49cc 4-Stroke 30 Series Torque Converter Build

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Chobiker

New Member
Apr 12, 2023
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Thought I would share my first build as I have seen some conflicting info about using a 30 series torque converter with a small engine like with this 49cc 4-stroke. I did not document this very well, as this was done over 2 months. The bike has run perfect and has about 300 miles on it. You can start off from a dead stop and drive at very slow speed or cruise at 30-35mph depending on your weight. The belt has minimal wear and I expect it to last a long time. This 49cc engine works extremally well with this 30 series torque converter. This build required a bunch of custom modifications that I have probably not mentioned below.

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I used a 49cc 4-stroke kit you can get off of ebay / amazon.
This kit came with the standard friction clutch / transition that requires you to pedal you bike and get it moving before engaging he engine.

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I wanted to be able to just start off from a dead stop and not burn clutches so I also purchased a 30 series torque converter from amazon / ebay for $60.

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The problem is that the 30 series torque converter fits on a 3/4 inch shaft and the 49cc engine has a 15mm shaft (not even 5/8), and the mount bolt pattern on the torque convertor did not match the engine bolt pattern. I designed and 3d printed a template to drill new mount holes in the torque convertor so it could be attached to the engine.

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I used the above pattern to drill new holes in the torque convertor mount plate to match the engine mount holes. I placed the 3/4 to 5/8 shaft adapter onto the engine, but because the engine shaft was 15mm this was slightly to big. I used an aluminum can and cut it into sheets that I wrapped around the shaft and placed the shaft adapter over top of these wrapped aluminum sheets. This created a tight snug fitting for the shaft adapter. A knife was used to cut away the aluminum can for the key slot. Once the torque converter was slide overtop of the shaft adapter this provided a secure tight fit. The shaft adapter had to be cut shorter to mount the drive pulley for the torque convertor.

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Once the torque convertor was mounted to the engine, I had to move the sprocket for the chain on the driven pully to the inside of the mounting plate. This was so the drive sprocket would line up properly with the sprocket on the rear wheel of the bike. This required a new 5/8 jacket shaft cut to length and the bearings in the torque convertor had to be replaced to match the shaft. A washer was welded to the end of the jacket shaft instead of using a snap ring like on the original jack shaft.

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A custom chain tensioner with a spring was made from 1/8" this metal. I have heard that people use high quality chains without a tensioner. But this was easy to make and allowed some slop in the chain as well as engine placement. It swiveled and was attached to the torque convertor so the pivot point was in a similar location as the drive sprocket.

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My cheap bike kit shipped without the twist throttle mount. So I just designed and 3d printed the throttle mount, along with a pushbutton stop for the left hand and an ignition mount for a key. This was all wired into the kill switch. A key is needed to start it, but of course it would be easy to by pass by just cutting the wire.

Printed Parts.jpg


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let me know if you have any questions.
 
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Chobiker

New Member
Apr 12, 2023
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The drive sprocket was a 10 tooth and the rear driven sprocket on the wheel is a 44 tooth.

Its my understanding that typical 30 series china torque converters are approximately 2.7-3:1 on the low rpm range and about 1:1 in the high rpm range.
 

Tony01

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Nov 28, 2012
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Hello and welcome to the forum. Are you sure you’re actually going 30-35mph? Those engine kits typically top out at about 28mph.

I tried using the same TC with a 150cc and could not exceed 32mph no matter what I did. They suck way too much power. Have you taken off the cover and watched it to make sure you’re really going into a higher gear?

The 30 series with asymmetrical belt with 6” driven starts with 2.7 and ends with a .9 overdrive if you have the power to push that.

Also for your crankshaft, if you could find a 15x19mm bushing it would be better. 19mm is just .002” under 3/4”.
 

Chobiker

New Member
Apr 12, 2023
10
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Hello and welcome to the forum. Are you sure you’re actually going 30-35mph? Those engine kits typically top out at about 28mph.

I tried using the same TC with a 150cc and could not exceed 32mph no matter what I did. They suck way too much power. Have you taken off the cover and watched it to make sure you’re really going into a higher gear?

The 30 series with asymmetrical belt with 6” driven starts with 2.7 and ends with a .9 overdrive if you have the power to push that.

Also for your crankshaft, if you could find a 15x19mm bushing it would be better. 19mm is just .002” under 3/4”.
I have used a GPS speedometer on my phone and I have clocked myself at 29mph, and I am 250lbs. Others that have ridden this that are 100-150lbs hit about 35mph. The theoretical speed of the bike would be 3800rpms / effective gear ratio (4.4 just saying the torque converter is 1:1 at higher RPM's)(on a 26" wheel) = 67mph. Obviously this can't get anywhere near that. But it really has no problem getting to 30mph +/-

I didn't know there was a 15x19mm bushing. I am currently building another bike with a predator 79cc with the same torque convertor, I will be sure to find that bushing!
 

