I know there are many different races but what is the adv. for the rules in the classes like engine cc size or any thing like that
event rules??
- Thread starter racing fan
- Start date
I used to keep score for action pistol events. There was 2 groups of 6 different classes. At 1st the idea was to even out the competition so a newbie didn't have to compete against a master. But then it got out of hand.
At Willow Springs, I competed against 4-11 horsepower bikes with my 2.8 h.p. electric. As much fun as that was, would have preferred to race with all types of MBs.
Reasons to group:
1) I.D.ing the top 4 stroke, 2 stroke, so on.
2) Attempt to keep hi-powered bikes from dashing by those slower.
Reason to not group.
1) Simpler to fill X number of slots for heat1, then heat2, so on. . .
Why not announce a heat race, when ?24? or so get lined up, take that group out on the track and give 'em the green flag. When that's finished and a certain number?24? gets in line, repeat. Top ?3-8? finishers promote on up. Some get to race abunch, after all they drove 10 hrs for that, and everyone has to have a strong finish to run the main. Buddies that want to race each other can; electrics can get up there early and have time to charge afterwards; ect. .
Love to hear an open exchange of ideas, however, if this thread degrades into personal attacks, I will delete my posts and not view here again.
Will
(adv. ie, advance, advantage, advice, . .)
At Willow Springs, I competed against 4-11 horsepower bikes with my 2.8 h.p. electric. As much fun as that was, would have preferred to race with all types of MBs.
Reasons to group:
1) I.D.ing the top 4 stroke, 2 stroke, so on.
2) Attempt to keep hi-powered bikes from dashing by those slower.
Reason to not group.
1) Simpler to fill X number of slots for heat1, then heat2, so on. . .
Why not announce a heat race, when ?24? or so get lined up, take that group out on the track and give 'em the green flag. When that's finished and a certain number?24? gets in line, repeat. Top ?3-8? finishers promote on up. Some get to race abunch, after all they drove 10 hrs for that, and everyone has to have a strong finish to run the main. Buddies that want to race each other can; electrics can get up there early and have time to charge afterwards; ect. .
Love to hear an open exchange of ideas, however, if this thread degrades into personal attacks, I will delete my posts and not view here again.
Will
(adv. ie, advance, advantage, advice, . .)
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Well thanks for that man, I too will not like to see it get nasty here but I made this thread so I could learn the rules in racing. I am almost done with my motor bike and it would be so fun to race it too, well this being my first motor bike how would I know the racing rules too so I am trying to learn them.
I guess it would be nice to -CASUALLY- discuss the rules here NOT insults or arguments thank you, and a newbie (myself) will pick up on the rules to learn them for myself.
Thoughts on this topic please...
I guess it would be nice to -CASUALLY- discuss the rules here NOT insults or arguments thank you, and a newbie (myself) will pick up on the rules to learn them for myself.
Thoughts on this topic please...
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Thats why i think qualifying would be awesome to sort out those top bikes rather then have them dashing by slower racers. that way the slower racers can have their own race an challenge each other and in the end, have a chance to win something, they may not win an engine or a sprocket of some sort as im sure those would be saved for the bigger races but it would give those slower racers something to look forward to as far as winning anything or having bragging rights
i think the trophy dash is awesome as it lets everyone at 1 time go at it just for the sake of it. but a mixed race with all sorts of bike stats can also cause problems for the faster racers trying to get the best time vs those slower racers just wanting to pace around a race track.
i personally was one of the slower guys at the willow springs race, my bike is not built to be a top speed racer, its more of show piece rather than apex eater. i had 2 problems being a snell on the track, 1-was having to always look behind me and having to worry about if someone smashing out way faster than me would come crashing into from behind or while in a turn forcing me out to the near edges to make way 2- it left me feeling really bad about getting into peoples way! as i know its a competition and i like seeing an well out even race so thats my 2cents
i am hopefully going to have something put together before the next race so i can avoid getting into peoples way. brokenpedals is fully torn down at the moment
Just have fun, build the best bike you can. I'm sure what ever you build there will be a class for it.
yea, but i need to know some rules or I might not compete in any class.
I am using a 1618 Tecumseh 2 stroke engine with minor mods,
like 5 hp 2 stroke motor that makes 7500 rpm and tons of torque like 8-10 ft pounds
what class may that compete in?
I am using a 1618 Tecumseh 2 stroke engine with minor mods,
like 5 hp 2 stroke motor that makes 7500 rpm and tons of torque like 8-10 ft pounds
what class may that compete in?
