Old Guys Simplex moto-peddle bike

[indian22]

Fabricated a shift peg/knob which extends the shifter outward an extra 1.5" & rode for a couple of hours. Shifting was much easier from the pedal, but it does take a bit of getting used to; rotating the pedal lever down for the left foot to be in alignment with the shifter for each gear change. I'll just be forced to practice till it becomes second nature.

Start up is best accomplished standing by the bike, with the right pedal up, followed with folding the starter to it's home position. Not much effort involved in starting, open petcock, choke, find compression & fires with a light kick. I like to warm an engine with no load for a couple of minutes at least before getting on the road.

I find myself starting from dead stops in 2nd. gear & in no way am I abusing the clutch in doing this...1st. is a real "granny gear" best reserved for climbing walls! When the middle gears are worn out 1st. & fifth will probably appear unused!

Can't express how much fun I've experienced on this little Simplex already & am looking at the weather forecast each evening with the next days riding in mind. I knew riding would interfere with more productive activity but right now I don't seem to care, lol!!!

 

[indian22]

It's really exciting to see the increased activity on the forum. Half dozen new threads or so and signs of life from those who have been shut down by winter etc. on their partially completed projects, which so many are eager to follow to completion in the coming months. Build on!

The Old guy is tinkering a little and riding a lot. 78 degree days will do that for you as well. I got around to pumping up the little air spring/saddle shock to 155 PSI (compression) over 55 PSI (rebound) ride pressures & noticed that the shock was quite canted to one side after riding, so cut & installed bushings keep it centered. Now saddle, shock, tires & bike all line up & are centered.

New Ion battery pack came in and is on the charger, so lights are a go. Think I'll test ride this evening and see how it lights up the night. Rick C.

 

[indian22]

After several hours of riding time I've a few observations about the Simplex Copper Gator. It really likes a warm up of a couple minutes before hitting the road which makes sense since I require a bit of warm up as well. She rides well although a non-bicyclist would require some practice learning to keep track of where both pedals are at a given moment. It's necessary & should become habitual for safe cornering, braking & shifting. Riding the Simplex isn't difficult, just different than resting on motorcycle pegs with your weight on the saddle & listening to the i pod. Use of the mind & the legs is required with the Gator.

It's fun in a four stroke multi-speed kinda way. I have decided that compression braking & multiple gears to choose from is something I've been missing with my single speed 2 cycles. This is not an indictment against my China dolls which I'm very partial to & still ride daily, but the Simplex is different and feels more substantial (it is at 120 lbs.) & dependable (which remains to be proven).

Then there's the power to get under way without clutch slippage or pedaling etc. I can accelerate out of dangerous situations & hopefully exercise the maturity to avoid using that same power to get into trouble.

Because of a bad shoulder the kick start was a deciding factor in choosing this engine over say the Predator even with electric start (which given space limitations the use of an electric starter would have probably eliminated the pedal drive capability on this build). Also early classic motos didn't often feature pull start technology or electrics so kick is just a bit more in tune with my "less is more" design.

Just a few of my thoughts to this point & I understand if you disagree with my design or the reasoning behind it; after all I am the Old guy & have over the years been wrong on multiple occasions concerning a variety of topics.

Rick C.

 

[silverbear]

Thank you for both the fullness of photos and commentary on this very special build. This is an excellent thread. And your thoughts on what feels vintage is much in line with my thinking. For me, much of the appeal of these self made motorbikes is the hovering spirit of those who came before us as home shop and backyard tinkerers. It is as if those pioneers are looking over our shoulders as we work, whispering suggestions as we tackle problems and smiling along with us as we ride off into the sunset on our mechanical ponies. Well done, sir!
SB

 

[Ludwig II]

Did you shut off with only one hand on the bars yet? For a small engine, it has a surprisingly big lazy feel to it.

 

[indian22]

Thanks Silver bear if I'm even in the same chapter as you I'm honored! I spend a lot of time in the old threads which are extremely informative. I like posts with detail & my favorite threads are those that not only tell but also show progress on each page of posts. The more the written detail the more photos necessary for clarification. Constantly updating the current progress details with photos of the complete bike on each page helps my understanding. I don't always get it done that way, but I'm trying to do better. Long threads are most difficult to follow without complete bike photos on at least every other page. I like the posts that encourage me to say, "So that's how they do that!"

Ludwig you've got a point about the CG 125 feeling like a larger displacement engine. I left the shop and drove about 2 miles to my home this afternoon & never took it out of third gear...kinda felt like an automatic other than using the clutch at stops. It's not the way I plan on riding everyday but it shows the motor's great tractability. The bike balances well in spite of the increased engine weight. The low center of gravity probably explains this, if the engine and the rider each were located 4" higher I don't think I'd be pleased with over all balance. Oh yes it is hard as **** for the old guy to pedal very far. Rick C.

 

[indian22]

Steering damper came in as did the 1 1/8" & 1" tube clamps. The clamps are also Harley style and are the variety used to mount foot pegs. I didn't have a clue if any of the before mentioned would work. Turned out to be a basic bolt on as if made for the frame, forks and damper. I'm sometimes lucky like that.

