Hybrid motorcycle??? Possible???

irishpowerjunkie

irishpowerjunkie

Member
I am considering going back to college to do a mechanical and electrical engineering course and have been considering projects, and I thought of something like a large cruiser such as a bandit or virago or something with a cradle style frame and putting a 150cc lifan 4 speed horizontal engine and a 2-3kw 48 or 60 volt electric motor and controller of around 100-150amp rating through a jackshaft to back wheel via a chain, sound relatively safe and doable or simply crazy and stupid? All input welcome
 
Member indian22 has built one, you should check out his build in the “old guys simplex...” thread. And he has done some serious road tripping on that build.

I’ve been considering building one using a planetary gear set, with two electric motors like a Toyota Prius power split device. Together with electronic ignition and throttle, it could all be controlled via a raspi from the throttle. I have the mechanical side handled, and I’ve got an idea of algorithms for the computer side. I can’t really say for certain how it’ll run because I need to do a lot more research.

But then every time I think about it, I think to myself that I could just put a much larger battery (ie... $2000) and an onboard Level 2 charger on my already fast ebike “worlds fastest schwinn” for simplicity. Problem is I’m limited to approx 1kw charge rate on the 110v plugs of local streets. I just don’t have the time or money to do it.

You kinda have to go at it with the question “what problem am I trying to solve?” And the best ways to go about it.
 
Tony01 said:
Member indian22 has built one, you should check out his build in the “old guys simplex...” thread. And he has done some serious road tripping on that build.

I’ve been considering building one using a planetary gear set, with two electric motors like a Toyota Prius power split device. Together with electronic ignition and throttle, it could all be controlled via a raspi from the throttle. I have the mechanical side handled, and I’ve got an idea of algorithms for the computer side. I can’t really say for certain how it’ll run because I need to do a lot more research.

But then every time I think about it, I think to myself that I could just put a much larger battery (ie... $2000) and an onboard Level 2 charger on my already fast ebike “worlds fastest schwinn” for simplicity. Problem is I’m limited to approx 1kw charge rate on the 110v plugs of local streets. I just don’t have the time or money to do it.

You kinda have to go at it with the question “what problem am I trying to solve?” And the best ways to go about it.
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Well I was thinking a more simplified approach with it, 2 throttles that you independently control and each system is independent of the other, the only thing they would share would be a jackshaft linking the 2 chains to the back wheel, and I can't go about it the way he done the simplex build as Ireland doesn't have such open laws around modification and alteration of vehicle chassis, boltons are allowed but generally for road going vehicles drastic rebuilding is frowned upon
 
Tony01 said:
Member indian22 has built one, you should check out his build in the “old guys simplex...” thread. And he has done some serious road tripping on that build.

I’ve been considering building one using a planetary gear set, with two electric motors like a Toyota Prius power split device. Together with electronic ignition and throttle, it could all be controlled via a raspi from the throttle. I have the mechanical side handled, and I’ve got an idea of algorithms for the computer side. I can’t really say for certain how it’ll run because I need to do a lot more research.

But then every time I think about it, I think to myself that I could just put a much larger battery (ie... $2000) and an onboard Level 2 charger on my already fast ebike “worlds fastest schwinn” for simplicity. Problem is I’m limited to approx 1kw charge rate on the 110v plugs of local streets. I just don’t have the time or money to do it.

You kinda have to go at it with the question “what problem am I trying to solve?” And the best ways to go about it.
Click to expand...

Tony you may have seen Micah Toll's blog (Electrix) on wiring two direct drive hub motors using a single controller and single throttle or read it in his little overpriced book. I saw the YouTube version. Thought it might be helpful for double e-motors, but no help I'd think on hybrid gas/electric throttle control.

Though my hybrid throttle solution isn't elegant it is simple and works. My bikes are mostly vintage look and dual gas and electric throttles date back to the first decade of twentieth century motoring.
On the early moto bikes it involved spark timing advance with one twist throttle & carb control with another twist grip. This had a two fold purpose retard advance for starting & increased advance for better performance to facilitate higher speeds. It's amazing how quickly I adjusted to using both the electric & ICE throttles in conjunction, on my hybrid. It is intuitive.



Rick C.
 
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indian22 said:
Tony you may have seen Micah Toll's blog (Electrix) on wiring two direct drive hub motors using a single controller and single throttle or read it in his little overpriced book. I saw the YouTube version. Thought it might be helpful for double e-motors, but no help I'd think on hybrid gas/electric throttle control.

Rick C.
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Was really thinking a more analogue setup for throttle where the systems are independent of one another, will make for cluttered and tight bars but, will allow me more control and flexibility of use
 
irishpowerjunkie said:
Was really thinking a more analogue setup for throttle where the systems are independent of one another, will make for cluttered and tight bars but, will allow me more control and flexibility of use
Click to expand...

I just edited my post to go into the why and how detail of the analog approach I took on my hybrid.
 
