GT5 66cc Stock Chain - How Much Risk ??

[Motorbikenewb]

Greetings......So I bought the subject kit from gasbike.net (http://www.gasbike.net/product_51_detailed.html), installed it and I'm currently shaking out the bugs. The engine is running fine, the back sprocket is installed and aligned properly and I'm confident I've installed the chain properly.

My big concern is this: How much risk am I taking by using the stock 415 chain that came with the kit? I've been reading all sorts of horror stories about the stock chain failing (breakage mostly), and I'm scared to death that it will break and tangle with the rear spokes.. ruining the rear wheel and worse causing me to roll the bike and hurt myself.

Also: when re-attaching the chain after shortening it what are the advantages and disadvantages of using the master link vs re-using the pin from the chain?

Thanks in advance for your advice.

 

[maniac57]

My stock chain whipped the snot out of the back of my leg when it went, but never got close to tangling in the wheel. I'd be more concerned with case breakage if it wads up on the front sprocket. Welts heal, cases cost money.
The master link is slightly thicker than a regular link which might cause rubbing in the sprocket cover and you can lose the retaining clip if it rubs the frame or tensioner wrong when backing the bike, so I prefer to use regular links. Master link is a good thing to carry just in case though...

 

[crassius]

once I learned to properly align chains, I've never had another problem with even the cheapest chains

roll the bike till tightest spot, then set the tensioner

set the tensioner so that it feeds the bottom run of the chain EXACTLY onto the bottom of the rear sprocket

grind the sides of the teeth of the back sprocket to sharp points so they'll find the center of the chain links

make sure the engine stays solid and can't lean to the left & throw off the chain

 

[Motorbikenewb]

Good tips.. thanks.

 

[maniac57]

Aside from grinding the sprocket, this is good advice.
(Ground off metal is mileage you cannot ever get back.)
There should not be any tighter spots on a properly installed sprocket. Take the time to get it centered as well as straight.

 

[bairdco]

after 3 broken chains and a broken case from the last one, i run Diamond chains on all my bikes.

my first bike broke the masterlink on it's first trip around the block, and i've broken them on regular pedal bikes in the past, so i don't use them.

and i don't run tensioners, either. since it's not spring loaded and doesn't move, it's not technically a tensioner. at best it's a guide, and realistically, it's because most people don't have a chain tool, so they can use the entire chain.

it's also good for breaking spokes when it fails and falls into your rim.

masterlinks and chain tensioners are just extra parts, and extra parts mean more chances for failure.

but that's just my opinion (based on experience.)

 

[maniac57]

after 3 broken chains and a broken case from the last one, i run Diamond chains on all my bikes.

my first bike broke the masterlink on it's first trip around the block, and i've broken them on regular pedal bikes in the past, so i don't use them.

and i don't run tensioners, either. since it's not spring loaded and doesn't move, it's not technically a tensioner. at best it's a guide, and realistically, it's because most people don't have a chain tool, so they can use the entire chain.

it's also good for breaking spokes when it fails and falls into your rim.

masterlinks and chain tensioners are just extra parts, and extra parts mean more chances for failure.

but that's just my opinion (based on experience.)

I agree. I use the guide roller due to frame interference but wish I could lose it. I also use HD#40 roller chain. This was the single best upgrade I've done, period.
Bulletproof driveline. I have not had to touch the chain slack in months.

 

[Motorbikenewb]

I agree with you 100%. More components increases complexity and risk exponentially. That said I'm forced to use the tensioner because the chain is shortened to the point where if I remove 1 more link it won't join up. But as it is now, it would rattle around and have too much slack without the tensioner.

I've been hearing about a half master link. Is there such a thing. That should tighten up my chain and remove the need for the tensioner. Thoughts????

 

[Legwon]

I agree with you 100%. More components increases complexity and risk exponentially. That said I'm forced to use the tensioner because the chain is shortened to the point where if I remove 1 more link it won't join up. But as it is now, it would rattle around and have too much slack without the tensioner.

I've been hearing about a half master link. Is there such a thing. That should tighten up my chain and remove the need for the tensioner. Thoughts????

