Why start with crap? Top Quality DIY for $347

[fatdaddy]

Not tryin to bust yer bubble Big, But just cause it says "LIFAN POWER USA" don't mean it's actually made in the U.S. Matter of fact, It's also made in china. That being said, I think it's a GREAT choice for a MB build. Lifan is kinda in bed with Honda and helped design the GX series. So they put out a great engine.
And almost 100cc ought to push a motorbike along pretty good. Good luck on yer build.
fatdaddy.

 

[bigbutterbean]

Not tryin to bust yer bubble Big, But just cause it says "LIFAN POWER USA" don't mean it's actually made in the U.S. Matter of fact, It's also made in china. That being said, I think it's a GREAT choice for a MB build. Lifan is kinda in bed with Honda and helped design the GX series. So they put out a great engine.
And almost 100cc ought to push a motorbike along pretty good. Good luck on yer build.
fatdaddy.

Lol I know the motor is made in China, but when I said American made, I was referring to the Schwinn cantilever frame (not all are made in America, but you could tell by looking at this one it is) and the agk transmission. I think the MaxTorque clutch is also American made, but not positive about that. But no, the engine is not lol. But 4 stroke engines are typically known to last much longer. Some 2 stroke engines last a long long time, but the ht engines only last awhile. Even the ones that dont break down every couple of months. I know I'll be able to get thousands of miles out of the Lifan engine. With the ht engines, no one knows for sure whether they got a good engine or a so-so engine.

 

[16v4nrbrgr]

I think Chinese stuff is perfectly acceptable in quality as long as you pick and chose major name brands and use them appropriately.

Taking a $89 bike and motorizing it contains inherent risks. Metal fatigue at weld joints on cruisers is a biggie, because they are designed for style and not necessarily for strength, like a road bike or MTB.

Everything you do is at your own risk, and I think you would be astounded to find out how many of the products you use every day come from China. Japan has gotten hit so hard, China has really put a lot of effort into making stuff worth buying. My Razor dirt bike is tougher and faster than a real CRF50 and it contains almost all Chinese parts except for the intake scoop that's off a Mercedes, lol.

My opinions on Chinese products have changed completely, you just need to know what you're getting, and not expect the world from items that you were able to get at 50% or less than from Europe, Japan, or North America. Their spec sheets for electronics are horrible at best.

In reality, for bikes and scooters and stuff, you don't need GP bike technology, and there are plenty of CHinese frames that have the engineered SHAPE that is proper for optimal strength and fatigue resistance (flex minimized).

Just use your head, inspect welds, try to find evidence to tube thickness at brake line cutouts, and you will be fine as long as you're not dirt jumping under motive power with flat landings. Overbuild it and make more engine power to compensate, its the safe route.

 

[fatdaddy]

I think Chinese stuff is perfectly acceptable in quality as long as you pick and chose major name brands and use them appropriately.

Taking a $89 bike and motorizing it contains inherent risks. Metal fatigue at weld joints on cruisers is a biggie, because they are designed for style and not necessarily for strength, like a road bike or MTB.

Everything you do is at your own risk, and I think you would be astounded to find out how many of the products you use every day come from China. Japan has gotten hit so hard, China has really put a lot of effort into making stuff worth buying. My Razor dirt bike is tougher and faster than a real CRF50 and it contains almost all Chinese parts except for the intake scoop that's off a Mercedes, lol.

My opinions on Chinese products have changed completely, you just need to know what you're getting, and not expect the world from items that you were able to get at 50% or less than from Europe, Japan, or North America. Their spec sheets for electronics are horrible at best.

In reality, for bikes and scooters and stuff, you don't need GP bike technology, and there are plenty of CHinese frames that have the engineered SHAPE that is proper for optimal strength and fatigue resistance (flex minimized).

Just use your head, inspect welds, try to find evidence to tube thickness at brake line cutouts, and you will be fine as long as you're not dirt jumping under motive power with flat landings. Overbuild it and make more engine power to compensate, its the safe route.

I agree 100%
fatdaddy.

 

[Mike B]

This is 95% Chinese.

All bought off the internet sight unseen.

The basket is the only USA made part.

It Rocks!

 

[bigbutterbean]

I think Chinese stuff is perfectly acceptable in quality as long as you pick and chose major name brands and use them appropriately.

Taking a $89 bike and motorizing it contains inherent risks. Metal fatigue at weld joints on cruisers is a biggie, because they are designed for style and not necessarily for strength, like a road bike or MTB.