Oh ok, but is there a total speed restriction per class?
Say you could do 45 mph on say a 97cc bike and the class you where put in was say 100cc class but your bike was so fast they would bump you up a class.
Is that even a possible senaro? ( I really don't know)
Say you could do 45 mph on say a 97cc bike and the class you where put in was say 100cc class but your bike was so fast they would bump you up a class.
Is that even a possible senaro? ( I really don't know)
Where are these many different races that you know about?
Spooky Tooth held a Death Race in Tucson for the
last 5? years at the Musselman Honda Circuit.
I think they had about 9? races at that track.
I vaguely remember a recent race in Michigan? on an old
abandoned oval track that included some motorized bikes.
I just put on the first ever Motorized Bicycle race in
California at Willow Springs on June 18th.
What other motorized bike races have been held in the US?
Tucson races were mainly Chinese 2 strokes with a few Morini's
and a few 4 strokes. I don't think there were any rules?
Dave31 would know as he organized them. I was told that
there will not be another Tucson race this year.
The rules for the next race in Southern California are being loosely
formulated right now by yours truly.
Are you planning on coming to the next race here in SoCal?
Are you going to put a race on in Michigan?
What does "adv." mean?
depends on how they do it on the next race, there was some fast bikes at the last one. there was even a tandem hitting 50mph and he stayed in the same class all day with the 4 strokes i think
adv was average but it was a typo sorry LOL
OK so all the rules are pretty much race by race thing right?
OK so all the rules are pretty much race by race thing right?
Hi Will
Thanks for all your help at the last race.
Did you see the new race classes for the next Oct 22nd race?
I have no idea what to do with the ebikes except that you will be
treated the same as the gas bikes this time.
You eBikes get to race first in your own class. Then the top
finisher will get to race against all the other classes.
What do you think?
Track owner has offered a 5000kw generator for you eBike guys.
I don't know if there are high amp electrical plugs.
9 eBikes showed and only 2 finished and congratulations again
on your win in the class.
Like to get at least 10 eBikes to actually finish this time.
Huh? The only future race that I know about is the one in California on Oct 22nd.
You didn't answer any of my questions.....
Are you in Michigan?
There aren't any other races for motorized bicycles in the USA that I know
about so your question is impossible to answer. No races = No rules LOL
Where are all these mb races you were talking about in your first post?
We would all like to know.
The past races in Tucson were run rather informally as a fun event.
you can read the threads about most of the Death races right here in
the Events, Races & Rally Forum
This sport is so new & hard to define, it will mature or remain a niche novelty activity. Given the bazzilion bicycles in the world & the natural pull humans have to test thier machines in competition I would think it will grow.
Given the ralley atmosphere & usual "Best in show" gathering I think things are progressing as they should.
I do like the idea qualifying system that will group riders of like speeds together for some really good battling on the track. Transponders are the easy way to do this. & every one could be timed in a couple "timed practice" sesions. Absent transponders, the old flat track the" hot lap" qualifying sessions could work (but that would consume a bunch of time) set up the races in a revers ascending main formate (like sprint car racing & rc car racing)
As far as limiting equipment, thats a nasty can of worms, Kart racing has a bazillion classes & all maner of rules to keep the apples racing apples & highlight the drivers skills.
I don't like the idea of limiting creativity, that will advance the sport & make bikes more durable, safer, better.
But we need spec class motors (like 100cc 4-stroke china 2-stroke motors) then the demonstration class. (personaly I really don't care, just define the class & I will build to suit)
Limiting components to "bicycle-only" sounds like a good starting point. But I do advocate the best tires & brakes you can ride on. Motorcycle parts are less expensive in many cases & add a level of safety that bicycle parts cant match at the speeds we can develop.
Exaple: Pirrelli ML75's tires fit bicycle 20" rims perfectly & cost $25 each & will prolly last more than a seaon of competition. Hookworms in the same size are more $$ every where I look.
Manic Mechanic turned me onto a scooter front hydrolic brake that toataly rocks! For less than a $50 dollar bill. How much can you buy a set of Avid or other bicycle hydro brakes for? (haven't found any yet for less than hundred....used, & I have had them boill & fade away in 5 minutes of racing stress. You can't fit a Honda cr125 caliper onto a 20" wheel build (spoke clearance issues) so I use my scooter caliper & 203mm bike rotors & turn them blue in every rideing session.
