Should I buy a Princess Auto/Harbor Freight motor, or China Girl?

Discussion in 'Motorized Bicycle General Discussion' started by motoringbike, Sep 28, 2017.

  1. motoringbike

    motoringbike Member

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    Princess Auto aka PA here in Canada is like America's Harbor Freight, and PA has Power Fist motor @ 79cc for $150cdn at 27lbs, 3600rpm, 4.5ft/lbs which I converted to HP is 3HP.

    Now the 180cc is 37lbs and $170 and convert ft/lbs to HP is 6HP so double the HP and Torque.

    There was a good dismantling video on YT about the PA Power Fist motor. And he compared it to Honda, and the Power Fist aka PF is a Honda clone.

    I remember reading that the China Girl aka CG already has reductions in the motor, while the PA does not. So sprockets are needed to get proper speed.

    I want to go on a long distance trip with a motorized bicycle.
    I weight 388lbs and will be pulling a trailer with gear in it, that would probably weigh another 100 lbs I am guessing. So lets round it up to 500lbs in total for everything, bike, motor, cargo.


    I want to travel at a constant speed of 50kph.

    Terrain, well its gunna be on the Trans Canada Highway through the Rocky Mountains.

    What are your suggestions in motor/kit selection.

    I know the PA-PF I need to figure out mounting, clutch, throttle etc.
     
  2. crassius

    crassius Well-Known Member

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    I think I'd be looking at a cheap pusher motor in the trailer just for use on long, steep roads (like maybe an 8 mile stretch of constant incline road) - also be looking at trailer brakes for long downhills.
     
  3. TheSignGuy

    TheSignGuy Member

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    Hands down don't touch that China girl **** go get you a lawn grade block,

    Pros of lawn grade:

    Longer life expectancy from anywhere to 5 years up to 40+ years.

    Thicker shaft less chance of snapping like a wimpy China shaft and comes in 3/4 shaft size +.

    Easy servicing with high grade bolts.

    Worst you'll endure is a burnt out clutch or having to remove carb once in a while at the (intake/care meet spot) and spray it out with cars cleaner with the addition of an air gun out.

    Vs the China girl:

    70% chance of survival after 3 months.

    Tiny engine shaft more likely to snap, if anything the only good about a China girl is chain drive but requires excessive maintenance it is also a 49cc proven so it can pass by law and can 89% of the time fit the frame without crank deletes which turns you toward motorcycle laws.


    The downside to lawn grade motor is if the pedals had to be deleted you are more likely to be pulled over.


    I built my first rig but still have not GPS tested.


    I feel 32-40 but not sure.

    I rid the fawk out my bike last night with for the first time and with pride shouted MB FORUM with pride hand a utility control push cable in my hand fired up!!.bf.(p)dnutdnut
     
  4. TheSignGuy

    TheSignGuy Member

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    Not trying to forum Jack but what's your opinion about on adding coil overs under this set up where the two big holes on the lower rack are.

    I currently have an issue with a slight wobble at times from the rack not being fully stout supported?


    Look for the green hole toward the bottom wheel. IMAG0152_1.jpg
     
  5. motoringbike

    motoringbike Member

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    What do you mean by lawn grade block?
    Do you mean a lawn mower motor?
    That would be a vertical shaft, not horizontal.

    The brand name engines like Honda are expensive!

    GX25/35/GXH50
    GX100/120 on up

    The GX25 is $300 while the Princess Auto Power Fist is $170 for the 80cc or spend $10 more and get 180cc where its an extra 85mm high, 50mm long and 35mm high. So not too too bad size wise. Get extra HP, which means could go faster if I wished but even electric bicycle at 50kph is fast, 60kph is stupid crazy wind in hair fast.
     
  6. TheSignGuy

    TheSignGuy Member

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    Kph k/mh is not equivalent of mph if I'm correct 50kmh is like 30mph red lining on a PGO star 50 which is identical for its time to a Honda spree af series.

