BTR Ground Zero

[motorhedfred]

I've decided not to hack up my Schwinn Point Beach. Starting with an older, steel framed bike seems more logical since I can weld it at home. I'm looking at a couple of different ones on my local Craigslist.

1950's roadmaster

and

1950's Ladies Roadmaster - $80

Would either of these make a good foundation ?

I got the guy down to $150 on the first one...he's probably take a bit less because he's got a $h!tload of bikes and needs money. I'm thinking I could probably ebay the accessories I don't want and get some of the initial cost back.

The second one looks solid and it's cheaper, but not as many parts to sell. Am I seeing things on the blue one, or does it have some kind of funky springer on it ? If so, are they any good ?

What kind of suspension fork would fit these bikes that would look good on a BTR replica ? What bottom bracket would fit ?

I don't suppose anyone has a Rixe tandem girder that's taking up valuable space under the bed, in your closet, or shed...garage ? I'll gladly help you free up some room.

 

[Mr.B.]

Yes that is a functioning springer, however they tend to be pretty soft. I imagine you could find stiffer springs or perhaps helper springs that fit inside the originals.

At least you know it would fit the bike

-Kirk

 

[silverbear]

I'd go for the blue one and not fool around with ebaying parts. You're going to modify the frame anyway and have a good seat, handlebars and strong frame to work with. Why do you need to change the bottom bracket? How much room do you need for what engine? I don't see a springer fork on the other one, just truss rods which this one has, too. The first bike looks better and that's fine if you're leaving it alone, but that isn't what you're doing... you'll be changing the wheels or at least the spokes, new tires and different paint anyway, so put your money into what counts... that frame, seat and handlebars. That's what I'd do anyway. Should make a good foundation for a build... leave the bottom front tube, remove the upper front down tube, weld in new cross bars above and you've got a killer bike.
SB

 

[motorhedfred]

Thanks,
I think I called the crank assembly bottom bracket. I think I meant to ask what goes in there that will allow me to let the pedal remain stationary while the engine drives through it to the chain on the right side. 3 piece perhaps ? I prefer no jackshaft or spoke mounted sprockets. I had also thought about having a hub with internal gears laced to a heavier duty rim. Something like this.....

Shimano Nexus 4 Speed Internal Hub (SG-4R40) 36 Hole | eBay

I'm wondering if they're strong enough for around 5 hp.

I found another candidate...looks like a roadmaster by the shape of the downtubes.

For Sale Pre-War 26" Girl's Bicycle

As for engine choice, that's still up in the air but I'm thinking 4-stroke and small like a GXH50 Honda or a clone of same.

Thanks,
MHF

 

[motorhedfred]

I just brought the red "pre-war" bike. The owner turned out to be a walking encyclopdia on old bicycles. He had a bunch more in various states of restoration. That being said, he had no idea what brand it is. I did get him down a bit on the price.

Maybe someone here will recognize something from the pics that will give me a clue as to the name brand. If not, no biggy. I'm thinking J.C. Higgins or Roadmaster.

It has holes punched into the outer edges of the rear fender that he said are for lacing a cord through and down to a missing ring shaped piece on the dropouts. This is supposed to keep a ladie's skirt from tangling in the spokes. The fenders are peaked as well.

My wife said she wants it. If she doesn't change her mind, I might just go buy a new Genesis Onyx 29 from WalMart. I stopped and looked at one on the way home....I like it.

MHF

 

[silverbear]

If it is prewar then it wouldn't be J.C.Higgens; it would still be called an Elgin. I had a 1938 ladies Elgin which was similar in frame design and fenders. The rear fender also had the holes for lacing up cord for a skirt or coat guard, but the chain guard was much different and the seat was an old Troxel. I can't tell in the photo if the fender has a rear drop stand catch on it. The Elgin did. I think Cleveland Welding made the frame for Elgin and it could be they made the same frame with different this and that for someone else, too. Seat post on the Elgin was the 7 shaped solid stock. It could be someone has changed the seat. The Elgin dropouts were horizontal and had adjusters. I see that the pedals are newer on your bike since they have reflectors, but the pedal sprocket is skip tooth which would suggest prewar. In short, I don't know what it is, but don't think it is Elgin.The dropouts make me think it might be post war, like late 40's when horizontal dropouts were losing favor. Not all companies changed to the newer pedal chain right away. Some Schwinn models still had skip tooth sprockets into the early fifties. My 50 Panther did. I thought it was prewar until I checked the serial number. Bairdco might know what it is.It looks to be in good condition.
SB

 

[motorhedfred]

The guy did mention he thought the seat, pedals, chain guard and handle bars had been changed. He also said he thought it should have a drop stand. There are two holes close together and one slightly larger above them...I assume for a reflector. The fenders are slightly dented and a bit tweaked.

The oddest thing happened when we took the front end apart to get it in my trunk. There was a machine screw joining fender to the fork that went up into the head tube. When we looked up into the head tube, there was nothing there to catch the threads. We disassembled it on his concrete driveway and found no pieces-parts there, I looked all through my trunk when I got it home....nothing !

