much faster electric assist, after frame change out.

[NID_FTL]

I have had my 9 continent 36 volt front hub motor for a year now, I had it on a Hampton cruiser frame with single rail crank. I had an up wards speed of about 30 mpg here on the flats in Florida. a friend gave me a frame to change out "IronHorse" stepthru all aluminum frame with a tripple rail crank, front suspension and seat post suspension, I still have a 35lbs 12ah lead acid battery pack on my rack but this thing fly's. the local police radar sign clocks me at 38mph. just testing it out. This is with me cranking everything I got into it. I hear the LiPo's have an even stronger amp punch and hope the lowered weight assist in a lil more performance., My daily riding I seldom exceed 25mph. but it's nice to know you can punch it and go faster. I have not ridden it further than 12 miles, but has a bit less performance on the way home from long runs. I am curious if I can get a 48volt LiPo pak and use some sort of resistor to limit the voltage output to 36volt until I up grade to a 48 volt hub motor in the future. trying not to spend money like I'm made of it.

Logan\/

 

[zabac70]

You don't need "resistor" , you need DC - DC converter. Really , you don't need that eider , because you can over volt your motor safely; you'll get better performance , more range (because bike will use less amps) and more speed. Mind your controller, see if it can stand 48 V.
As for batteries , you'll be better off with LiFePO4 (Headway , for example). LiPo's are more fragile and sensitive (and less current per cell). However , many people use them , just because they have previous experience with them (model airplanes and what not).

 

[deacon]

I bought a larger controller and over volted my hub motor and i still don't like it. but I also over volted from 24 to 36 on a 250 watt motor. Not a lot going for it.

 

[SANGESF]

How did you get clocked? Do you have a friend who's an officer?

Also, I'm guessing that you have a Driver's License?

Do the police allow you to ride the electric bike that fast?
(Technically speaking, if it's able to go over 20mph, it's considered a moped)

 

[deacon]

since my bike would only do 20 if you dropped it out of a high flying airplane, I carry a copy of that federal reg with me where ever I go. It also says not over 750 watts but a 750 watt motor at 24v is rated at 750 watts on the motor label but at 36v it becomes over a thousand watts I believe.

 

[SANGESF]

since my bike would only do 20 if you dropped it out of a high flying airplane, I carry a copy of that federal reg with me where ever I go. It also says not over 750 watts but a 750 watt motor at 24v is rated at 750 watts on the motor label but at 36v it becomes over a thousand watts I believe.

Forget the federal regs.... They have nothing to do with state laws concerning legality of bicycles being bicycles per each state.

They are about safety requirements and not whether a bicycle is condered a bicycle or not within each state.

 

[deacon]

http://www.pedegoelectricbikes.com/electric_bicycle_laws/46

It is my understanding is that if a bike falls into this category no state can regulate it as anything but an ordinary bicycle. But I could be wrong, I often am. If you can show me any state law regulating a ebike which fits into this category, any different from a pedal bike, I would most appreciate it.

 

[SANGESF]

Electric Bicycle Laws

It is my understanding is that if a bike falls into this category no state can regulate it as anything but an ordinary bicycle. But I could be wrong, I often am. If you can show me any state law regulating a ebike which fits into this category, any different from a pedal bike, I would most appreciate it.

I dont understand the Question...

As an example...

In NJ an electric bicycle is considered a moped and you need a license.
(any speed)

In FL an electric bicycle is considered a bicycle and no license needed.
(20mph and slower)

In NYS an electric bicycle is not even allowed on the roads.


These are just 3 different examples of states regulation of electric bicycles in terms of their DEFINTION ACCORDING TO THAT SPECIFIC STATE.

Your electric bicycle is still considered an electric bicycle in terms of SAFETY REQUIREMENTS for the ENTIRE country... When it comes down to the state level, they then get to decide what kind of VEHICLE it is for themselves.

Those two things are mutually exclusive.


Another example of a different nature....
In Florida, if you have an electric bike that goes over 20mph, it's considered a moped and you need a license, if your electric bike can go over 25mph its considered a motorcycle and you need a motorcycle endorsement on your license. however, you can't register an electric bicycle for use as a moped or motorcycle, so you're not even allowed to have it used in the first place.

 

[deacon]

Like I said I have been wrong before. I always admit when I am wrong and I obviously am...In North Carolina where I live there is no mention of e bikes that I can find so I plan to keep right on doing what I do now. Consider my ebike as a bike.

 

[SANGESF]

Like I said I have been wrong before. I always admit when I am wrong and I obviously am...In North Carolina where I live there is no mention of e bikes that I can find so I plan to keep right on doing what I do now. Consider my ebike as a bike.