    Dude all I am saying yes for price is OK and by lawn grade.... I meant outdoor equipment type engines.


    A vertical can be turned to horizontal by adding a tang to the connecting rod and modifying carb position.

    If you split open a Briggs animal horizontal racing you sew there is a long like pin/needle/blade thing made of solid steel hanging off the side of the connecting rod.

    At my peak I just found out my bike does 35 mph flat land lest then a few minutes ago via GPS verified in .59 miles (not) time to top speed as that's like 4 seconds or less I am only running 3HP at 150 lbs 3600RPM on a Briggs dated somewhere in the 80-90s.


    I'm under a 2 strokes power in Rpms as most start at 3800rpm.

    It's what you want.


    Technically a 2 stroke puts put more power and rpm then a 4 just be sure to check your local laws in your state as to comply.
     
  7. Nehmo

    Nehmo Member

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    I previously lived in Alberta. I know the western part of your route.
    If you have someone follow you with a truck full of parts, you can do it. If you don't have that, I bet I can beat you across using just my thumb.
     
  8. curtisfox

    curtisfox Active Member

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    Before you even think on traveling up there, check the laws. I think motorized bike are illegal up there, with electric only............Curt
     
  9. TheSignGuy

    TheSignGuy Member

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    Just notice he said "mountains" gonna need jetting defiantly.

    Up smaller jets

    Down bigger average jets.

    Flip or fail at this chance.
     
  10. Tony01

    Tony01 Member

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    Do some research. A lot of research. The 79ccis reliable but slow. But doing a bigger cc build is going to cost you in components and fabrication. Things will break. I suggest you build one first and pull the trailer locally for 3000mi and see what breaks, and what doesn't. I'm currently working on a new frame for my 212 bike, and when I finish, I'll be upgrading my 4x3' trailer with brakes and a surge brake coupler.
     
  11. TheSignGuy

    TheSignGuy Member

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    I agree with kilotony01

    My rig it's self is not suited for towing and breakage sucks.

    You'd be better off building on a fat tire bike though with narrow sided tires.

    Unless your able to make a belt or chain drive clear with A) homemade sheave spacer or B) A spacer for your axle sprocket.
     
  12. crassius

    crassius Well-Known Member

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    can't see a 'green hole', but I think I'd just attach a piece of pipe to chain stay and seat stay (like an arc tensioner is attached), and then attach that pipe to mid point of the flat legs of the motor support - should stop wobble OK
     
  13. TheSignGuy

    TheSignGuy Member

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    I'm a bit frame name illiterate chain stay is the opening where the wheel slides in right?

    Seat stay is where the seat post is?

    Sounds good, also if you look at the piece of bracket That's between the seat and motor that is not attached to the bike on one side look at the back side of the wheel where the bracket ends, that is the two open holes I speak of.

    There is one on both sides of the rack but I do like the chain stay idea... except probably would prefer to weld or precisely drill two holes per side on the back of the back bottom side of the rack and add on to extensions commonly referred in the moped world as shock extenders.

    That way it would be a solid mount point. If applicable could also add two more to the stays so the motor vibrations won't widen the holes over time.


    I'd prefer aluminium at the point, to prevent access weight gain.

    Would also be a good idea to add on a disc brake compatible front fork with adjustable shocks as wel due to I'm running a worn internal coaster brake hub.
     
  14. crassius

    crassius Well-Known Member

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    chain stay is the horizontal pipe from the dropout (where your brake arm is attached) - seat stay is the pipe coming off at an angle from the dropout to the seat - these are thin and clamping to them would be better than drilling
     
  15. motoringbike

    motoringbike Member

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    Thats the next step in figuring this all out is do I go 2 stroke or 4 stroke, I've read all the pro's and con's of each.
    Has to be on road, as the noise is going to be horrendous unless I can silence the beast!
    Next up is long distances at sweet spot rpm, we are talking 100km+ at a time or whatever the gas tank can do.
    Mixing I dont care if I do it or not.
    Main concern is power, I like power .trlrl. ya that emojicon suits it, or this one brnot.shft. but you get my point, POWER is the name of the game.

