49cc and 30mph seems to be the law in Texas

[biknut]

This is good news
In law , there has to be definitions in a code that are clear and applicable and current.
You'll win in court, by showing a lack of clear definition in the transportation code.
But let's not get carried away with a good thing. Stay on the cool side and use 40cc engines or less. We need to make friends and make Texas a motor-assisted bicycle friendly state. After all our highways and byways go on forever.............................................

If you get in any trouble let me know and I'll send you some other information I have.

 

[SANGESF]

I have to (respectfully) disagree..
Self propelled would mean (in my mind) NOT needing ANY interaction. (e.g. No throttle).

 

[biknut]

I have to (respectfully) disagree..
Self propelled would mean (in my mind) NOT needing ANY interaction. (e.g. No throttle).

Self propelled means,

can drive away from a stop under it's own power. As opposed to requiring propulsion from an outside source such as pushing, or pedaling.

If you have to get out of your car and push it up to 6 mph before the engine can drive the car, would you consider that car self propelled? I wouldn't.

 

[SANGESF]

Where did you find a definition for self propelled?
Or did you just decide what self propelled meant?
Just because it has a clutch start, that means it's not self propelled?
You could take two of the exact same bicycles with the same exact motor, one with a clutch start and one with a pull start (like a lawn mower) and one would be self propelled and one wouldn't?
Better yet, take a bicycle with a 25cc motor with a pull start and that's self propelled, but you take a bicycle with a 250cc engine with a clutch start and it's not self propelled? and thus not a motorcycle or moped, just because of the clutch?
I seem to remember that every moped needed to be pedaled to start...
Does that mean a moped isn't a moped any more?
I'm totally confused.

 

[biknut]

Where did you find a definition for self propelled?
Or did you just decide what self propelled meant?
Just because it has a clutch start, that means it's not self propelled?
You could take two of the exact same bicycles with the same exact motor, one with a clutch start and one with a pull start (like a lawn mower) and one would be self propelled and one wouldn't?
Better yet, take a bicycle with a 25cc motor with a pull start and that's self propelled, but you take a bicycle with a 250cc engine with a clutch start and it's not self propelled? and thus not a motorcycle or moped, just because of the clutch?
I'm totally confused.

The clutch matters not. It's just either you can, or you can't drive away from a stop under it's own power.

My MB doesn't have enough power to do that. I have to peddle it some, that's why it called motor assisted. Without the assist it's not moving, or if it does, not for long because the clutch would be toast after one or two trys..

 

[SANGESF]

Again I ask, where did you get your definition of "self propelled"?
You can't say, "logic dictates", because when dealing with the law, logic goes out the window.

Does a car stop being a car, if you have to push it and then pop the clutch, because your battery is dead?

According to your definition of self propelled the bicycle with the pull start motor would be self propelled and the clutch one would not, but they are the exact same vehicle.

 

[biknut]

Again I ask, where did you get your definition of "self propelled"?
You can't say, "logic dictates", because when dealing with the law, logic goes out the window.

Does a car stop being a car, if you have to push it and then pop the clutch, because your battery is dead?

You're confusing starting the motor with driving away from a stop (sign).

In your example once the car motor is started, (we don't really care how), the car is then self propelled, because it can drive away from a stop.

Good conversation though. Might help me someday in court.

 

[biknut]

How about this. If I started my MB and then took the peddles off, I'd like to see how you would get it moving.

 

[SANGESF]

Same thing holds true..
You start the motor on the bike, by moving with pedal, and once it is started, you can move from a stop (sign) just like pulling the pull start on my above example..
The point is, no matter HOW you start the engine, it still "self propelled" once it's started.
Still haven't answered my main question..
Where did you get the definition of "self propelled"?

 

[SANGESF]

How about this. If I started my MB and then took the peddles off my MB, I'd like to see how you would get it moving.

Try it....
Run with the bike with the clutch engaged, it WILL start. (just because you ruin the clutch doesn't change what the vehicle is.)
But again, that's not the point..
If your bike's engine has a pull start, you CAN drive away from a dead stop.
In your definition, the bike would have to be started everytime you stopped at a stop sign by pedaling first. that's just not the way it works.

Look at it this way..
"motor assisted" means, assisted BY the motor.
Which means you have to pedal first before you can move.. If you stop pedalling the motor stops. Then to start again, you would need to start pedaling again.