Everything you do is at your own risk, and I think you would be astounded to find out how many of the products you use every day come from China. Japan has gotten hit so hard, China has really put a lot of effort into making stuff worth buying. My Razor dirt bike is tougher and faster than a real CRF50 and it contains almost all Chinese parts except for the intake scoop that's off a Mercedes, lol.

My opinions on Chinese products have changed completely, you just need to know what you're getting, and not expect the world from items that you were able to get at 50% or less than from Europe, Japan, or North America. Their spec sheets for electronics are horrible at best.

In reality, for bikes and scooters and stuff, you don't need GP bike technology, and there are plenty of CHinese frames that have the engineered SHAPE that is proper for optimal strength and fatigue resistance (flex minimized).

Just use your head, inspect welds, try to find evidence to tube thickness at brake line cutouts, and you will be fine as long as you're not dirt jumping under motive power with flat landings. Overbuild it and make more engine power to compensate, its the safe route.

I also agree, and thats why I'm not cheaping out on my 98cc build. I'm trying my very best to get quality, reliable parts, the vast majority of which are more than adequate for the bike I'm building.

 

[KCvale]

Taking a $89 bike and motorizing it contains inherent risks...
Just use your head, inspect welds, try to find evidence to tube thickness at brake line cutouts, and you will be fine as long as you're not dirt jumping under motive power with flat landings. Overbuild it and make more engine power to compensate, its the safe route.

My point entirely.
If you set an initial baseline for acceptable budget quality you can go better on the next one until the budget gives out and still have a solid bike to resale and not a pile of virtually useless metal like I see too many of come in here for repairs that simply just are not worth even trying to fix.

When I get e-mail ads with $500 off a single bike price coupon because I visited their site I just have to laugh, that is Car rebate money but for a frigg'n pedal bicycle that starts at like $3,750 and go up to like $8,000!

I really enjoy high end builds but that is just an insane priced bike base I think, even with a $500 coupon ;-}

 

[bigbutterbean]

If you want real long-term reliability, why cheap out on an ht kit? We all know that even if an ht engine never breaks down once until the engine completely dies, it will never outlast a 4 stroke. And with the amount of money that you'll spend replacing ht engines, you could have got a 4 stroke that will last you much longer than the 4 or 5 ht engines you replaced along the way. I understand the budget issue, I have run an ht engine myself for several years. But I'm not dumping any more money into ht's. HT engines can be reliable for as long as they can stay running, but they dont last as long as the 4 strokes do.

 

[fatdaddy]

Most 4 stroke kits are $350 to $450, depending where you get it. And yeah, It probably will outlast a 2 stroke. But I can rebuild my 2 smoker for about $40 and get another 3 or 4 years out of it. I realize a lot of MB riders can't tear down an engine and actually put it back together, (the right way.) But with proper maintenence ANY engine, 2 or 4 stroke, is gonna last a lot longer. And I have enough new and used parts in my shop to do a rebuild in an afternoon. I think most 4 strokes, if anything does go wrong, are a little harder to rebuild. I've done a few and found that getting some parts can be a PITA. If the price ever comes down on 4 stroke kits I think a lot more people are gonna be buying them. I did find a pretty good price on them but the ad says, "unavailable to USA." Don't understand why not, especially for the 4 strokes because you can ship a 4 stroke even to California.
http://speeddemon.ca/motorized-bicycles/sub-cat-2/motoized-bike-kit-49cc-4-stroke.html
fatdaddy.

 

[bigbutterbean]

He is a Canadian vendor. Most of them avoid shipping to the U.S because of customs and the fact that it costs a lot more to ship from CAN to USA, and also takes awhile. There was a kit for sale from BGF on ebay for under $300, but either the price went up or they dont have them anymore. You are right, an engine will last longer with proper maintenance, and the ht engines are cheaper/easier to rebuild, provided that multiple things dont keep going wrong. But when you have a chain here, a mag coil there (or 4 of them on one engine in my case), and various other parts continue needing replaced, at some point it becomes a money pit. The 2 stroke kits also require a lot of time spent maintaining them compared to their 4 stroke counterparts. My first engine ran great for a year. The rings went because I had been using marine oil, but until that engine died the only thing I had to do with it was tighten the head bolts and change flat tires. I had 2 engines after that that didnt last that long. My current engine lasted a year and a half, and blew after I installed a high compression head. Now I realize thats aftermarket and not stock, but I know I can spend a little bit more to build a 4 stroke with high-quality parts that wont break down all the time, and it will also require less maintenance. Maybe I just dont know enough to properly maintain an ht engine to a more reliable degree, but the fact remains with the ht engines that they arent all made exactly the same, they dont all run the same, and they dont all last the same. with a 4 stroke, even if you only perform basic maintenance and dont beat the tar out of it, you have a much better chance of it lasting. And its not because the ht's are made in china that we automatically write them off. Its where they are made (the factories) and who makes them (unskilled laborers). I did enjoy my first kit very much, and I wish I could say that I feel the ht's are as reliable as a 4 stroke. But after going through 4 engines in 3 years, I unfortunately cannot say that I feel that way. The ht kits do start out being economical, and if you get lucky enough to have one last a good while without a lot of problems, thats a dream come true. Its just not the case for me anymore.

