Mr.B.
Well-Known Member
In case you don't get one soon, i think you did some pretty impressive torch welding on your BTR! Old school!
Rätte-Hengel...
- Thread starter Mr.B.
- Start date
In case you don't get one soon, i think you did some pretty impressive torch welding on your BTR! Old school!
Tony01
Well-Known Member
Great build. Just read through the thread, dunno how I missed it. Just one suggestion; take those gas tank mounts completely off the motor. Gilbert has had those fail and crack the block, and mine is showing stress cracks from where they were before I figured out they were no good. My buddy and I use a heim link mount on the cylinder where the blower cover bolts, to the bike downtube.
Mr.B.
Well-Known Member
Wow, do you mean from just vibrating unattached?
I just made a bracket out of angle iron last night for those two tank tabs. But mostly for looks, i figured with that big thick plate i used and hard mounted without rubber the engine is rock solid to the frame...
Mr.B.
Well-Known Member
I unsuccessfully tried to search for what Gilbert had to say about this...
Do you recall the title of that tread? Thanks!
Edit- i did find it: "Frame Rebuild for 212 Engine"
With the 3/8" plate i used on the seat tube and the even thicker right angle gusset i think i'll be fine. However i do heed your warning and will use smaller bolts through pieces of rubber hose for a cush on those tabs. It is just for looks.
Thanks for pointing this out!!!
Do you recall the title of that tread? Thanks!
Edit- i did find it: "Frame Rebuild for 212 Engine"
With the 3/8" plate i used on the seat tube and the even thicker right angle gusset i think i'll be fine. However i do heed your warning and will use smaller bolts through pieces of rubber hose for a cush on those tabs. It is just for looks.
Thanks for pointing this out!!!
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Mr.B.
Well-Known Member
After some consideration i decided that I was approaching this from a convenience and styling point of view and also trying to hold on to fab time invested.
But folks with racing experience are going to know A LOT about the weaknesses and limitations of these engines. So i’ll give that kind of advice much weight. Thanks again!
Here’s plan B made from angle iron...
btw: And it turns out i also like the looks tab-less engine better!
But folks with racing experience are going to know A LOT about the weaknesses and limitations of these engines. So i’ll give that kind of advice much weight. Thanks again!
Here’s plan B made from angle iron...
btw: And it turns out i also like the looks tab-less engine better!
Gbrebes
Well-Known Member
Hey Mr. B,
As everything I have seen you build, this bike is absolutely wonderful. You have an artistic eye that really makes for a very convincing old fashioned motorcycle, even when not using old fashioned materials. I am glad that you are a member of this forum.
Regarding the gas tank mounts on the 212 engine. You would do best to shave both of those mounts off and forget they were ever there. This motor produces a lot of torque to the mounting points, and those tabs are meant to hold a small gas tank with one gallon of gas. I quickly developed a crack in the block that leaked oil using these tabs.
I would also highly recommend a mount at the top of the engine. I can get you pictures of mine, but I made a mount that bolts to the head via the two front headbolts. It then attaches to a beefy u mount on the frame.
Good luck with the build, that motor will tear up some parts in a heartbeat.
Gilbert
As everything I have seen you build, this bike is absolutely wonderful. You have an artistic eye that really makes for a very convincing old fashioned motorcycle, even when not using old fashioned materials. I am glad that you are a member of this forum.
Regarding the gas tank mounts on the 212 engine. You would do best to shave both of those mounts off and forget they were ever there. This motor produces a lot of torque to the mounting points, and those tabs are meant to hold a small gas tank with one gallon of gas. I quickly developed a crack in the block that leaked oil using these tabs.
I would also highly recommend a mount at the top of the engine. I can get you pictures of mine, but I made a mount that bolts to the head via the two front headbolts. It then attaches to a beefy u mount on the frame.
Good luck with the build, that motor will tear up some parts in a heartbeat.
Gilbert
Gbrebes
Well-Known Member
Don't mean to hijack your thread, but here is an example of the 212 engine breaking components. This is my old muffler bracket and a picture of the new one I had to make to replace it. The old one seemed fairly thick, like 14 gauge or so, as you can see, it broke. I made the new one using 1/8" strap, hopefully it will hold up.
I also included some pictures of my top motor mount. Previously I had an L bracket on the frame, that broke, so I made it a U bracket with two welded mounting spots. I also broke my first head mount bracket near the headbolts, so I came up with a three-fingered bracket.
I also included a picture of my rear tire after not so many miles. Your results may vary.
Gilbert
I also included some pictures of my top motor mount. Previously I had an L bracket on the frame, that broke, so I made it a U bracket with two welded mounting spots. I also broke my first head mount bracket near the headbolts, so I came up with a three-fingered bracket.
I also included a picture of my rear tire after not so many miles. Your results may vary.
Gilbert
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Mr.B.
Well-Known Member
Not a highjack! I really appreciate this type of feedback!
Mr.B.
Well-Known Member
Been really busy with my day job recently and haven’t had much spare time, But here is a couple of new things to share-
Another thick gusset, this will now finally reenforce all the tube clusters and it may even be used to attach the gas tank later ( ? )
And finally yesterday afternoon i was able to get back to it in ernest and worked on the seat.
