A real plausable effort to modify State motorized bicycle Laws

GoldenMotor.com

KCvale

Well-Known Member
Feb 28, 2010
3,966
57
48
Phoenix,AZ
The March on Wall St. and the '99%' of us sick of getting screwed with corporate greed, regs and taxes may be a good time for all of us that build and ride MB's make our voices known in a untied country wide way.

My motivation is 50% make some changes that benefit me of course, but the other 50% is to try to get a safe operating standards we can all live with and should be doing anyway, but state by state.

Why State by State?
Because Congress is about as useful as a kick stand on a 747 airliner or a screen door on a sub, and it is up to the states anyway.

This is the FEDERAL regulations on our rides:

Federal law[/size=4]

"In the United States, federal law governing ICE (internal combustion engine) motorized bicycles is subject to interpretative rulings by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) at the U.S. Department of Transportation.

Under current NHTSA rules, a "motor-driven cycle" (a definition that includes a two-wheel vehicle such as a bicycle with an add-on ICE engine of five brake horsepower or less) and a speed capability of more than 20 miles per hour, lacks both a Vehicle Identification Number (VIN) and standard onroad safety equipment such as mirrors, turn signal lamps, side marker lamps, and stop lamps, then the vehicle shall not be considered a "motor vehicle" as defined by DOT/NHTSA regulations, but instead is defined as an off-road vehicle (since the lack of a VIN and on-road equipment indicates that a vehicle was not manufactured primarily for use on public roads.)

Such off-road vehicles are considered to be neither motor vehicles nor motorcycles, as those terms are defined under federal law.

Under present-day NHTSA rules, the final decision as to whether such federally-defined off-road vehicles may be legally operated on public roads is determined by the laws of the state[/size=4] in which the vehicle is being operated."
--------

Please take note of the 3 main points...
Under 5HP, capable of over 20MPH, no VIN and we are an off-road vehicle that States CAN allow on the road without Fed Motor Vehicle regulation.

That said it comes down to coming up a standard we, all the riders in country, feel is fair and safe standard and then:
1. Getting one state to adopt it.
2. As many people in every other state working to adopt their states standard to match.

I know a little about getting state reps to pay attention and actually act and propose changes, Spookytooth did it a few years back here in AZ just to get us legal at 48cc and 20MPH.

My amendment to AZ RS http://kcsbikes.com/KCstatuteChange.htm is simple.

Up the cc's to 66 so we have more motor choices, speed to 30MPH but with these safety regulations for over 48cc or 20MPH operation.

----
1. A motorized bicycle as described here operated over Twenty miles per hour must have both a front wheel brake and rear wheel brake.
2. A motorized bicycle as described here operated over Twenty miles per hour must have a flashing front white light visible to motorists from a distance of Fifty Feet during any operation not on private land.
3. A motorized bicycle as described here operated over the lesser of the posted speed limit or thirty miles per hour is subject to a $50 fine.
----

Can you live with that?
I can, but sound off and lets get a collective agreement and your states rules in one place.

It's all how you look at things ©¿©¬
Things can change, it just takes effort.

In AZ the next state congress starts at the first of the year but they are already submitting bills before holiday break for next session even though many may be gone.

To back up why this is needed is going to need to be based on hard facts but a bunch of signatures sure don't hurt.
I'll take the time, do the research, and launch the first volley with my district reps. I just want to know if ANY of YOU will actually take the time to learn how your state government works and how to spread it to your state.


I am not asking you to camp out on the street and protest for months, I am simply asking you PERSONALLY give a **** and spend a couple of hours on your states web site, find out who your reps are, your current rules, and then CONTACT YOUR REPS!

You can read my latest proposed revision of the AZ Statute here.
UPDATE 11/20/1011
NEW URL http://kcsbikes.com/AZRS28-2516.htm


Worst case scenario?
You spend a few hours on-line, learn something about your State government and who is supposed to be speaking for you, and don't get any change.
 
Last edited:

KCvale

Well-Known Member
Feb 28, 2010
3,966
57
48
Phoenix,AZ
Not just motor size, speed limit from 20 to 30MPH too.
I won't even let a 48cc out of my shop with just a coaster brake, it's stupid to ride without 2 brakes anyway, but my change is for those that ride in the new area from 20 to 30MPH.
2 brakes and cheap blinking light in front I feel are imperative to safety.
Why? Because I have slammed into a van at 35 at midday when he pulled out in front of me because even though he said he seen me, I didn't really get his attention.
You WILL get attention with a blinking white front light, I know, I never ride without one now and since seen 2 drivers start to pull out, take a double take, and stop.