 

[fatdaddy]

Then I guess I've just been the luckiest dude in the world. The only time I ever had to buy a new engine is when I sold the old one. Maybe I sold it "just in time" Who knows. (I didn't ever get it back for repair.)
fatdaddy.

 

[bigbutterbean]

There are a few members who do say that their ht engines last years. I would venture to guess that a few things are common among those of you who have long engine life. One, you use really good oil. Two, you dont take very many long distance (100mi+) rides. Three, you take the engine apart, inspect it, put it back together, and go over the entire bike checking for potential problems and doing your best to alleviate them before using the bike as a daily driver. The 3rd is something that everyone should do, but I think that most of those who get longer engine life are a bit older than the rest of us. With age comes experience, and with experience comes wisdom. You guys know by now a lot better than the rest of us what to look for and how to best alleviate those potential problems. Now to clarify, I mean none of this as disrespectful. These are all compliments. But I would wager that these are the most common reasons that you guys are more successful than the majority of the younger builders with your engine life. I just dont want to keep spending money in hopes that one day I will learn the secrets. I just want to build something now that will last for me. Call it a shortcut if you will, I take no offense to it and in fact think of it that way myself.

 

[Venice Motor Bikes]

I have seen ZERO proof that 4-strokes are any more (or less) dependable than the 2-strokes.

 

[moonerdizzle]

I have seen ZERO proof that 4-strokes are any more (or less) dependable than the 2-strokes.

compair a two stroke dirt bike to a four stroke dirtbike, the two stroke will need to be rebuilt 2-3 times before the four stroke will need to be rebuilt, two strokes by their nature wear more than a four stroke.

 

[Venice Motor Bikes]

I'm talking about the engines that you get in the bicycle engine kits.

 

[moonerdizzle]

well, you have a cheap quality two stroke motor, poor to no quality control, compaired to a honda clone, that has been proven to 10xxx miles plus, you can get alot of miles out of a HT smoker. But the four stroke has it beat by not having to worry about parts failing as much. you always see problems with smokers, but the only problems you really see with the four stroke kits are snapped con-rods from over revving, and recoil problems. Hoot gearboxs are another can of worms, but since there is better options than them they dont really count.

 

[fatdaddy]

Everybody rides what they like. I guess I'll say it again.
IT'S YOUR BIKE, BUILD IT YOUR WAY.
I can't say if a 4 stroke lasts longer or not. I never owned one and don't want to. First off, the kits only come with a 49cc engine. That wont get my fat A** off the line. And the only way to get a bigger engine for one is to peice a kit together. If I had THAT much time on my hands I'd learn to play the piano (or something) instead. When a 4 stroke comes out with a 66cc kit I'll think about it. Untill then I've just got too much to do already, and not enough money to do it with as it is. I guess I could go 4 stroke friction, but I think I'd rather jab a sharp stick in my eye.
fatdaddy.

 

[moonerdizzle]

four stroke put out more torque at a lower rpm than the two stroke kits. my four stroke is alot faster than my two stroke. two strokes will beat mine off the line but once you get rolling its all over with, they cant keep up. and my bike is weighing in at close to 100 pounds now with the new tank on it.

 

[bigbutterbean]

I have seen ZERO proof that 4-strokes are any more (or less) dependable than the 2-strokes.

REALLY? How many 4 strokes blow through mags, cdi's, piston rings, cylinders, oil seals, crankshafts/bearings/rods? How many ht engines have 10,000+ low maintenance miles on them?

 

[Venice Motor Bikes]

I see problems with both 4-strokes & 2-strokes EVERYDAY in my shop.
How many different bikes have you personally built?? (Or do you just read about them here)?