 

[biknut]

Same thing holds true..
You start the motor on the bike, by moving with pedal, and once it is started, you can move from a stop (sign) just like pulling the pull start on my above example..
The point is, no matter HOW you start the engine, it still "self propelled" once it's started. Still haven't answered my main question..

Where did you get the definition of "self propelled"?

What makes you say it's self propelled one the engine is started. After you start the engine all you're doing is sitting there not moving. How you going to start moving without peddleing?

 

[biknut]

As far as the legal defination self propelled, I don't think Texas has one, but I think we're safe to assume if it can't go using the motor, it ain't self propelled.

 

[SANGESF]

What's the difference anyways? Moped or not? A small registration fee?
Need of a drivers license? Insurance?

Decide it's a moped, register it, go to insurance company insure it as a moped and drive around..
If you can't do any or all of those. Get an electric bike and be done with it.
Right?

 

[biknut]

What's the difference anyways? Moped or not? A small registration fee?
Need of a drivers license? Insurance?

Decide it's a moped, register it, go to insurance company insure it as a moped and drive around..
If you can't do any or all of those. Get an electric bike and be done with it.
Right?

Electric, yuck. They suck

I wish we could just register as a moped or anything, but you can't register a bicycle in Texas because there's no vin.

Actually there's so far no problem. I've been riding my bike all over the place even going out of my way to find police cars, and I can't even get them to put me out if I was on fire. The week before last I rode through 5 citys on a ride and nobody looked at me twice. I even rode through a radar trap in Addison and the cop waved at me.

 

[SANGESF]

Electric bikes suck? LOL
Bet you a million bucks, my electric bike is better than your gas one.

Headlight (55w xenon), rear light, brake light, directionals (front+rear), cigarette lighter/power socket, am/fm radio, satellite radio, CRUISE CONTROL, regen braking, 2 speakers, 10" sub, 300w amp, capable of 30mph, faster acceleration than your gas bike, 117 mile distance capable on single "fill up".

Yeah, I guess your right electric bike, yuk. (sarcasm)

 

[biknut]

Electric bikes suck? LOL
Bet you a million bucks, my electric bike is better than your gas one.

Headlight (55w xenon), rear light, brake light, directionals (front+rear), cigarette lighter/power socket, am/fm radio, satellite radio, CRUISE CONTROL, regen braking, 2 speakers, 10" sub, 300w amp, capable of 30mph, faster acceleration than your gas bike, 117 mile distance capable on single "fill up".

Yeah, I guess your right electric bike, yuk. (sarcasm)

As long as you like it that's all that matters.

 

[SANGESF]

You're last point was electric bike yuck...
I think you meant, "I don't have the money to afford an electric bike, because a gas bike is only an additional $200, while an electric bike can be $1000+"

Electric is quieter (much), "greener" and more powerful than a gas one.

The ONLY drawback is a 3 hr "refuel", instead of a 5 min one, HOWEVER, after driving 100+ miles, you desperately NEED. A long break!

So why do you say, "electric, yuck!"?
You can't really be enjoying the noise, pollution and relatively low torque of a gas bike compared to an electric one....

So what's the deal?

 

[biknut]

You're last point was electric bike yuck...
I think you meant, "I don't have the money to afford an electric bike, because a gas bike is only an additional $200, while an electric bike can be $1000+"

Electric is quieter (much), "greener" and more powerful than a gas one.

The ONLY drawback is a 3 hr "refuel", instead of a 5 min one, HOWEVER, after driving 100+ miles, you desperately NEED. A long break!

So why do you say, "electric, yuck!"?
You can't really be enjoying the noise, pollution and relatively low torque of a gas bike compared to an electric one....

So what's the deal?

I dono, I never been into electric. All my bikes have always been gas powered.

These's a bicycle shop near my house that's into them. Have you heard of Bicycle Exchange in Carrollton?

 

[SANGESF]

I dono, I never been into electric. All my bikes have always been gas powered.

These's a bicycle shop near my house that's into them. Have you heard of Bicycle Exchange in Carrollton?

Nope... I'm on the opposite side of the gulf from you, in Florida.
Although I spent a year living in Richardson/Plano (just NE of Dallas/Fort Worth.)

 

[biknut]

Nope... I'm on the opposite side of the gulf from you, in Florida.
Although I spent a year living in Richardson/Plano (just NE of Dallas/Fort Worth.)

Oh I thought you were in Fort Worth. There's a area called Lake Worth there.