Yes there is half links for the 410 the 415 and the 420 chain.
Myself I'm using the 41 chain , and I have had 0 issues with it ... again there is half links for that
My first engine, I ran the 410 and it was a nightmare!!! but I may have had alignment issues with that. can't remember it was so long ago, but i just didn't want to go thru that again

 

[picklefish]

where can I buy these heavier duty chains? moped store, motorcycle store, bicycle store? I think an alignment issue will be an issue no matter the chain size. And its an issue that should be corrected no matter the chain. This forum has helped me so much in figuring out these issues.

 

[crassius]

Aside from grinding the sprocket, this is good advice.
(Ground off metal is mileage you cannot ever get back.)
There should not be any tighter spots on a properly installed sprocket. Take the time to get it centered as well as straight.

I've found that sprocket wear is most often at the valley between teeth rather than at the tips of the teeth - I only grind 1/8 inch at the very tip.

I've never seen an absolutely perfect mount with the rag joint, and most I see are folks coming in with chain problems along with slightly off mounts that can have the chain problems fixed for $10-$15 rather than doing the way more expensive re-mount.

 

[picklefish]

I make sure all the tips of the bolts are the same length after they are tightened. It took many turns around the circle to get them all the same. I need a cone wrench to adjust my cones, lol.

 

[Legwon]

where can I buy these heavier duty chains? moped store, motorcycle store, bicycle store? I think an alignment issue will be an issue no matter the chain size. And its an issue that should be corrected no matter the chain. This forum has helped me so much in figuring out these issues.

i personnally picked mine up at Princess Auto.
http://www.princessauto.com/pal/product/3850476/Chain/#41-Single-Strand-Roller-Chain
http://www.princessauto.com/pal/product/3840173/Linkage/ASA-#41-Offset-Link
http://www.princessauto.com/pal/product/3840180/Linkage/ASA-#41-Connecting-Link

ive read that the #40 will work as well with a little modification, havnt tried it myself.
the #41( that i have) was wide enough the perfect alignment is not necessary. but Not TOO wide for the drive gear on the engine.

im sure that most bike shops or gear shops would carry these items.

 

[picklefish]

I will def look for these around town. thanks

 

[picklefish]

so I called the local bike shop and the guy said that I cant use just any chain because it wont match my sprokets. What the what? any ideas, the chain that came with the kit keeps pulling apart under stress. alignment is good, dish is good etc. I was hoping to get this fixed today.

 

[Legwon]

the #40 and #41 both match the pitch of the original 410 chain, they are suitable replacements. if not ask for chain with 1/2" pitch just not too wide.

 

[picklefish]

so I went and got a chain that was $15.00 and put it on, then took the old bicycle chain off and put on the chain that came with the kit origionally. I got both chains relatively close in length. I put the kit tensioner back on on the engine side. I got it up and running and it ran twice as long as before I think 6min max. then it threw the chain on the engine side away from the tire. so we readjusted the tensioner, who knew a chain would streach a little when brand new? Now the thing hums right along, its all bad ass a stuff! My Dad 67 even took it for a spin and was having a ball!~ Now the goal is to get it to idle, shouldnt be a big deal there, a tweak to the clutch controlls and maybe a quarter turn to the idle adjuster. The vibrations made one screw come out of a piece of chaingard on the bicycle side. Im prepared with the locktight tonight! I learned alot doing this project. Mostly about what a mechanical dumbass I am! lol. All those highschool years with that manual volkswagon thing and I didnt learn a thing!! Im gonna be ready to build another one real soon as my Dad was talking about what he wants.

 

[Legwon]

yes a chain will stretch when its new. even mine did, though it said it was pre-stretched :s
be careful where u put the locktite, u may have issues getting the bolts out later.use nylon lock nuts if u can.

Good to hear u got things working

 

[picklefish]

Thanks too you all in this awesome forum! I was puttin the locktite on the trim piece screws. maybe I will do nylons instead.

 

[bairdco]

chains don't really stretch. i mean, the links don't get any longer.

when new, after a couple rides, it seats itself into the sprockets and all the links and rivets work themselves into place, that's what causes it to loosen up.

the rollers on the chain wear as it ages, that's why it's mistakenly called "stretch."

the teeth on the gears will also wear, and over time can develop a sawblade look to them from constantly moving in the same direction.

on older bikes, a lot of times a new chain won't fit on an old sprocket because the teeth have worn so much.