Besides, adding in a little painless safety will make it much easier to get through, they aren't letting us go faster, they are making us safer ;-}
 

SANGESF

New Member
Feb 23, 2009
641
0
0
Lake Worth
You're prolly not gonna get them to up the cc's past 48cc or speeds greater than 20, UNLESS, you then put in a provision for registration and licensing requirements...

THOSE are the things legislators want, because THAT generates REVENUE for the state.
 

Fulltimer

New Member
Aug 13, 2010
1,321
3
0
77
Saint Augustine, FL
Myself and others are working on ideas for a national organization. What you ar5e proposing is something that a national org. could help with. But that would be something in the future.

As for speed limits. If the speed limit is 35MPH most people will drive 40MPH. I recently did a little test on US-1 here in Saint Augustine. It is a divided 4 lane highway with a 45MPH speed limit. I drove a few miles down and back. I had my cruise control set at 45. The GPS and speedometer both said 45. I had 37 cars pass me! I passed ZERO.

Terry
 

KCvale

Well-Known Member
Feb 28, 2010
3,966
57
48
Phoenix,AZ
Here in AZ, all residential speeds are 25MPH, not 35.
You're prolly not gonna get them to up the cc's past 48cc or speeds greater than 20, UNLESS, you then put in a provision for registration and licensing requirements...

THOSE are the things legislators want, because THAT generates REVENUE for the state.
People working generates revenue for the state and this costs the state nothing to generate it because there is no administrative cost and exiting law forbids it.
That's how I am going to pitch it anyway.

Besides, I just want to make as minor a change to existing law as possible.

Have you even read my colorful single page proposed changes?
It is kind of pointless to comment if you don't read this first.
Proposed Revisions to AZ RS 28-2516 i Motorized Bicycles
Very simple, with some safety cat nip.

I know how our dyslexic state government works, anything completely new takes forever, a simple change to existing law presented in an easy to read and understand way even a 10 year can grasp makes for an easy vote.

The only reason I am sharing this process here as I go is just in case there is someone here from another state that actually wants to put the frigg'n time and effort in to actually ACT, follow along and make a change in their state like I am doing in mine in unison as part of the 99% movement.

The arm chair 'I want' talkers are just background noise.
This country has gone to **** because everyone wants this or that but always expects someone else to do the work.

This is about actual GET THE FLOCK OFF YOUR A$$ AND ACT YOURSELF movement darn it.
Lead, follow, or shut the frack up and get the heck out of the way because if you won't put in ANY effort you have no frigg'n say anyway.

Did that came off kind of harsh like a wake-up slap in the face and offended some of you?
GOOD!
This whole country needs the apathy slapped out of it but I am not aiming that high, I am just going to put 100% into changing one simple thing that effects my daily life, that one simple motorized bicycle definition for my state.

One actual start to finish act I start that actually brings about a change to State Law that Benefits Me and Every Other MB'er in my State.
I feel energized just doing it, just think how I'll feel when I pull it off!

So, are you inspired enough to put some of your time killing entertainment aside and actually look into your states law and lead there?

Are you even wiling to speak up and act with someone else in your state that takes the lead to be a part of it?

How about those of you here that live in Arizona?
Are you behind me?
I'll do the hard work but let's do this together and share in the triumph!

Get Involved With Me!
Proposed Revisions to AZ RS 28-2516 i Motorized Bicycles
 

bairdco

a guy who makes cool bikes
Aug 18, 2009
6,537
264
63
living the dream in southern california
i have no problem with california state laws. they sound excessive, but are rarely enforced.

i guess i could go to irvine and sit on the lawn and see if it gets any better, though. but i don't like hippies. they smell like pot dipped in patchouli oil.

