Have Info On That. Ron