On track ettiquete' another matter, If you are obviously slower than some one(getting lapped) it is considered poor form to hold any one up. Other than holding your line on straights (no weaving to keep guys guessing where you going) your good. The leading bike in any dual is presumed to have the right of way, (unless he/she does something really stupid LOL) But rubbin' is racing, & contact at times is inevitable. Acciedents will happen. Thats what the safety gear is for. Dress for the crash.
Rule #1 Have fun.
Rule #2 treat others as you would be treated. it works every where.
Given the ralley atmosphere & usual "Best in show" gathering I think things are progressing as they should.
I do like the idea qualifying system that will group riders of like speeds together for some really good battling on the track. Transponders are the easy way to do this. & every one could be timed in a couple "timed practice" sesions. Absent transponders, the old flat track the" hot lap" qualifying sessions could work (but that would consume a bunch of time) set up the races in a revers ascending main formate (like sprint car racing & rc car racing)
As far as limiting equipment, thats a nasty can of worms, Kart racing has a bazillion classes & all maner of rules to keep the apples racing apples & highlight the drivers skills.
I don't like the idea of limiting creativity, that will advance the sport & make bikes more durable, safer, better.
But we need spec class motors (like 100cc 4-stroke china 2-stroke motors) then the demonstration class. (personaly I really don't care, just define the class & I will build to suit)
Limiting components to "bicycle-only" sounds like a good starting point. But I do advocate the best tires & brakes you can ride on. Motorcycle parts are less expensive in many cases & add a level of safety that bicycle parts cant match at the speeds we can develop.
Exaple: Pirrelli ML75's tires fit bicycle 20" rims perfectly & cost $25 each & will prolly last more than a seaon of competition. Hookworms in the same size are more $$ every where I look.
Manic Mechanic turned me onto a scooter front hydrolic brake that toataly rocks! For less than a $50 dollar bill. How much can you buy a set of Avid or other bicycle hydro brakes for? (haven't found any yet for less than hundred....used, & I have had them boill & fade away in 5 minutes of racing stress. You can't fit a Honda cr125 caliper onto a 20" wheel build (spoke clearance issues) so I use my scooter caliper & 203mm bike rotors & turn them blue in every rideing session.
On track ettiquete' another matter, If you are obviously slower than some one(getting lapped) it is considered poor form to hold any one up. Other than holding your line on straights (no weaving to keep guys guessing where you going) your good. The leading bike in any dual is presumed to have the right of way, (unless he/she does something really stupid LOL) But rubbin' is racing, & contact at times is inevitable. Acciedents will happen. Thats what the safety gear is for. Dress for the crash.
Rule #1 Have fun.
Rule #2 treat others as you would be treated. it works every where.
Yes. it is surely for sure on Saturday October 22nd
If you think the Willow Springs was a lot of fun this next race
is going to be way too much fun. lol
If you didn't show at the Willow Springs race don't make the same
mistake this time!
You missed a once in a lifetime chance of riding a bicycle around
the Big Willow track which may never be repeated.
All the videos are great but not even close to the being there
experience..........
I will start the next Oct 22nd race thread soon.
Yeah, read the posts about classes. You're too easy on us e-bike guys. Maybe start a thread on 'Things to do to make your bike race reliable.'
I'm good with racing in an 'e-class.' And if there's only 3,4, 5 e-bikes, looks as I'll get to run with some of the Big Dogs, just not the BIGGEST DOGS. Guess I'll be getting more motor cooling and some gears. Your right though, let's count on a better e-showing at Apple Valley.
Looking a year ahead, think an 'entry level small motor class' would be worthwhile fun; easy for newbies to build or adapt their commuters, silver haired folks wouldn't need to worry about getting busted up, so on. . Alot of small motor kits to be sold!
Hopefully a transponder scoring system will come into use and make all this moot (If not, willing to help set up scorekeeping, get final scores diseminated and such).
Grange track looks very promising, 1 good long straight with lots of twisting turns. A 5000W generator would charge a half dozen+ e-batt packs simultanoeously.
Haha, I know some e-bikers that would like to actually finish as well. Good grief, 2 with flat tires?? Thanks for getting me another minute to prep for last heat race. My finish may have inspired some to focus on solid builds.
I'm good with racing in an 'e-class.' And if there's only 3,4, 5 e-bikes, looks as I'll get to run with some of the Big Dogs, just not the BIGGEST DOGS. Guess I'll be getting more motor cooling and some gears. Your right though, let's count on a better e-showing at Apple Valley.
