THAT'S why I said it was "irrelevant" in the first place, because you already have formed the opinion that our bikes are NOT "motor vehicles"..other such vehicles that are specifically exempt from titling or registration requirements under title 49, Idaho Code.
Statute 49-123 definition of a motor vehicle.
(g) Motor vehicle. Every vehicle which is self-propelled, and for the purpose of titling and registration meets federal motor vehicle safety standards as defined in section 49-107, Idaho Code. Motor vehicle does not include vehicles moved solely by human power, electric personal assistive mobility devices and motorized wheelchairs or other such vehicles that are specifically exempt from titling or registration requirements under title 49, Idaho Code.
And now here's the point at which you point out certain things that you believe that exempt a moped from the definition of a motor vehicle...Statute 49-301 Who needs a Drivers License
Drivers to be licensed. (1) No person, except those expressly exempted by the provisions of this chapter, shall drive any motor vehicle upon a highway unless the person has a current and valid Idaho driver’s license. Provided however, that those persons holding a restricted school attendance driving permit may drive upon a highway pursuant to the restrictions set forth in section 49-307A, Idaho Code.
Thanks! I ordered the lights, horn, turn/break lights as well as mirrors so should be good there. I thought anything above 5HP and classified as a vehicle needed a drivers license, or did I completely read that wrong.Police stopped me in Emmett, ID today and stated that since it was under 50CC I need not have registration and titled but they stated I had better put lights, horn, turn signals on mine. Also stated that I am required to have a valid driver's license and liability insurance.
I'm going down to the police department tomorrow to ask for a printout of Idaho statutes that requires insurance for a moped that isn't legally required to be registered and titled.
It's all about the cc's. If you got the money and are crazy enough there are 15 HP 50 cc motors... perfectly legal but not practical.Thanks! I ordered the lights, horn, turn/break lights as well as mirrors so should be good there. I thought anything above 5HP and classified as a vehicle needed a drivers license, or did I completely read that wrong.
Idaho statutes specifically state anything above 50cc on a vehicle (which includes a bicycle) is classified as a motor vehicle and are subject to all the requirements of such. 5 HP is well above the threshold for the classification. In fact that on a bicycle would classify it as a motorcycle and you would need to have it titled, registered, and plated and you would also need a motorcycle endorsement on your driver's license and liability insurance. Anything 49cc or under is exempt from title and registration and under the statute definition of a motor vehicle it could not be classified as one.Thanks! I ordered the lights, horn, turn/break lights as well as mirrors so should be good there. I thought anything above 5HP and classified as a vehicle needed a drivers license, or did I completely read that wrong.
Thanks for the update, I'll check up on it further as well. Not that I don't believe it or anything, if anything else, I just have more to take care of.Idaho statutes specifically state anything above 49cc on a vehicle (which includes a bicycle) is classified as a motor vehicle and are subject to all the requirements of such. 5 HP is well above the threshold for the classification. In fact that on a bicycle would classify it as a motorcycle and you would need to have it titled, registered, and plated and you would also need a motorcycle endorsement on your driver's license and liability insurance. Anything 49cc or under is exempt from title and registration and under the statute definition of a motor vehicle it could not be classified as one.
I spoke with a Lt. at the local police dept. here in Emmett and I explained to him that I am unable to get any insurance carrier to underwrite a liability policy because my bike is not classified as a motor vehicle under the statute. He stated he needs to verify this with the prosecutor and he'll get back to me.
I told him that there have been a few members of the forum who live here in Idaho who have been cited for no DL and/or insurance and have had these citations dismissed due to the fact that at least bikes like mine aren't motor vehicles. The Lt. asked me for their names to look up the case law but I told him that this site uses aliases. If someone who has had a citation dismissed here in Idaho would like to send me their name or case number in private I would forward it to the police and DA here to establish the case law precedent here. There are at least 4 motorized bicyclists here in town and I would hate to see them abandoning their bikes due to our police misinterpreting the law.
My position in this matter is being in compliance with the law. I didn't challenge the fact that the police are misinterpreting the law when I made my inquiry today. I went in with the premise I needed their guidance to assist me in locating the relevant statutes that mandate I require insurance because I could not find any due the classification of my moped.