Short test ride turned into a half hour drive in the country and then around town, damper felt great & would definitely be a benefit in one of those "what if" or "oh crap" situations. Looks pretty good as well. Rick C.

 

[MEASURE TWICE]

I had not seen a dampener for a bicycle before. The one on a street bike motorcycle I rode had a knob on top the neck of the handle bars you turned to adjust. Different mechanisms I suppose to achieve the same goals.

I had not seen this thread recently and looked pack a few pages to see pictures of the bike as a whole. Very impressive!

 

[indian22]

Thanks, this also is a damper for motorcycles & is indeed intended for the same purposes. One of which is control of high speed shutter, often referred to as "death shake", among other nasty front end problems. The Simplex did not exhibit any of these typical problems in the short time I've tested. The steering was very quick, linear and predictable, but really fast and at about 35 degrees, left or right cock, it would "break" without any rider input. I had a new factory bike that did the same thing...damper solved that one also. The only time I noticed this problem was when I pushed it around by hand or when pedaling slowly in a tight circle. In an extreme riding situation it's something that could make a bad situation worse and now was the time to fix it. Accordingly I'm set at 25 degrees either side, stop to stop, & hopefully I'll increase that to 30 degrees or more which will be a big help in tight parking or storage ares. This damper actually serves as a stop or better stated a steering limiter as well as a damper... which won't trouble a rider but might cause problems with an upright cruiser doing 90 degree turns. Overall I'm pleased with the damper and the Gators's handling.

People are asking what my next build will be & I assure them that this one is still on going, but I need ti ride before I can refine. Rick C.

 

[MEASURE TWICE]

"This damper actually serves as a stop or better stated a steering limiter as well as a damper..."

Does the dampener have totally independent adjustment for dampening and left/right limits, or are they related?

I've not thinking my bike would use a dampener as it is for the trails and I'm not that all crazy to go through curves and hair pins at very fast speeds. The bike is geared low and max without over reving is about 17mph. However seeing the nice engine you have with all the power and adjustable gear shift, you could get to speeds for concern about high speed wobble.

I have one sort of strange thought, a dampener on my outboard if is were set higher, could have helped while I was adrift at 1/2mph. You see I was checking a fuel connection where an oring was dried out. I had an extra new hose to swap. As a swell came and without anchor down and being broad side to the swell it kicked the shaft in one direction and the throttle goes the opposite hitting me. Least I was not knocked overboard. The swells were closely spaced and high. I decides not to run directly down wind as air gap in the middle, underneath the boat would have the stringers creek and I had plenty of fuel to zig zag my way where it was big.

 

[indian22]

Bad situation that you described. This damper has stainless "arm" & anodized aluminum body & housing clamp. Internals?? At least the exterior could survive a salt water environment, but need to be sure on the internals. Offshore there are no little problems cause wind and wave always win in the end.

The answer to your question is a qualified yes. Damping is controlled by the knob on the body of the damper. Stops by the arm/rod length. Overall length of the damper on the Simplex is 10". Lock to lock is determined by the 10" overall rod length. With wheel centered & fork & frame clamps in their current position with the damper body clamp at the extreme rear of the damper, lock to lock isn't much more than 45 degrees total with about 25 degrees of that on the right side. Turning radius is therefore severely limited. I rode it like this as a test only. I will fabricate simple bracket plates to narrow the gap between fork and frame connections, thus allowing the forks a wider range of movement. By playing with the length of this bracket plate & moving the location of the bracket attached to the damper body I'll increase total lock to lock by an additional 25 to 30 degrees. That's my target for now and I'm positive it's the answer to the low speed quirk I've encountered. I'll add a couple of photos to those already shown now and add more when I mount the extension for testing.

I love the overall handling & braking characteristics of this little machine. It's behaved well at speeds up to 50 mph on some less than perfect roadways & that's as fast as I'll go on unrated tires. Cornering is also good but also limited by bicycle tires. Rides smooth even with the tires at max pressure and the saddle shock set extremely firm as are the forks. Braking is good and I've not yet, encountered any fork shudder under heavy braking...though they do rise to the occasion. Rick C.

 

[MEASURE TWICE]

Thanks for the update. Oh, meant to mention the outboard does have a dampener really necessary or the tiller would shake too much. I just had it set mid range and as you mention mother nature can be brutal. Nearing harbor I had about 20mph on my GPS record. I always have the anchor rode and chain, but never expected the unexpected. Now a lesson learned.

If you can figure more range of motion of the steering with the dampener attached see what you can do.

That's gotta be fun to ride that bike. It has a bit of class, the style and the color contrasts.

Shocks I have the I swapped from another bike to my ride, but they are just not sufficient and I slow on the trails a lot.

About tires for higher speed, I'm not sure there are ones for the bike rim sizes?

I was really thinking something was wrong when I saw trail bike tires being removed to be replaced. There was still what I thought was deep knobs. I heard it is not just that, but the sharpness of the edges of the knobs that makes them unsafe to use after wearing round.

It's been a long time that I ridden, but eventually the rain will stop and plan again. Its been necessary to have all the rain so can't complain.