Tony01

Well-Known Member
Nov 28, 2012
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I have used a GPS speedometer on my phone and I have clocked myself at 29mph, and I am 250lbs. Others that have ridden this that are 100-150lbs hit about 35mph. The theoretical speed of the bike would be 3800rpms / effective gear ratio (4.4 just saying the torque converter is 1:1 at higher RPM's)(on a 26" wheel) = 67mph. Obviously this can't get anywhere near that. But it really has no problem getting to 30mph +/-

I didn't know there was a 15x19mm bushing. I am currently building another bike with a predator 79cc with the same torque convertor, I will be sure to find that bushing!
Right. About the 15x19 bushing, I don’t know if it exists. It would be the size you’d search for and have the best luck finding. I think the 79cc comes with a 5/8” crank which is just .005” under 16mm. You could definitely find a 3/4 to 5/8 reducer. Member Tom from Rubicon would know IIRC.
 

zean

Active Member
Dec 5, 2010
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The 2.7:1 or 3:1 primary ratio of the torque converter plus the 4.4:1 secondary ratio going to the rear wheel is @13:1 total reduction ratio. I believe 13:1 reduction ratio is too high for the 49cc 4 stroke to start from a stand still without assist. I think the 49cc Huasheng 4 stroke needs a lower reduction ratio of 17:1 or 18:1 to start from a stand still without pedaling.
 

zean

Active Member
Dec 5, 2010
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california
My experience with the Huasheng 49cc 4 stroke was that the engine needed pedal assist when starting from a stand still, or a dead stop if you prefer, while using a 15:1 total reduction ratio. It needed assist because the clutch would wear out or the belt would glaze the pulley. I used a go kart clutch, not a motorized bicycle clutch because the go kart clutch locks up much better. I didn’t have to pedal very hard, but the engine needed assist with a 15:1 ratio. I ran with a 18:1 or 19:1 reduction ratio so that the clutch would lock up good and the engine did not require any assist while starting from a stand still. Am I missing something here? I’m just saying that I don’t understand how the 49cc 4 stroke can take off from a stand still without assist with a 13:1 reduction ratio. I just would’ve thought that your 49cc 4 stroke would need a 60 tooth or a 65 tooth rear sprocket with your torque converter to go from a stand still without pedal assist.
 
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curtisfox

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Dec 29, 2008
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I am so glad to hear this as I know these small engines can do it. I did years ago with 5/8hp Briggs, only Briggs rpm is only 1800 rpm’s so not as fast. I like what you did to fit the CT to the engine……..Best of luck with it………….Curt
 

Tom from Rubicon

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Apr 4, 2016
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"You could definitely find a 3/4 to 5/8 reducer. Member Tom from Rubicon would know."
Chobiker.
I have a machine shop and could easily make a sleeve to mate your trans to engine shaft.
Seems there is such sleeve ready made. If Fasteddy or Curt chime in. It has been something of a challenge who bought 3D Motorsport manual clutches.
MANUAL CLUTCHES – 3D Motorsport Engineering

Tom
 

Chobiker

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Apr 12, 2023
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This was one of the reason why I decided to post this. I have seen so many people complain about the traditional friction plate clutches that burn out sometimes in 20 minutes. I never came across a build with a 49cc engine with a torque converter. I never decided to pick any sprockets based upon gear ratios, and just used what was in the kit. It of course does not take off like a rocket when I'm on it, but it still can take off from a standstill. And I built it for someone who is 130 lb so it works very well for them. There's some minor belt wear, no burning or glazing, it's functioning completely fine.

When building this I did not want to have a bike that required pedaling to start off. This was why I chose the 30 series torque converter. I have worked on both snowmobiles, four wheelers and golf carts that use a similar belt torque converter.

I will try to remember record some video and post it starting off from a standstill.
 

Sidewinder Jerry

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Dec 19, 2011
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The drive sprocket was a 10 tooth and the rear driven sprocket on the wheel is a 44 tooth.

Its my understanding that typical 30 series china torque converters are approximately 2.7-3:1 on the low rpm range and about 1:1 in the high rpm range.
So you're saying a total reduction of { [11.88 to 13.32]\1low end} to {4.4\1 high end} using a 1.6 hp engine that produces 1.2 ft/lbs of torque. That isn't enough reduction to make it work on level ground let alone take off from a dead stop with no pedal assist.

I have the widest total reduction range known in motorized bicycle building history 66.79\1 to 16.25\1. It's because I have a triple chainring shift kit and use a 7-speed 34-13 freewheel. Unless you're a very small person 120 lbs or less you're going to need a much greater total reduction to even move on level ground let alone take off with no pedal assist.
 
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curtisfox

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Dec 29, 2008
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Tom my 3D clutches are still in the box’s, but won’t be to much longer though. I also have some of the 3/4 to 5/8 bushings, used one so far on jackshaft reducer, old school built, rear belt drive……..seems one man with patients can do and the next can’t without them. LOL ………Curt
 

Mossy

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May 20, 2022
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You can change your springs to engage slower or faster to get to the sweet spot... The 30 series is for 6+ hp ... I'm putting together a 7 hp 79cc predator with AGK parts... I'm going to go with a 7" driven and a stiff spring to help the 79cc overcome the weight... A juggernaut driver for the high rpm of the engine useing an adapter for and electric engine 5/8-3/4 because there better metal and finish... The china 30 for the plate that fits the engine without modifications... Changing the springs and weights to suit... If it works on a 49cc I'm going to be golden with the setup I'm going to run... Whenever that is...
 

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Tom from Rubicon

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Apr 4, 2016
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Warmer weather is coming Curt. My 3D will always be on the back burner. Bought it, assuming I would live for ever.
Chobiker, stay in this loop. You got the best of the best to talk to now.

Tom
 
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Chobiker

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Here is a link to a youtube video i did riding. I used one hand to steer and the other hand to record with my phone using a dashcam software on the phone to record the speed. This was not a high speed run as it was in my neighborhood and there were curves and cars. It's not a speed daemon, but it works very well for the 130lb +/- son that uses this all the time. He drives it everywhere, even through the thick Florida st. augustine grass. He does not pedal to start ever.

It's not the greatest video but it shows that I don't pedal. Reminder I am 250lbs and this is a 49cc 4-stroke and there is not hills, the road is flat.