(sorry, but the whole "occupy this" movement is a joke to me. in Irvine, they protested their right to protest. the park they were at closed at 10:30 pm, so the cops would kick them out. they'd stand on the sidewalk till the park opened.

they protested that, and a councilman said "if they're protestesting to sleep on our lawn, let 'em sleep on our lawn."

the guy didn't even care, and the protesters thought they won a major victory.

meanwhile, people were dropping off food and blankets (this is irvine. when i say "people," i mean rich people) for those poor protesters, and this attracted the homeless.

so we've got the bums eating the food that was supposed to go to those poor under-privaleged college students who probably make more than i do.

seriously, though. fighting for yout right to camp in the park and having having food catered to you?

that's not a protest, that's a picnic.

whatever happened to hunger strikes, chaining yourself to stuff, wrapping your arms and legs in newspapers to deflect billy club attacks, carrying lemons to thwart the effects of tear gas...

even our protests are lackluster these days.

i wanna march back and forth in irvine with a bunch of cranky old men with signs that read "GET OFF MY LAWN!"

whadda we want? SOMETHING! when do we wannit? PRETTY SOON!

sorry, what were we talking about?...
 

SANGESF

New Member
Feb 23, 2009
641
0
0
Lake Worth
So basically, you only want to change size of engine to larger and operating speed of faster?

First off, no cop is gonna be able to tell if your engine is 48 or 66 or even 80cc.
Second, Are you sure you want to be able to go 30mph? I think a small baby step of 25mph is more appropriate...
20-25mph is the normal non-posted speed limit for just about every municipality in the country..
Putting it to 30 will make those idiots out there (and you know who I'm talking about), push that limit to riding 35mph or more.. (Just like the other poster stated)..duh.

If someons wants to go 30mph+ it would probably be safer to just buy a scooter. No?

P.S. 25mph is MORE than fast enough... My EBIKE (if I took off the limiter) does 25-30 mph speeds and I'll tell you, for every 1 mph faster than 25, it's just that much more dangerous and unstable of a ride.. And I have a very heavy steel framed bike... You know those guys will take a rickety old alum frame and throw a 66c or larger and be doing 40mph and that one day that that person hits a pothole doing 40 and falls, they'll outlaw the whole shebang!
 
Last edited:

happyvalley

New Member
Jul 24, 2008
784
1
0
upper Pioneer Valley
I applaud the effort and appreciate the discussion but hope you like herding cats. One look around and you'll see the definition of a MAB has become everything between 25cc and 250. I'd say start locally if you want change and not think too much about what other states are doing or opinions are floating around.

Where I live the regs are 50cc/2 HP, 25 mph top speed with 30 mph max attainable speed, min. age 16, DL required but no motorcycle endorsement, no insurance, inspection or registration outside a $20 moped decal. I can live with that. As a matter of fact, the regs were just reworked in 2009 in favor of MABs. We went from 2 classes, motorcycle and moped/MAB to three, motorcycle, scooter and moped/MB. I hope it stays that way.

The US Bike League estimates there are 60 million people who ride bicycles in the US. Verifiable numbers on ICE powered MABs are hard to come by but my guess would be in the low single digit percentage of that. IOW an small niche market. Bicyclist get a fair amount of attention with legislation and funding. Safety, trails and rail trail conversions, bike lanes and promotion but it's a sizable demographic with the public perception of being green. An honest question would be what do you see happening now or in the future for MABs?

I'm signed up for news alerts whenever the words <motorized bikes/bicycles> get a hit in cyberspace. Here's a sampling from just the last 3 days!

Missouri
Missouri Highway Patrol handles "unknown" motorized bike accident
http://www.connecttristates.com/news/story.aspx?id=686857
Center teen hurt when truck hits motorized bike
http://www.hannibal.net/newsnow/x745435441/Center-teen-hurt-when-truck-hits-motorized-bike

California
Penngrove woman on a motorized bicycle was hit by a truck
http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20111114/COMMUNITY/111119743/1042/opinion?Title=Penngrove-woman-injured-after-being-hit-by-truck-&tc=ar


Oregon
Beaverton police identify motorist, motorized bicyclist involved in crash
http://www.oregonlive.com/beaverton/index.ssf/2011/11/beaverton_police_identify_moto.html

Maine
Saco motored bike crash sends one to the hospital
http://www.pressherald.com/news/Saco-minibike-crash-sends-one-to-the-hospital-.html

Florida
Minor on motorized bike struck by vehicle
http://www.srpressgazette.com/articles/accident-14360-milton-emergency.html
 

KCvale

Well-Known Member
Feb 28, 2010
3,966
57
48
Phoenix,AZ
I applaud the effort and appreciate the discussion but hope you like herding cats.
heheh, thanks Happvalley ;-}

Of course I am starting with my own state, but I designed the system and it's database to be able to break down what state you are voting from.
It is really quite eloquent on the back end and I think my form is pretty straight forward.