I looked for 2 hours and couldn't find anything either... I would say, follow the federal guidelines and you should have no problems

 

[motorbiker]

Florida law

2) BICYCLE.--Every vehicle propelled solely by human power, and every motorized bicycle propelled by a combination of human power and an electric helper motor capable of propelling the vehicle at a speed of not more than 20 miles per hour on level ground upon which any person may ride, having two tandem wheels, and including any device generally recognized as a bicycle though equipped with two front or two rear wheels. The term does not include such a vehicle with a seat height of no more than 25 inches from the ground when the seat is adjusted to its highest position or a scooter or similar device. No person under the age of 16 may operate or ride upon a motorized bicycle.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

20mph on level ground.

Just don't go uphill over 20 mph ?

 

[SANGESF]

Florida law

2) BICYCLE.--Every vehicle propelled solely by human power, and every motorized bicycle propelled by a combination of human power and an electric helper motor capable of propelling the vehicle at a speed of not more than 20 miles per hour on level ground upon which any person may ride, having two tandem wheels, and including any device generally recognized as a bicycle though equipped with two front or two rear wheels. The term does not include such a vehicle with a seat height of no more than 25 inches from the ground when the seat is adjusted to its highest position or a scooter or similar device. No person under the age of 16 may operate or ride upon a motorized bicycle.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

20mph on level ground.

Just don't go uphill over 20 mph ?

Actually the operative word in that entire description is....

and an electric helper motor capable of propelling the vehicle at a speed of not more than 20 miles per hour on level ground

If you have an electric bicycle "CAPABLE" of going over 20mph, it's not considered a bicycle anymore.... (That's means more then just don't going over 20. means, it shouldn't be able to even go faster than that.)

As a matter of fact, it's not allowed on the roads at all....
(You would be riding an "unregistered motor vehicle" at that point - e.g. you can't even register it, if you wanted.)

 

[motorbiker]

All electric bicycles I know will go over 20mph going down hill with no motor or pedaling depending on how steep the hill is.

On all of my factory built electric bikes the motor cuts out before 20 mph going uphill, downhill, on level ground, ect.

I am thinking as long as the motor cuts out before 20 mph you can go as fast as you can, up to the speed limit, uphill or downhill or level ground.

All my electric bicycles have motors that freewheel so that when the motor cuts out it becomes like pedaling a regular bicycle with gears.

Ezip Trailz and Lee Iacocca ebikes, born street legal.


edit, to be clear.

The motor rpm's are limited by the battery voltage and controller.

The motor is connected to a freewheel.

When the wheel starts spinning faster than the motor then the motor disconnects.

That is why changing the battery voltage from 24v to 36v on the ezip will make it faster. Higher rpms.

They changed the controller last year so people could not do this.

The newer controller on the Trailz will not come on with 36V.

 

[SANGESF]

All electric bicycles I know will go over 20mph going down hill with no motor or pedaling depending on how steep the hill is.

On all of my factory built electric bikes the motor cuts out before 20 mph going uphill, downhill, on level ground, ect.

I am thinking as long as the motor cuts out before 20 mph you can go as fast as you can, up to the speed limit, uphill or downhill or level ground.

All my electric bicycles have motors that freewheel so that when the motor cuts out it becomes like pedaling a regular bicycle with gears.

Ezip Trailz and Lee Iacocca ebikes, born street legal.


edit, to be clear.

The motor rpm's are limited by the battery voltage and controller.

The motor is connected to a freewheel.

When the wheel starts spinning faster than the motor then the motor disconnects.

That is why changing the battery voltage from 24v to 36v on the ezip will make it faster. Higher rpms.

They changed the controller last year so people could not do this.

The newer controller on the Trailz will not come on with 36V.

Exactly... That's why they say 20mph level ground.
Just about any bicycle that's normally set at 24v usually can't get above 20mph on level ground.

Perfect example is my Stingray OCC Chopper.. At 24v top speed on level ground (even with the wind behind me) was at most 16mph.

When I changed to 36v, I was able to do 23mph (level ground, good tail wind).
I had to add a Cycle Analyst to limit the top speed to 20mph.
(technically, I have 2 motors and 2 36v batteries and 2 Cycle Analysts - [cost of the CAs was $300 but I had to add them to make my bike street legal])

 

[KiM]

250 watt motor. Not a lot going for it.

^^theres your problem haha... anything under 500watt 36v setup is a complete waste of time IMHO.

It is my understanding is that if a bike falls into this category no state can regulate it as anything but an

Definitely not, Federal Law is for manufactures of ebikes to adhere to clearly states "No known federal regulations apply to the manufacture of homebuilt electric bicycles." You must check state laws. If you wish to start manufacturing e-bikes then you will have to adhere to the Federal Laws if not you cannot legally sell them in a shop.

