Electric bicycle or moped?
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Hmmm, and these two articles are concerned with ebikes. What if they were gassers?
From the Jersey article:
IMO, this is not going well if police take it upon themselves to make this a case against people skirting DUI suspensions.
From the Jersey article:
IMO, this is not going well if police take it upon themselves to make this a case against people skirting DUI suspensions.
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I've spoken with that woman in NJ.
In NJ, any bicycle with any type of motor on it, is at least a moped, according to NJ statutes. (Of course large motors turn it into a motorcycle)
HER contention was the HR727 federal law is supposed to cover every state to say an electric bike of certain specs is just a bicycle.
However, that law only references safety requirements for sales across the country and has nothing to do with state's regulation of vehicles on their roads.
In NJ, any bicycle with any type of motor on it, is at least a moped, according to NJ statutes. (Of course large motors turn it into a motorcycle)
HER contention was the HR727 federal law is supposed to cover every state to say an electric bike of certain specs is just a bicycle.
However, that law only references safety requirements for sales across the country and has nothing to do with state's regulation of vehicles on their roads.
I can't think it helps the e-motored bicycle cause much that those things in the article look like scooters albeit with clumsy pedals added to pass muster.
In any case where Federal Law and State (or Local) Law conflict, Federal law takes precedence. So it would seem to me that what that city in NJ is trying to do is illegal. Of course, you'd have to take them to court and have it appealed to a Federal court before you'd get anywhere. In my state (North Carolina) they don't seem to have any specific laws on the books regarding eBikes so I'm not sure how it is handled. You can bet I'll carry a copy of HR 727 with me if I ever do get an eBike. 
There are a few points to consider..
1.) Yes, you are correct... It's basically a scooter (it has a deck to put your feet on) with some pedals added to make it "a bicycle".
2.) On the side of the actual bike it says Extreme Scooters.
3.) I've tried to pedal that thing. Best case scenario is prolly 5mph.
4.) She says, that she NEEDS the deck because of her back problems and can't actually pedal.. Even a regular bicycle she says she can't pedal.
5.) What they forgot to mention in that article is the fact that her back problems are from her drunk driving accident and why she lost her license in the first place.
6.) She says she didn't want to pay the insurance surcharges to get her license back, but she had the money to buy a $1600 Ebike?
7.) If she has really bad back problems, why didn't she get a mobility scooter?
HR 727 has nothing to do with state laws concerning e-bikes regulation and their use on each state's respective roads.In any case where Federal Law and State (or Local) Law conflict, Federal law takes precedence. So it would seem to me that what that city in NJ is trying to do is illegal. Of course, you'd have to take them to court and have it appealed to a Federal court before you'd get anywhere. In my state (North Carolina) they don't seem to have any specific laws on the books regarding eBikes so I'm not sure how it is handled. You can bet I'll carry a copy of HR 727 with me if I ever do get an eBike.
Could you explain why and what you're basing this on? Here's Section 2 of HR 727:
I'm not an attorney, but it would seem to me that as long as your eBike conforms to the limits of a "Low Speed Electric Bicycle" then HR 727 does apply and that states should consider it a bicycle and not a motor vehicle.
Also, as I stated above, it appears that my state (North Carolina) has no laws on the books regarding electric bikes. If you know otherwise, please provide a link so I can learn more.
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The above highlighted says it all...
It says nothing about state's regulatory codes regarding usage on public roads.
NC, an electric bike is considered a regular bicycle.
(Every site I've looked at, says that).
Dooh! You're right about HR 727. Thanks!
Regarding NC law, I haven't found anything to the contrary, so I'll just assume it to be so.
Regarding NC law, I haven't found anything to the contrary, so I'll just assume it to be so.
Right ? It's not a bicycle or moped ! It's a scooter ?
It might be easier to push it down the road than pedal it when the batteries run down.
Not a lot of public support for anything that gets people with DUI's back on the road I would guess.
DUI people sure do cause a lot of problems.
They do supply me with a constant supply of cans to cash in.
http://motorbicycling.com/f28/cans-27524.html
Hey, take those pedals off, put a larger motor on it and load it low with batteries so it would go about 45 mph or so for about 100 miles per charge and you would have something !
It would need a tag.
It would need a tag.
Just my two cents...we tossed this around alot in IL. And the sum total of all the debate ,moped ,scooter,MB whatever? Basicly ended back with the fed's (in IL?) .
If the "device" was not manufactured as a moped or scooter or motorcycle ,it has no vin or fed safety sticker... So they don't morph into something else when you add motor , they simply become ilegal to operate period...stink's right !
I would check into that were you'all at and see becuz most states use the fed deff. Of MB so they keep there fed funding coming in . None of us will ever be able to hold a candle to how much they want that fed cash flow, nomatter how manny MB riders there are in any one state. As usual back to the benji's....
If the "device" was not manufactured as a moped or scooter or motorcycle ,it has no vin or fed safety sticker... So they don't morph into something else when you add motor , they simply become ilegal to operate period...stink's right !
I would check into that were you'all at and see becuz most states use the fed deff. Of MB so they keep there fed funding coming in . None of us will ever be able to hold a candle to how much they want that fed cash flow, nomatter how manny MB riders there are in any one state. As usual back to the benji's....
How did you come to that conclusion about "illegal to operate, period"?
Could you tell me where that's written? Is there a federal statute you could point me to? I wonder if that's true for all states that don't have clear laws about MaBs.
One little tiny detail in one of the stories about the statutes that seems to bave been overlooked yet has a powerful impact of how the laws are interpreted is this common short statement written in the statute... "except when otherwise specifically provided by statute" or something similar to it.