That being the case if any of guys want to make your own mods to the form for your state I will be happy to host it on my server and use the same database to make it free and easy for you.

The Arizona Petition is Now LIVE!
Petition for Change to AZ RS 28-2516


Please show your support for our effort and sign it please.
Thanks.
 

KCvale

Well-Known Member
Feb 28, 2010
3,966
57
48
Phoenix,AZ
Thanks Bill, as a fellow Zonie you know what it would mean to us.
Before the next AZ Leg session starts in January I will be loaded for bear to get it introduced.
 

KCvale

Well-Known Member
Feb 28, 2010
3,966
57
48
Phoenix,AZ
heheh, thanks Happvalley ;-}

Of course I am starting with my own state, but I designed the system and it's database to be able to break down what state you are voting from.
It is really quite eloquent on the back end and I think my form is pretty straight forward.

That being the case if any of guys want to make your own mods to the form for your state I will be happy to host it on my server and use the same database to make it free and easy for you.

The Arizona Petition is Now LIVE!
Petition for Change to AZ RS 28-2516


Please show your support for our effort and sign it please.
Thanks.
Come on guys, please, show some support!
It doesn't matter if you live in AZ, it is all based on zip code and that will be sorted out by state for your own use and even Federal law use if we can get it that far.

Thanks, and have a good Thanksgiving.
 

KCvale

Well-Known Member
Feb 28, 2010
3,966
57
48
Phoenix,AZ
** BUMP **

Please take a moment if you haven't yet to sign my petition to relax Arizona MB law, I am sending my proposal to my AZ State Senate and House reps in a week to see if they will get the change introduced.

Current AZ law says 48cc max motor size, and 19.9MPH max speed.
Would you be happy with no motor choice but a 48cc 2-stroke and school zone max speed?

I mean come on, even this 49cc 4-stroke is illegal.





It doesn't matter if you live in Arizona, I sort results by state too so please, sign your support.

Petition for Change to AZ RS 28-2516

Thanks and Merry Christmas!
 

richirich

New Member
Aug 16, 2011
297
0
0
Port Angeles, Washington
I live in Wa and i signed your petition. I hope it works out for you in AZ. Here it WA it is completly illegal no matter the size. Unless you can have your bike safty inspected by the state patrol and meet all the equipment requirments like a moped/motorcycle and then it can be registered and you MUST have a valid DL. Most areas the police are allowing them to ride (not my area, local police will absolutly not allow it). Im not saying its impossible to turn a bike into a moped/motorcycle to ride legal but then you might as well buy a moped or motorclycle.
So if it dosent work out for you, still consider yourself lucky for what you got in AZ
Anyway good luck to Ya.
 

KCvale

Well-Known Member
Feb 28, 2010
3,966
57
48
Phoenix,AZ
Here it WA it is completely illegal no matter the size.
So if it doesn't work out for you, still consider yourself lucky for what you got in AZ
Bummer for you Rich, but yes, I do consider myself lucky.
It didn't use to be that way here either.
Back in 2006 the owner of SpookyTooth in Tucson lobbied his local State Rep to introduce the bill and get it into law.

The groundwork was beautiful, no HP limits and pretty board in it's lack of complicated other possible restrictions.
It happened because someone wanted to be able to ride them legally and exercised his voice the way it matters, by talking to the people elected to be his voice and say what the people he represents want.

Thanks for your support and I'll let you know how my first attempt at law changing works out.
I got A's in government back in high school so I think I have a pretty good shot at this when I am ready to go armed with facts to my Reps to make my, make that our, desires known.
 

richirich

New Member
Aug 16, 2011
297
0
0
Port Angeles, Washington
Ya, it would be nice if SickBikeParts would do something like that for WA. It seems to me that good business have power with this sort of stuff. Right now its kinda a hit and miss if you live in an area that will look the other way. I meen com'on thre are only 4 mbs in my small town and all had been ridden by older resposible people, yet the cops will absolutly not allow it.
Maby if it works out for you in AZ you can start a nationwide movement for it to be legal in every state.???
Once again GOOD LUCK and keep us posted.
 

Velodrome

Well-Known Member
May 27, 2011
2,387
271
63
Phoenix-ish
Thanks for the PM KC. I re read it and am signed up. It woud be a great first start. We got the CCW and other freedoms relaxed in AZ I'm hoping this will be the starting point for MB freedom here also.