MHF

 

[silverbear]

The goose neck on the 38 was very cool, so it was likely robbed from the bike along with the correct fork... that would account for the fender bolt having nothing to thread in to. The chain guard on that model was also very cool and much sought after, so it could be that all of the things which would bring money on ebay or a swap meet got snitched and replaced with newer stuff.
I still have that 38 Elgin frame, but it went through a truck fire a couple years ago so I only have the frame here. The frame design looks the same with the exception of the dropouts. Mine are horizontal. If it is Elgin it must have been a little later when the dropout was changed. Maybe 41 or 42... could be in the late forties they were still using this and that old stock so there could be a kind of mish mash of parts, some from before the war and some new.
SB

 

[motorhedfred]

Thanks Silverbear.

I really don't think it's such a rare or valuable piece. One rider or another, I'm going to update it and make a learning experience of it. Any suggestions for a multi-speed hub for the rear and suspension fork for the front ?

MHF

 

[motorhedfred]

After studying several pictures of Elgin ladies bikes, I noticed a trend. They all seem to have a large radius fillet weld where the frame tubes join. This may have been for appearance or strength...not sure. Mine doesn't have that. In fact, there's no weld showing at all where the down tubes meet the head and seat tubes.

I was talking with another guy at work and he didn't know, but I threw out an inquiry about springer forks and multi-speed hubs. He said he'd have to dig around the rafters and see what he could find.

Then he told me about a 1957 ladies Monark Super DeLuxe. He said it's complete and ready to ride, all the parts are correct including the rear rack, springer, fenders, seat and headlight....just needs paint to look really good.

He offered it to me for $100 ! I don't know how I could pass that up....my only concern is how he would react to me parting out what I don't want and hacking it up to stretch, reinforce and motorize it. I almost don't like the idea myself. Maybe I should paint it, offer it to the wife and juice up the red one.

I'll have to talk to him.

MHF

 

[motorhedfred]

Well I sold the red bike already, which opens the door for another one. I decided to start with something a little newer and beefier.

My neighbor's son called me and asked me about it. I had it priced at $100 but he didn't want to spend that much. Now he's a tall guy like me and I doubt his wife or daughter would want to ride an old "PeeWee Herman" bike as my wife calls it, so I started quizzing him about it. As it turns out, he wants to build a motorized bike !

I let him have it for $50 and I think we're gonna be motored bicycle buddies. He has an old Tecumseh under his workbench and a set of plans from an old Popular Mechanics or Mechanix Illustrated magazine. He's gonna make a copy of the plans for me, and of course I told him about this forum and a few others.

Now the hunt is on for me again. I could buy the '57 Monark Super Deluxe from my friend at work, but from what he's told me it might be a shame to cut it up. I could always sell it and probably get more than I paid, but that might be just as bad for the friendship. I could be reading him all wrong as he just finished resto-modding a BSA 441 into a cafe racer, and that's worth far more in original condition than a 54 year old ladies bicycle.

What to do......

MHF

 

[motorhedfred]

I scored a ladies Sears Free Spirit 26" beach cruiser for $15 ! It's single speed, solid and straight with good tread on wide whites.

Ok, go ahead and tease me about the pink forks and pink speckles in the paint. I think it looks FABULOUS !!.

No, I'm not leaving it those colors, even though it would be a lot less likely to get stolen.

Does anyone know a source for pre-bent steel tubing, or maybe a place that will custom bend it to your specs ? I want to stretch it about 6" between the seat post and head tube with a straight tube bent down about 30-35 degrees just ahead of the seat post, a drop loop bottom tube and push the rear wheel back a few inches with different drop-outs.

I'd also like to squeeze the fattest 26" ballooner I can on the back and either a wide 700c or 29er front tire. I'm not sure what kind of suspension fork would accept a tire that tall with a 6" X 1 1/8" head tube. Any and all suggestions are welcome.

MHF

P.S. Sorry about the fuzzy pic...I must have been shaking with excitement when I snapped it.

 

[motorhedfred]

I decided to have a little cheap fun today. A trip to Lowes was needed so before I left, I measured the seat posts and steerer tubes on the 2 girl's bikes I recently bought.

I picked up five dollars worth of 1/2" cast iron pipe nipples and elbows to make an experimental lay-back seat post. It fits well and feels solid. I also flipped the handlebar over. The bike went from difficult to ride and uncomfortable to easy to peddle, fun and semi-comfortable. Not bad for a fin and 20 minutes work. I rode it around for 15-20 minutes and now the saddle is the problem.

Earlier today, I scored a pivot style springer for cheap (must be 'cause it's pink) from ebay. I'm going to use it as is for a while, but I intend to convert it to a girder using some Jeep lift shackles, an extra steerer tube and a shock from the rear of an old WalMart "mountain" bike.

This bike is gonna get a sex change next year with a drop loop, bent top tube and horzontal tube below that. I'm planning on using the GCV160 Honda I picked up recently, mounted with the shaft horizontal.