When we argue that federal law trumps state law and that state laws trump county laws and county laws trump local ordinances it's usually a valid argument EXCEPT when the statutes from higher governments contain that little phrase. It gives the lower governments power to create laws that are more strict than the statutes created by higher governments and in some cases eliminates any conflicts that may arise from laws created by the various levels of governments.
Just something to consider when reading the statutes and generating an interpretation. When you see that phrase consider digging deeper into local county and city ordinances as well.
When we argue that federal law trumps state law and that state laws trump county laws and county laws trump local ordinances it's usually a valid argument EXCEPT when the statutes from higher governments contain that little phrase. It gives the lower governments power to create laws that are more strict than the statutes created by higher governments and in some cases eliminates any conflicts that may arise from laws created by the various levels of governments.
Just something to consider when reading the statutes and generating an interpretation. When you see that phrase consider digging deeper into local county and city ordinances as well.
I'm not saying I'm right ,it's just what I've turned up in tallking with:my lawyer, the IL. States attny. ,the ret. IL. States attny, and two of the local judges I know.
As I said in prior post, when questioned wether or not an mb could be reg. As moped or motorcycle that was the answer I got .
All the relevent laws in IL. Have some gotcha in the wording and many contrdictions ,some right within the same paragraph .
I'll try and find the post again when i get a min or theres tons of this debate in IL. Law thread.
As I said in prior post, when questioned wether or not an mb could be reg. As moped or motorcycle that was the answer I got .
All the relevent laws in IL. Have some gotcha in the wording and many contrdictions ,some right within the same paragraph .
I'll try and find the post again when i get a min or theres tons of this debate in IL. Law thread.
SEC. 2. MOTOR VEHICLE SAFETY STANDARDS. For purposes of motor vehicle safety standards issued and enforced pursuant to chapter 301 of title 49, United States Code, a low-speed electric bicycle (as defined in section 38(b) of the Consumer Product Safety Act) shall not be considered a motor vehicle as defined by section 30102(6) of title 49, United States Code.
And if that is the case, then wouldn't the state need statutes that govern bicycles and their usage on public roads?
Maybe I'm wrong here, but it seems to me that they could only go after some one riding an e-bike that adheres to the law in question if they first have the statutes on bicycles only.
Do you have another way to see it, or am I misunderstanding this topic?
I have a question about this. If by this statute, it cannot be considered a motored vehicle, then wouldn't it only be legally considered a bicycle?
And if that is the case, then wouldn't the state need statutes that govern bicycles and their usage on public roads?
Maybe I'm wrong here, but it seems to me that they could only go after some one riding an e-bike that adheres to the law in question if they first have the statutes on bicycles only.
Do you have another way to see it, or am I misunderstanding this topic?
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I would think that every state has statutes regarding regular pedal bicycles and their usage on public roads.
I think what your asking is if a state has no statute about electric bicycles, what law would you follow...
Well I believe most, if not all states do have Ebike laws, specifically concerning electric. If they don't, then they usually have a statute about some kind of vehicle with 2 or 3 wheels with a motor (not specifically gas or electric).
Is that what you're asking? Be specific as to what your trying to figure out.
What are you trying to ride? Is there a particular reason you're trying to figure this out?
From what I saw, OK defines (as of this year) an electric bicycle, a bicycle with 1000w max power and 30mph top speed, and ARE allowed on roads (just like a bicycle/moped) BUT, are considered mopeds for drivers Licensing and you must have a valid type A,B,C or D license.
I think what your asking is if a state has no statute about electric bicycles, what law would you follow...
Well I believe most, if not all states do have Ebike laws, specifically concerning electric. If they don't, then they usually have a statute about some kind of vehicle with 2 or 3 wheels with a motor (not specifically gas or electric).
Is that what you're asking? Be specific as to what your trying to figure out.
What are you trying to ride? Is there a particular reason you're trying to figure this out?
From what I saw, OK defines (as of this year) an electric bicycle, a bicycle with 1000w max power and 30mph top speed, and ARE allowed on roads (just like a bicycle/moped) BUT, are considered mopeds for drivers Licensing and you must have a valid type A,B,C or D license.
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There are conflicting laws on motorized bicycles in Ok, there is also a statute that declares that a gas powered bicycle is only considered a bicycle as long as it has under 50cc and doesn't exceed 30 mph.
I received a couple of tickets, one of them for driving under a suspended license that I intend to fight using that same statute.
The two tickets combined are over $500.00, but in 2006 the governor passed laws that citations for traffic violations on bicycles were not to exceed $25.00 per offense.
So long as I can get the judge to agree that under the law that my bike is considered a bicycle and not a moped, I should be able to beat the ticket, or at least get the fines reduced to about $50.00.
Oklahoma has a very large grey area on this subject and conflicting laws regarding them, only about three years ago the maximum motor size for the bicycles could not exceed 150cc, it is now 50cc.
I received a couple of tickets, one of them for driving under a suspended license that I intend to fight using that same statute.
The two tickets combined are over $500.00, but in 2006 the governor passed laws that citations for traffic violations on bicycles were not to exceed $25.00 per offense.
So long as I can get the judge to agree that under the law that my bike is considered a bicycle and not a moped, I should be able to beat the ticket, or at least get the fines reduced to about $50.00.
Oklahoma has a very large grey area on this subject and conflicting laws regarding them, only about three years ago the maximum motor size for the bicycles could not exceed 150cc, it is now 50cc.