Mongo, 48v 1000w 'Magic Pie' hub on a Mongoose 'Snarl'

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zabac70

New Member
Mar 17, 2010
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Belgrade , Serbia
One little note : when you search the net for something (for research purposes) , try to change preferences in your browser to other country (not USA) and cross mach that search with search engine set to "pictures only"...You'll be amazed with stuff you can find that way. I've made experiment regarding that , using mu friend's lap top with EU internet connection (via mobile phone) and got totally different results for the exact same search (some results were the same, but waaaay down on the page 9 of the search results).
 

BarelyAWake

New Member
Jul 21, 2009
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Well, I s'pose it's well past time for an update on the Mongo machine as I've managed to rack up somewhere between 2000 & 2500 miles already (based on weekly average). Honestly, the ongoing maintenance this thing demands is ridiculous, the list of things I've had to get so far is...

...one replacement tube and a can of chain wax lol



I am gonna need new brake pads pretty soon, there goes $15... might think about a new rear tire at some point... geez, this thing is freakin' killin' me heh

 
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paul

Well-Known Member
Dec 23, 2007
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Kalamazoo, MI
i am on my 3rd bicycle tube lol. i have had more flats with my car and bikes since moving here then i have had in all my driving put together. the magic pie has been a great motor and a lot of fun. just plug and go.
 

Mike B

New Member
Mar 23, 2011
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Central CA
Yeah, zero maintainence thanks to zero vibration.

I just love the Bullseye. Twenty nine as smooth as silk. No sounds except the rush of the wind, clicking of the freewheel and the gentle low whine of the motor.
 

BarelyAWake

New Member
Jul 21, 2009
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Well... not quite "zero" maintenance, but pretty close lol

I was about fifteen miles from home & my thumb throttle started to develop behaviors of a sort, kinda doing it's own thing instead of what I asked of it - I'd push it & nothing at all would happen, I'd push it and it'd go but not stop, or it'd go after a moment spent considering life, the universe & everything... or w/e the heck an electronic thumb throttle muses about when it's supposed to do something but doesn't.

Sounds dangerous to be subject to the whim of a rebellious, even schizophrenic throttle - but not really, the regen brake switch overrides the throttle input so I had the final say regardless heh

After a mo spent trying to figure out what was goin' on, it became clear that the reason it wouldn't go (my biggest concern on the roadside, miles from home) was that it was never quite turning off - so when at a stop the hub would shut down to protect itself from these conflicting inputs (at stop but under load). Easy enough workaround however - just keep the regen switch engaged & pedal start, once rolling - release regen & go :D

After I got home I cracked open the throttle to see just what was goin' on with the thing & it turns out the tiny little tabs that hold the sender/sensor in place were just gone & it was flopping about in there, just doin' whatever it pleased.

I have no idea how it's mount tabs got sheered off, they were nowhere to be found & the thumb throttle itself has a stop to prevent exactly that and it wasn't bent, broken or damaged in any way...

Yea... weird but w/e - a touch of 5 minute epoxy & a squeeze clamp fixed it right up FTW ;)




 

paul

Well-Known Member
Dec 23, 2007
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Kalamazoo, MI
glad you got it fixed. good thinking on how to get home ba. i would still be sitting thier thinking up new curse words lol.
 

BarelyAWake

New Member
Jul 21, 2009
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Maine
Whadda ya talkin' about Paul? Yer island is only 10mi across, you've pedals and I suspect we both spend quite a bit of time trying to think up new curse words jus' for the heck of it lol ...besides, it still worked, it just wanted to expand it's horizons & express itself a bit heh



Well... despite my intent, my plan to just use this as a temporary test platform for a weekend or two - it's now fall, the temperature is starting to plummet and somehow about three thousand miles have rolled past already, a coupla thou less than my usual summer average due to the limitations of an ebike it's true, but still enough to have gotten me from coast to coast with the only issues encountered being the wonky throttle above, one flat tire & having to remember to periodically lube the chain & cables...

...not too shabby considering I only threw this thing together on a whim lol

So the time has come to strip it down & stick a two smoker in there, to make it the winter beater commuter the Mongoose was meant to be... right?