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Ah here's the rub there's multiple bike build's in that 99 page thread. My hybrid is a 2 cycle CG with 500 watt front hub at 48 v. wink, wink. Dual twist throttles gas on the right and e-hub on the left

Rick C.

saddlebags hybrid.jpg
 
indian22 said:
Ah here's the rub there's multiple bike build's in that 99 page thread. My hybrid is a 2 cycle CG with 500 watt front hub at 48 v. wink, wink. Dual twist throttles gas on the right and e-hub on the left

Rick C.

View attachment 103164
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batteries in the panniers? I had a idea for same or similar hardcases on a rack either side, no wonder I hadn't seen that, last I checked it was the actual simplex trike thing with 2 separate wheels at back and 3 chains I think it was to run them
 
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Much has changed on multiple projects, Simplex and others. The bike has the capability of mounting up to five lithium packs one in each bag, another on top the rack, one mounter on the forward down tube and another between the seat tube and the rear tire. In daily use I only carry the one battery pack up front under the down tube, but on ling crises I add some extra 20 amp packs. I did a 500 + mile trip this Fall on gas and electric three day deal shortened to three because of severe incoming weather. I did a few 50 to 100 mile runs prior to that as trials. The setup works.

Rick C.
 
indian22 said:
Much has changed on multiple projects, Simplex and others. The bike has the capability of mounting up to five lithium packs one in each bag, another on top the rack, one mounter on the forward down tube and another between the seat tube and the rear tire. In daily use I only carry the one battery pack up front under the down tube, but on ling crises I add some extra 20 amp packs. I did a 500 + mile trip this Fall on gas and electric three day deal shortened to three because of severe incoming weather. I did a few 50 to 100 mile runs prior to that as trials. The setup works.

Rick C.
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that's a lot of battery, must take some amount management for battery charging knowing which needs charged and doesn't, and planning for wiring so you don't damage any battery inadvertently by differing charge states in longer journeys
 
Each pack has it's own BMS built in. I only run one battery at a time, so balance between packs isn't required. On lengthy rides when one battery goes weak I have a single 10 ga. cable made up to run from the controller to the next pack no switch just plug in the cable connector to a fresh pack, as each runs low. All the connectors on my batteries are the same type and can be shared with my two other e-bikes by just strapping the panniers on & taking the cable with me. The individual battery packs aren't interconnected. Very simple low tech solution. Charging packs overnight is also simple I carry two chargers with 4 hr. charge time so four batteries topped off overnight. Auto shut off at 80% charge. On my most lengthy ride I only took four packs & never had to charge more than two batteries per night. I averaged using about a gallon of gas per day and that equals about 100 mpg @ 30mph so two batteries accounted for about 70 miles per day @ 15 mph neither completely drained of course. I did some pedaling with the batteries as well, but mainly for the exercise except for the run back home to beat the storm when I used both motors to increase my fuel efficiency and I was on the fourth battery when I rolled into my driveway, but still had fuel in the tank and some battery left in the pack so my strategy worked. I returned much faster than I went out.

Rick C.
 
Irish getting back to your original post I'd think a 4 speed Lifan horizontal an excellent choice to build around. They do require the right frame to mount to without major tube work and stretch. Jack shaft and mid-motor to rear drive shouldn't present you too many difficulties. If it were too simple it probably wouldn't qualify as a decent classroom credit.

Though I've not built a bicycle using the 4-speed Lifan horizontal I have used several to build youth go-carts and they held up to a lot of abuse pretty well. The auto version of these was really hard on clutch on carts but would probably do fine on a bike. I like the 4 speed manual version better.

The electric opens up a lot of possibilities for creativity & is really functional in practical daily riding. Practical & dependable clutch lockout on the I.C.E. is a must to really enjoy using the e-motor by itself. While using both motors and pedaling is both fun and useful on occasion.

Rick C.
 
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indian22 said:
Irish getting back to your original post I'd think a 4 speed Lifan horizontal an excellent choice to build around. They do require the right frame to mount to without major tube work and stretch. Jack shaft and mid-motor to rear drive shouldn't present you too many difficulties. If it were too simple it probably wouldn't qualify as a decent classroom credit.

Though I've not built a bicycle using the 4-speed Lifan horizontal I have used several to build youth go-carts and they held up to a lot of abuse pretty well. The auto version of these was really hard on clutch on carts but would probably do fine on a bike. I like the 4 speed manual version better.

Rick C.
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I am having a hard time trying to figure the frame part but I have about 18months to figure the starting point out so I should be ok I think, and plan was more a road registered motorbike as opposed to bicycle but I admit I stole some inspiration from grasshoppers triple threat build, was looking at manual over semi auto engine wise just so theres less interference with each other as I remember a semi auto quad we had 15 years ago bump starting due to bad starter by holding gear Stick forward and pushing and letting into gear once moving
 
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