Looking a year ahead, think an 'entry level small motor class' would be worthwhile fun; easy for newbies to build or adapt their commuters, silver haired folks wouldn't need to worry about getting busted up, so on. . Alot of small motor kits to be sold!
Hopefully a transponder scoring system will come into use and make all this moot (If not, willing to help set up scorekeeping, get final scores diseminated and such).
Grange track looks very promising, 1 good long straight with lots of twisting turns. A 5000W generator would charge a half dozen+ e-batt packs simultanoeously.
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Great thread!!
At this stage of motorized bicycling racing, we are all just looking to have fun! Of course we all love to compete and win, but just showing up and riding the track is fun!
At the last race I competed in the 4 stroke and got lapped by the leaders (at least once). My two teenage sons and their friend was on the track with me at the same time. In my mind I was racing against them. (two of them bet me... one son by 1 foot aggggh)
This industry has everything from 35cc 1.6 hp Subaru to 250cc 11+hp scratch built bikes. How can we effectively separate the two extremes, and all the rest in between, to increase the "fun" level for everybody??
My $.02
Have three classes. Slow, medium and fast. Or you could call them stock, modified, and unlimited. It could be grouped voluntarily (everybody signs up for the class that best suits their machine) or we limit each class to engine size. For example 0-50cc, 51-150cc and 151+ (or whatever engine size cut off makes sense)
I know there are potential "rule breakers" or "loop holes" to these classes. It's not fair for a 50cc 4 stroke to compete against a 50cc 2 stroke pocket bike. It's not fair for a 150cc super modified two stroke to compete against a 4 stoke whizzer. There is no perfect answer to this situation. My suggestion is to make this a starting point. Just like every rule, we tweak it after each event to close the loop holes. Also, if a racer is dominating his class, he (or she) should voluntarily move themselves up and respect the other racers.
Again, let me say I APPRECIATE ANYBODY THAT ORGANIZES AND HOSTS A RACE!!!
Me and my boys will race regardless of the rules set for classes.
At this stage of motorized bicycling racing, we are all just looking to have fun! Of course we all love to compete and win, but just showing up and riding the track is fun!
At the last race I competed in the 4 stroke and got lapped by the leaders (at least once). My two teenage sons and their friend was on the track with me at the same time. In my mind I was racing against them. (two of them bet me... one son by 1 foot aggggh)
This industry has everything from 35cc 1.6 hp Subaru to 250cc 11+hp scratch built bikes. How can we effectively separate the two extremes, and all the rest in between, to increase the "fun" level for everybody??
My $.02
Have three classes. Slow, medium and fast. Or you could call them stock, modified, and unlimited. It could be grouped voluntarily (everybody signs up for the class that best suits their machine) or we limit each class to engine size. For example 0-50cc, 51-150cc and 151+ (or whatever engine size cut off makes sense)
I know there are potential "rule breakers" or "loop holes" to these classes. It's not fair for a 50cc 4 stroke to compete against a 50cc 2 stroke pocket bike. It's not fair for a 150cc super modified two stroke to compete against a 4 stoke whizzer. There is no perfect answer to this situation. My suggestion is to make this a starting point. Just like every rule, we tweak it after each event to close the loop holes. Also, if a racer is dominating his class, he (or she) should voluntarily move themselves up and respect the other racers.
Again, let me say I APPRECIATE ANYBODY THAT ORGANIZES AND HOSTS A RACE!!!
Me and my boys will race regardless of the rules set for classes.
Racing Fan,
You got it, racing MBs is sorta race to race, track to track, and region to region. There's some races up North that have their own rules. One in Oregon is an efficiency contest.
The annual Tucson Death Race is pretty blended. 2 rules, 1) bike pedals, 2) no internal oil bath transmissions. Seems 66cc China 2 strokes are most common.
SoCal race at Willow Springs had 4 classes and a loose 11 horse power limit. As you can read here, ongoing change is the sports only constant (at this time).
You got it, racing MBs is sorta race to race, track to track, and region to region. There's some races up North that have their own rules. One in Oregon is an efficiency contest.
The annual Tucson Death Race is pretty blended. 2 rules, 1) bike pedals, 2) no internal oil bath transmissions. Seems 66cc China 2 strokes are most common.
SoCal race at Willow Springs had 4 classes and a loose 11 horse power limit. As you can read here, ongoing change is the sports only constant (at this time).
OK sorry I haven't look at this thread for a while.
I guess after I finish my bike I will look at the local races and see whats up with them thanks guys for the help.
I guess after I finish my bike I will look at the local races and see whats up with them thanks guys for the help.