I decided to use the seat i believe may be original to this frame, regardless i think the colors suit it. Also decided to use one of those rear trim rods from another seat, that stuff bends easy and a few extra cracks in the chrome is a good thing. Welded a big thick tab to the seat post to use as a pivot.
Replaced the original seat springs with a bracket made from a chunk of 3/16” bar stock and filed square holes to loosely trap a couple of long cartridge bolts.
Added some sleeves (cut from some original 1850’s gas light pipe salvaged from a ceiling restoration project in my old house).
The bottom springs are cut from another old seat under cartridge and bolted to the frame (although i think i’ll go back a weld them). And i added one helper (lifer) spring trapped between the original seat post and a 1/2” nut/bolt on the seat stay gusset. My buddy is part of a funny car crew and they replace the lifter springs after every race, and he has given a few sets of these. They fit 3 inside each other so i can stiffen this up later by adding more of the stack if needed...
Really looking forward to working on it again this weekend!
Another thick gusset, this will now finally reenforce all the tube clusters and it may even be used to attach the gas tank later ( ? )
And finally yesterday afternoon i was able to get back to it in ernest and worked on the seat.
I decided to use the seat i believe may be original to this frame, regardless i think the colors suit it. Also decided to use one of those rear trim rods from another seat, that stuff bends easy and a few extra cracks in the chrome is a good thing. Welded a big thick tab to the seat post to use as a pivot.
Replaced the original seat springs with a bracket made from a chunk of 3/16” bar stock and filed square holes to loosely trap a couple of long cartridge bolts.
Added some sleeves (cut from some original 1850’s gas light pipe salvaged from a ceiling restoration project in my old house).
The bottom springs are cut from another old seat under cartridge and bolted to the frame (although i think i’ll go back a weld them). And i added one helper (lifer) spring trapped between the original seat post and a 1/2” nut/bolt on the seat stay gusset. My buddy is part of a funny car crew and they replace the lifter springs after every race, and he has given a few sets of these. They fit 3 inside each other so i can stiffen this up later by adding more of the stack if needed...
Really looking forward to working on it again this weekend!
xseler
Well-Known Member
I concur!
I double that!...............Curt
Mr.B.
Well-Known Member
I haven’t updated for a while so here’s a couple weeks worth of the latest progress in a big steamy dump-
Rear wheel:
I used 5 different online spoke length calculators and NOT single one of them matched... But a average of the 5 results worked out pretty good. A simple jig for cutting and a thread roller borrowed from my friend and bicycle guru “Bicycle Bill” made quick work of it.
Knowing that with such a large hub the spokes would be at a steep angle I decided to dimple the nipple holes a little. Made a little jig by simply drilling a countersink in a scrap of plate and tapping a flathead screw through. Had to repaint the rim...
Using a motorcycle hub causes a few problems, just because it’s so much larger than a bicycle in every way. So truing such a wide wheel had to be done with an “alternative” truing stand (thank you Lugwig Drum company and an old fork)...
The issue of oversized motorcycle-sized spoke holes was solved by drilling smaller ones through the hub’s existing conveniently placed decorative dimples. A final old-school racing trick of wire & soiled spokes added some strength & stiffness.
Bottom bracket:
I’ve found that by freezing pillow block bearings and heating the original bicycle races they can be pressed together. I used 3/4” core bearings for a solid pedal crank rod to be finished later. The bearings have a groove with holes so they can be greased, I cut a slot in the races and added fittings to the top of the BB...
Rear wheel:
I used 5 different online spoke length calculators and NOT single one of them matched... But a average of the 5 results worked out pretty good. A simple jig for cutting and a thread roller borrowed from my friend and bicycle guru “Bicycle Bill” made quick work of it.
Knowing that with such a large hub the spokes would be at a steep angle I decided to dimple the nipple holes a little. Made a little jig by simply drilling a countersink in a scrap of plate and tapping a flathead screw through. Had to repaint the rim...
Using a motorcycle hub causes a few problems, just because it’s so much larger than a bicycle in every way. So truing such a wide wheel had to be done with an “alternative” truing stand (thank you Lugwig Drum company and an old fork)...
The issue of oversized motorcycle-sized spoke holes was solved by drilling smaller ones through the hub’s existing conveniently placed decorative dimples. A final old-school racing trick of wire & soiled spokes added some strength & stiffness.
Bottom bracket:
I’ve found that by freezing pillow block bearings and heating the original bicycle races they can be pressed together. I used 3/4” core bearings for a solid pedal crank rod to be finished later. The bearings have a groove with holes so they can be greased, I cut a slot in the races and added fittings to the top of the BB...
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Mr.B.
Well-Known Member
Headlight:
Chris had provided an interesting “Big Beam” housing that I just couldn’t resist. I decided to use the original light bulb as a lens and had to cut the thick glass (something I’ve never done before). Finally figured out that water and a Dremel diamond cutting disc would make this a fairly easy job, but I still managed to crack it in two during the last 1/2” of cutting.