"The Consumer Product Safety Commission(CPSC) stipulates that commercially manufactured low-speed electric bicycles, or tricycles, must have fully operable pedals, an electric motor of less than 750W of power and a top motor-powered speed not in excess of 20 miles per hour (32 km/h) with a rider weighing 150 pounds. An electric bike remaining within these specifications will be regarded simply as a bicycle for purposes of safety standards. This supersedes any state law that is more stringent, but only regarding safety equipment required on electric bicycles and the standard of manufacture they must meet.[25] The legislation enacting this amendment to the CPSC is also known as HR 727.[26]"

Can check the laws for your state it here

KiM

 

[Electric Rider]

since my bike would only do 20 if you dropped it out of a high flying airplane, I carry a copy of that federal reg with me where ever I go. It also says not over 750 watts but a 750 watt motor at 24v is rated at 750 watts on the motor label but at 36v it becomes over a thousand watts I believe.

Interesting. My 36v setup was sold with a motor rated 500 to 750 with no heat loss due to oversize wiring and insulation. Meaning you can overvolt it as much as you need to get continuous 750 watts and it will be stable. I haven't put a watt meter on it yet cus that's on back order but most members of the companies forum who have raised the volts to 48 say it does not pull near the 750 watts yet. In fact they are soon going to sell a 48 v battery to use with the same motor. ( controller will handle it) In fact the FAQ says you can safely overvolt it as much as 60 volts before you get close to frying the controller and the motor will handle it just fine.

If your info is correct, then at 48 volts my motor would be way over 1000 watts.

Where do you get the voltage to wattage info from that you used above? I ask because there is so much conflicting info out there, you just gotta weed through it all and I'd like to check it out in case my info is lacking.

Then there is this.. 20 mph only uses 500 watts. Going up toward 750 you can get speeds of between 32-35 mph ( but it doesn't mention voltage)
Electric Motor for Bike

 

[SANGESF]

All I can tell you is that my controller is rated at 25a for either 24 or 36 volts.
When I overvolted to 48v I was pulling the same...
All you have to do is multiply volts X amps to get watts.
Watts is a matter of power in usage at the moment, so depending on what volts you're using and how many amps you're pulling at the moment, that's your watts.
Example: From a dead stop, if I use 80% throttle, I'll pull the 25a my controller is limited too, and since I'm running 36v, at that moment I'm using 900w, and I'm only doing 5 mph at that moment. Once I get up to speed, and I'm doing 20mph, at that moment I'm only pulling, maybe 8a which = 262w.

Understand?
So with all ebike meters you will see...
Watts peak (in my case, usually in the 900w range)
Amps peak (in my case, usually 25a)
Watt-hours used (in my case, usually 1.3Kw)
Etc, etc.

 

[Recumpence]

You don't need "resistor" , you need DC - DC converter. Really , you don't need that eider , because you can over volt your motor safely; you'll get better performance , more range (because bike will use less amps) and more speed. Mind your controller, see if it can stand 48 V.
As for batteries , you'll be better off with LiFePO4 (Headway , for example). LiPo's are more fragile and sensitive (and less current per cell). (model airplanes and what not).

I am sorry, but you are wrong on both counts.

First, it will only pull less amps if the ratio from motor to wheel (if it is a geared hub, or a non-hub setup). If the ratio from motor to wheel remains the same, it will actually pull more amps with higher voltage because you will be running a higher top speed. This requires far more power. Again, if this were not a hub system and you could drop the gearing to match the added RPM with higher voltage, yes it would use less amperage.

Second, any modern Lipo pack has a FAR higher C rating (discharge capability) than LifePo4. Also, Lipo are not any more fragile than LifePo4. If you overdischarge or overcharge either type, you will damage the cells.

There is alot of misinformation going around regarding battery chemistries. However, Lipo are far higher output, cheaper, lighter, and smaller than LifePo4.

Matt

 

[SANGESF]

Tell me where I can get a 36v 15ah LiPo battery, BMS and charger for under $300.... That's what I need. Also, Newer LiPo has no Chance of exploding or catching fire?

 

[KiM]

Tell me where I can get a 36v 15ah LiPo battery, BMS and charger for under $300.... That's what I need. Also, Newer LiPo has no Chance of exploding or catching fire?

Lipos don't explode they never have, yes they can catch fire, the new lipos though are very resilient to overcharging compared to those of only a few years ago. Overcharging will still damage the cells but they have proven not to burst into flames as easily as older lipos. Test done recently by Endless Sphere member Liveforphysics saw Turnigy cells that are now being used by many lipo e-bike users pushed to 2v above maximum recommended voltage before they released smoke and flames, he shot them with cross bow bolts, stabbed them with knives, smashed them with hammer etc etc etc too show their performance attributes when mis-treated, do a search on ES for the videos of this.

As to your 300 dollar want of a lipo its doable if you build it yourself, i dont know of any off the shelf lipo packs available for the price you want. HobbyCity is where those of us using lipos on e-bikes buy from, 22v 5000mah packs are under 50 bucks for example, unsure without looking what the 18v packs go for likely alot cheaper, you would need 6 of them for a 36v 15ah pack anywayz.

KiM