Never confront law enforcement in an adversarial way. They will be less likely to be persuaded to consider your point of view. I've dealt with others here and in the other forum who have become adversarial and even combative with the police and they will lose every time that way. Not only that it makes a bad impression on others in out position on those who matter.
I'll post here when I get an update on this.
I made it a point to print out the state statutes and highlighted the relevant text before I went to the police. That's where I'm getting my info from. It's best to be as informed as possible before we get involved with these. Many people don't and some end up getting it in the end because of that. I've read posts from people in other states who dumped all kinds of money and time into motorizing their bicycles only to find out they aren't legal in their state when they got cited.Thanks for the update, I'll check up on it further as well. Not that I don't believe it or anything, if anything else, I just have more to take care of.
Yeah, I'm reading/printing that out now, I haven't found where it says above 50cc thought but I gather I will eventually. I may have to end up ordering a 48cc just to be safe. Any idea where I can find stating that 50cc and above requires a license and/or motorcycle endorsement.I made it a point to print out the state statutes and highlighted the relevant text before I went to the police. That's where I'm getting my info from. It's best to be as informed as possible before we get involved with these. Many people don't and some end up getting it in the end because of that. I've read posts from people in other states who dumped all kinds of money and time into motorizing their bicycles only to find out they aren't legal in their state when they got cited.
Hmm. Looking at the statute anything 50cc or above is considered a motorbike., motor-driven cycle, or motorcycle. Here is a flowchart I use:Yeah, I'm reading/printing that out now, I haven't found where it says above 50cc thought but I gather I will eventually. I may have to end up ordering a 48cc just to be safe. Any idea where I can find stating that 50cc and above requires a license and/or motorcycle endorsement.
That makes sense to a point, looking a bit further using the same chart. That would mean the mopeds aren't required to be registered/titled. However, a class d drivers license is required to operate. Also, I want to call around to Insurance companies and see if they provide insurance.Hmm. Looking at the statute anything 50cc or above is considered a motorbike., motor-driven cycle, or motorcycle. Here is a flowchart I use:
https://itd.idaho.gov/dmv/vehicleservices/documents/IDChart23WV.pdf
A bicycle with 5 HP or less is classified as a motor-driven cycle by the statute:
(13) "Motor-driven cycle" means a cycle with a motor that produces five (5) brake horsepower or less as originally manufactured that meets federal motor vehicle safety standards as originally designed, and does not include mopeds. Such vehicle shall be titled and a motorcycle endorsement is required for its operation.
This was found here:
http://www.legislature.idaho.gov/idstat/Title49/T49CH1SECT49-114.htm
Still waiting for a response regarding insurance. However, I did call the DMV, told them everything that I was doing with engine size and everything else regarding title/registering. I'll need to have it inspected by the state to determine exactly what classification it falls under. From the sounds of it, I may have to drop down to the 48ccThat makes sense to a point, looking a bit further using the same chart. That would mean the mopeds aren't required to be registered/titled. However, a class d drivers license is required to operate. Also, I want to call around to Insurance companies and see if they provide insurance.
49cc is fine. But for insurance it depends on whether bike ends up being classified as a motor vehicle or not. Above 50cc you'd have to apply for a title and registration and plates before you can get it insured. If you tell the insurance agent it's under 50cc you'll hit the same issue as me. one might be able to get liability for off road use but that's still inadequate considering that we use our motorize bicycles for on road use most of the time. Insurance companies underwrite policies according to use and risk associated with our vehicles and there is a huge difference in the types of risk between off road and on road use. They won't underwrite a policy for a non-motor vehicle for on road use because there is no such provision in the statute that requires it hence the very issue I brought to the attention of the police. If there was such a law that mandates our motorized bicycles be covered with liability insurance and the insurance companies refused to underwrite a policy I'd be filing complaints with the state commission that regulates insurance companies.Still waiting for a response regarding insurance. However, I did call the DMV, told them everything that I was doing with engine size and everything else regarding title/registering. I'll need to have it inspected by the state to determine exactly what classification it falls under. From the sounds of it, I may have to drop down to the 48cc