    Yes 60mph is about 100kph, so 30mph is about 50kph, that a bit fast for bicycle, but while riding on highway I think it should be good to burn away the "miles"

    When I ride in the city, 45-50kph is good for fast street riding, but pathways is more like 30-35kph. But noisy motor on pathway is not good, not good at all. On highway no one cares. Thats why I keep electric installed. 5000W (nom) rear direct drive motor, 4KV, with a Greentime Controller, spitting out copeous amounts of amps @ 72V thats for cycle/pedestrian pathways, sidewalks, parks, fields, and the river or lake pathway system where you always get a few Granola's and Tree Huggers doing their thang.
     
  16. motoringbike

    motoringbike Member

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    Princess Auto
    79cc motor is 9"W x 12.8"L x 12"H @ 27 lbs
    180cc motor is 12.4"W x 14.7"L x 13.4"H @ 37lbs

    so an extra 3.4"W x 2"L and 1.4"H which is nothing when doing a pusher trailer, but is something if installing it above crank, rear rack mounting who knows, need steel to build your own rack. I think for me, a Pusher Trailer is great. Probably just build it out of wood to keep costs down.
     
  17. motoringbike

    motoringbike Member

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    196cc for $100cdn what a sweet sweet deal, same size and weight as 180cc
    Sale Ends in 2 days on Oct 1
     
  18. dogcatcher

    dogcatcher Member

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    I suggest you first read this man's blog about his trip across America. http://wymanmemorialproject.blogspot.com/2016/05/rif-addams-is-motor-assisted-bicyclist.html
    Then research his hero George Wyman. This is not so much about equipment, but the ordeals of such a trip. The blog rider had a backup pickup as his support unit. That is like a credit card on a trip, on a motorized bicycle trip I would not think about going across Canada without a support vehicle. I wouldn't do a trip like that across Texas without a support vehicle, and that is only about a 860 miles from El Paso to Shreveport LA.

    There are people that have done the trip from California to Florida, on non motorized bicycles, coast to coast, ocean to ocean. Without support vehicles, but a bicycle has less parts to leave you stranded in the middle of nowhere. I have been through the western half of Canada several times in my younger days, I would think sometimes finding parts could be a major problem. You might find some bicycle travel blogs to get ideas of supplies, food, water etc., that you might want to consider.

    I wish you the best of luck and success in your plans. I envy you, but at 70, I have already had enough chances at doing crazy things.
     
  19. TheSignGuy

    TheSignGuy Member

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    4 stroke by far is the best choice for longevity less noise and less likely to be complained at by people behind you, or crossing your pathway.

    2 stroke is more likely to get BHG vs 4 just think if you want torque 4 strokes better but if you want power best option is to go a bit bigger in regards to your needs.

    4 stroke is also more hardy to improper care tuning....

    2 stroke must be perfect coffee brown if you like modding always go 2 stroke however I don't want to do extensive mods.

    Difference between the two in a 2 you have to do all the mods at once exhaust, carb, jets, and filter in 2 stroke the more air you cram the more power Vs 4 you can slap a part in at a time possibly just a lumpy cam without timing MOD.

    Nothing worse then thinking your 2T failed when it's just about plug choice hot Vs cold plug.




    I run cold plugs so I can run a bit hotter and richer and once it's to temp it's still saving fuel "4T."
     
    #19 TheSignGuy, Sep 29, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2017
  20. TheSignGuy

    TheSignGuy Member

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    If it's just a pusher don't do wood it will rot and distort over time better off bolting steel plates together to create a solid frame.

    Align the trailer with some bricks as well to keep it on the ground.

    Last but not least, make sure that you do a studded tire/s for the winter if you cannot afford one put slime or sealant inside in tubeless models if these will be homemade studded tires.

    "Wood screw method"

    If you go with tubes be sure to put a mildly thick foam padding as to prevent your tube from busting.
     

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