Oh well, a little super glue and tape on the outside edges and I’ll just call it ratrod.
For a light source I’m using an off the shelf Schwinn light set, a simple little kit that has rubber housing that normally just straps to a handlebar and a side mounted on/off push switch.
There were a couple of existing tabs in the light housing that were bent up to carry a little chunk of 1” tube for the light. In my spare parts box I found an old nickel plated spring loaded push button that was just the right size after I made a flat in the light housing.
It sounds so easy, but all this actually took several hours to finally work it all out...
Taillight:
Same as the headlight, I made a little tube carrying mount by bending and cutting a chain link fence bracket (saved filing one square hole that way, HA!) I used a carriage bolt and some wooden plugs to keep the tube centered and then mounted to the luggage rack...
Chris had provided an interesting “Big Beam” housing that I just couldn’t resist. I decided to use the original light bulb as a lens and had to cut the thick glass (something I’ve never done before). Finally figured out that water and a Dremel diamond cutting disc would make this a fairly easy job, but I still managed to crack it in two during the last 1/2” of cutting.
Oh well, a little super glue and tape on the outside edges and I’ll just call it ratrod.
For a light source I’m using an off the shelf Schwinn light set, a simple little kit that has rubber housing that normally just straps to a handlebar and a side mounted on/off push switch.
There were a couple of existing tabs in the light housing that were bent up to carry a little chunk of 1” tube for the light. In my spare parts box I found an old nickel plated spring loaded push button that was just the right size after I made a flat in the light housing.
It sounds so easy, but all this actually took several hours to finally work it all out...
Taillight:
Same as the headlight, I made a little tube carrying mount by bending and cutting a chain link fence bracket (saved filing one square hole that way, HA!) I used a carriage bolt and some wooden plugs to keep the tube centered and then mounted to the luggage rack...
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Mr.B.
Well-Known Member
Luggage Rack:
The original end of the rack was already broken and much too short for the newly stretched frame anyway. So I reshaped it a little and attached it to a bracket cut out of a old barn door hinge, mounted to the seat stay gusset.
A little touch of welding and then some distressed red paint later will add a little contrast to that dark area under the seat...
Note that both the rack and fender stays have been lengthened and curved to match the frame on the left side, to clear that extra wide honda hub...
Jackshaft:
An simple affair, I just added a longer 5/8” axle and pillow block bearing on that heavy gusset to spread the load out a little.
Intake Manifold:
I like using these thick oversized washers found at a local Farm/Tractor supply store for the flange ends, it saves a bit of time boring large holes...
Used a little chunk of bent 1” tube and a simple wooden jig clamped to the cylinder to keep the carb-side end square and plumb, and a little tube topside for a hose to catch the case vent blow back- Ready to weld!
The original end of the rack was already broken and much too short for the newly stretched frame anyway. So I reshaped it a little and attached it to a bracket cut out of a old barn door hinge, mounted to the seat stay gusset.
A little touch of welding and then some distressed red paint later will add a little contrast to that dark area under the seat...
Note that both the rack and fender stays have been lengthened and curved to match the frame on the left side, to clear that extra wide honda hub...
Jackshaft:
An simple affair, I just added a longer 5/8” axle and pillow block bearing on that heavy gusset to spread the load out a little.
Intake Manifold:
I like using these thick oversized washers found at a local Farm/Tractor supply store for the flange ends, it saves a bit of time boring large holes...
Used a little chunk of bent 1” tube and a simple wooden jig clamped to the cylinder to keep the carb-side end square and plumb, and a little tube topside for a hose to catch the case vent blow back- Ready to weld!
Mr.B.
Well-Known Member
Exhaust:
For the tight bend at the engine I made a series of pie-shaped cuts to be welded and ground smooth.
I picked up this ancient 1” conduit bender at a flea market for $5, and it’s great for making larger curves even with something as thick as the black pipe I’m using here. Another handy tool (borrowed from Bicycle Bill) is this antique thread cutter.
A finishing touch and a nod towards the post apocalypse, I fashioned the tailpipe after a Browning M1919 machine gun barrel. Used some more black pipe, turned down straight fittings to trap it, an 1.5” automotive thin walled tailpipe, and high temp grill paint--all assembled from actual downloaded dimensional drawings for reference to make it somewhat convincing. I must say, drilling 96 evenly spaced holes is a task!
That’s it for now, but i do hope to work on it more during this week!
For the tight bend at the engine I made a series of pie-shaped cuts to be welded and ground smooth.
I picked up this ancient 1” conduit bender at a flea market for $5, and it’s great for making larger curves even with something as thick as the black pipe I’m using here. Another handy tool (borrowed from Bicycle Bill) is this antique thread cutter.
A finishing touch and a nod towards the post apocalypse, I fashioned the tailpipe after a Browning M1919 machine gun barrel. Used some more black pipe, turned down straight fittings to trap it, an 1.5” automotive thin walled tailpipe, and high temp grill paint--all assembled from actual downloaded dimensional drawings for reference to make it somewhat convincing. I must say, drilling 96 evenly spaced holes is a task!
That’s it for now, but i do hope to work on it more during this week!