...right?

...

Um... right?

Maybe not lol - after much deliberation, and I do mean a lot of arguing with myself I've decided what the heck, might as well kick it to a whole new level of testing and abuse, to leave it as is and actually try and use an ebike in some of the worst conditions for such imaginable - a Maine winter with it's sub-zero temperatures and worse yet, a near constant immersion in the devil's brew of rock salt and calcium chloride we use on the roads around here.

Bad enough on it's own, but take an aluminum frame & add a high electric current to the already existing issues of galvanic electrolysis and dissimilar metal corrosion and it's a recipe for an electrochemical bath of doom... certain death for the humble ebike right?

Maybe... probably... almost certainly actually...

...then again there's only one way to find out lol and TBH, much as I do like the in-frame two smokers I just don't feel like building another. I figure I've gotten my money's worth outa this hub & the batteries are where the investment is in any case, they should be well protected & safe from harm tucked away in the panniers - or at least I hope so lol

So I've gone ahead and ordered a buncha toys to "winterize" Mongo, some knobby tires to replace the semi-slicks & no, they're not studded - I've found lotsa lil but tall lugs works well enough in the ice & snow to make the $100+ investment in studded bicycle tires not really worth it, nor the effort of making my own. Some fenders that may not look as "cool" as the 'Topeak Defender' fenders that are on it now - but while I think the Topeaks defo look sweet, they don't actually work very well save to keep just some of the crap outa my face, for winter use I need a bit more, so I got the kinda dorky but very effective mud flaps as well.

I've gotten a set of replacement panniers too - Mongo has been runnin' around with the batteries in a set of M-Wave Double Day Tripper panniers, but I've really been less than impressed with them overall. They're a lil smaller than I expected when I got 'em but that's not the issue - the problem I have w/them is they're already falling apart... tho I s'pose "already" is comparative considering the mileage, price & use lol - w/e the case may be I need new ones so I'm gonna give the Avenirs below a whirl. Other'n the usual use for panniers, groceries, tools and w/e else eventually accumulates in what are essentially "guy purses" (laugh - it's true), mine not only need to hold & support the batteries, for winter use I'll need to create some sorta smash guard for the batteries, to protect them from the inevitable impact & slide damage - riding in the winter isn't a case of "if" but when ya crash lol *shrug* happens, hopefully not too frequently heh

Though it may well prove to be a can of wishful thinking, I grabbed some marine grade anti-corrosive for both the electrical connections & general surface use. The stuff actually works pretty dang good for it's intended use (salt water boating) so I'm hoping it'll help stave off the worst of the corrosive effects. I'll need some di-electric grease gloop gobbed here & there, but I've already got some somewhere in my shop... I think, if not the hardware store will help me out I'm sure.

...and I finally ordered a center stand, which is not really part of the winterization list so much as jus' a dealie-yo I've kept forgetting to order since I built the silly thing *shrug* Side (kick) stand or center - neither one works very well in ice & snow, but kick stands don't work very well at all w/such a competitively heavy, tall bike as this lol, we'll skip right over how long I've spaced getting one or why heh;

Kenda K837 Dart Tire 26" x 2.10" Wire Black Wall
Kenda K816 Aggressive MTB Tire, 26" x 2.10" Black Wall;


Planet Bike Mud Flap Set for ATB Fenders
Planet Bike Full ATB Front and Rear Bicycle Fender Set (60mm Wide);


Avenir Metro III Panniers (2, 165 ci);


CRC Industries 06026 Corrosion Inhibitor;


Acclaim Double Black Kickstand;


...and now I wait for the blasted brown truck again as I sit and wonder still - am I blithely consigning my trusty steed to a horrible, untimely death... or can an ebike manage a malicious Maine winter?