 

[chucvn]

Thanks Silverbear I want this one to be special.

 

[indian22]

Twice, fresh tires make a world of difference off road. I use Rock Shoxs on my mountain bikes, air springs and shock combination...bit pricey yet worth every penny in performance, safety & comfort.

Speed rated bike tires are scarce, Coker Simplex is said to be good up to 90 mph & will mount to quality bicycle wheels such as Worksman. 26" x 2.5" but quite expensive. 21" motorcycle wheels & tires are about 26"ish mounted, but too wide for most un-modified bike frames. Just a couple of ways to go & there are others.

Fun to ride? Yes.

Been under the weather the last few days which gave me time to evaluate the Copper Gator in my build photo album. Something didn't quite look right in my opinion, although each individual element seemed fine.

My initial design plan was to build a Simplex... board track style moto bicycle. Longer, lower & racy with updated engine/transmission & power train. I wanted it to look like it was from a different age; a bike that was simply raw & elemental in nature. Not a show bike but one that could be ridden everyday & would be used frequently. I didn't want a trailer queen that I was afraid of scratching up. I think my goals were met, but still it didn't look the part for some reason. Yesterday I realized it was the handle bars though I love these bars they look wrong on this bike & today I ordered a set of Pat's Indian style bars in black...proper board track bars to complete the look I'd planned from the beginning. I considered the great Harley bars he makes as well, but think the Indian style bars are more appropriate for this bike. Still building the Simplex Gator and having fun! Rick C.

 

[indian22]

I ordered a set of board track bars from Sportsman Flyer this morning & they shipped this afternoon, priority 1-3 day...great service as usual!

The Grubee shown in the previous post was for comparison of the Indian style bars to the ram head bars of the Copper Gator Simplex, but I'd like to boast on the China girl Grubee. It's the most ridden of all my bikes. I built the motor & would guess power at 6 hp. I'm running a 48 tooth sprocket. The frame has been reborn 3 times & has about 6 to 7 hundred miles on it, over really rough roads...no cracks and no problems.

The current motor just logged over 250 hours of run time & at an average speed of 20 mph that's 5000 miles with only failures being spark coil and CDI. I run 30 to 1 Lucas semi synthetic & premium fuel mix.

The previous two engines reside in 2 of my other bikes, the scout and the outlaw. I'm guessing that neither has more than 100 hours on them with no major failures. They have bolt on "power parts" & might make 3.5 hp. but are not modified internally...just kit engines.

I also have a "fresh" seriously modified motor sitting on the shelf that I built for grins; one that one has been rebuilt twice after ring failures at high & prolonged rpm. I intentionally ran each till they blew!

What's the point of all this? Many bike riders don't even understand the basics of riding a two stroke powered bike let alone effective power modification theory. I've got a 50 cc Kawasaki in the shop that will conservatively make 12 hp & climb walls, well built and water cooled, I ride it differently than if it were a 4 stroke or an air cooled bike. Startup, warm up, riding and shut down are somewhat different between 2 and 4 cycle; for instance when using compression braking on a 4 cycle, lubrication continues... despite a closed throttle, but with a 2 cycle both lubrication & internal cooling are lost when the throttle is closed. So when you coast a long hill on your 2 stroke with motor engaged with the drive train you are putting excessive strain on all internal parts. Keeping fuel mixture moving through the carb is just one of the basic operation rules of riding a two stroke. Just like the old mechanics saying that 90 percent of all carburetor problems are electrical. Ninety percent of all engine failures is due to poor maintenance & worse riders! I encourage you to learn how machines work so they can serve you rather than you constantly servicing them. Rick C.

 

[silverbear]

Your Simplex keeps getting better and better...
SB

 

[indian22]

Thanks once again Silver bear. I hope you guys are out of the worst of Winter. Everything here is greening up and blooming really nice riding. Indian board track bars came in yesterday afternoon and I mounted them...course I've always loved the look & so think it's the improvement I'd been wanting. The bike already sits extremely low & the bars now add to that aggressive stance. I'll play around with bar adjustment to find a position that works for me. Once I get the bars and controls sorted I'll be able to move on to a more advantageous outcome.

Rick C.

 

[silverbear]

As Mr. Gleason used to say, "How sweet it is!"
SB

 

[Mr.B.]

What a fun ride!

Build story & machine...

-Mr. B.

 

[indian22]

Thanks guys! Mr. B excellent video on the links you provided, your bike makes me smile in an excellent way.

I have the steering damper working with me now & I'm marking it as a success. I can't say it was necessary but it does comfort me knowing it possibly is necessary. Two quantifiable benefits are less hand fatigue & reduced mirror "blur".

The Sportsman flyer bars are lovely & I've adjusted and ridden in all manner of adjusted positions. Finding one that looks just right as well as feeling best is really the problem (my problem not the handle bars) and I'm a bit stumped at this point as to a solution. The look I'm after provides too cramped a riding position and where it feels right, to this rider, the bars are out of visual position. The seemingly endless adjustments provided apparently aren't enough for my own peculiar requirements. I'll have to study the photos & the bike itself to come up with some possible solutions. Rick C.