I guess we'll see...
 

paul

Well-Known Member
Dec 23, 2007
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Kalamazoo, MI
i am gonna be real interested to see how the magic pie and the lifepo4 batteries do in a Maine winter environment. they say the lifepo4 batteries are not affected by the cold however i find that hard to believe. i lived many years in northern Maine's arrostic county where my wife is from and it was cold and made michigan winters look like an arrostic county spring. winter is coming here and i think mine will do fine in low 80's temperatures. i know it does fine in the high 80's lol. i honestly believe you will be putting the bike the motor and electronics thru the harshest environment possible and i cannot wait to see how the mongo does. i know so far i am very impressed. i got you beat on flats though ba. i just had number 5 on the bike and number 2 on the car this year.
 

silverbear

The Boy Who Never Grew Up
Jul 9, 2009
8,325
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northeastern Minnesota
Ah, the drama of it all! I wish you luck, sir. Years ago I rode a gas motored Schwinn through just part of a northern Minnesota winter and can attest is ain't for sissies. And it did a number on chrome, chains, etc. Worst for me was the penetrating cold. I'll ride around in my Jeep with a heater this winter and think about you and your bold adventure. You can have it. Just don't get hurt, my friend. It is so easy to wipe out in slush or on ice with a dusting of fresh powder on top. Ask me how I know this. Ha!
SB
 

Mike B

New Member
Mar 23, 2011
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Central CA
Good luck!

You are more brave than I.

I remember trying that when I was a kid back in MI on a bright sunny winter day. The front wheel hit a slick patch on a turn (and I was going slow and careful too) slid out and down I went.

That's enough of that thought I.
 

BarelyAWake

New Member
Jul 21, 2009
7,194
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Maine
i got you beat on flats though ba...
I misread this as "I got you beat on the flats" and thought to myself "Oh yea? The race is on b'dangit!" ...then realized you were talking about flat tires... and the fact you are actually 1mph faster than me with your MP3 vs my ol' MP2 >.<

Ah well, at least I don't live in a tropical paradi... dangitall I'm done rotfl



Thanks for your concern & well wishes silver & Mike! I'll not even attempt to deny the dangers of winter riding (I do after all crash at least once per winter lol), on the other hand, it isn't as bad as all that - it takes a bit to acclimatize, to adjust the riding style to account for road conditions but once used to it it's really more fun than anything else.

Sure, the icy slick patches & slush lay in wait for the unwary - but so do wet leaves & sand in any other season. The only difference is frequency. In a way the ice & snow is less treacherous as it's constant, you know it's everywhere, on every turn & tryin' to getcha whereas the sandy turn waits to ambush, the wet leaves sneaky, seemingly innocuous - until they slide yer tires out from under ya and yer laying there wondering what the heck happened lol

The cold is... well cold it's true - but I've found that with a decent pair of supple leather gloves and just my rain gear over my normal winter clothing for the longer rides suffices *shrug* I don't tend to go on my long "wanderabouts" in the winter but I'll say I'd far, far rather ride in the snow than rain no matter the temperature.

At this stage of the game (gray, wet fall) I'd just as soon it froze up & snowed than deal with this wet & sloppy, damp & dreary anymore lol

B'sides, it's Maine... if I didn't ride in the winter, I'd hardly get to ride at all :p
 

BarelyAWake

New Member
Jul 21, 2009
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Maine
Well, I s'pose it shouldn't be a surprise... but after putting the new knobblies, fenders & center stand on, gobbed a lil dielectric grease on the connectors & sprayed anti corrosive all o'er the place w/abandon...

...I'm filled with meh

Granted, everything did exactly as it was supposed to & TBH I'm loving this center stand... but after I hunted down some puddles to play in, tearing down some trails covered in wet pine needles, leaves & muck & then going for about a 20 mile ride I can safely say the fenders & tires both also do their jobs really well - but I also really miss my "old" bike already.

On clean, dry pavement - the tires howl like banshees, once rolling at speed they drown out the sound of the electric motor completely, the occasional pebble picked up ricocheting up & under the fenders like a sudden gunshot out of nowhere. I've lost 1.5mph overall and the turns are made of marshmallows. Then there's also the oddity that for some reason I really liked how it looked with dirt fenders & street tires, but street fenders & dirt tires? More meh... it's just plain weird lol

Whatever, it's not about looks and "clean, dry pavement" will all too soon become just myth told while huddled around the woodstove, a tale to tease as we bundle up for the blizzards. Much as I may be disgruntled now I think that'll change quickly enough once they're needed. Even during yesterday's run, after blasting through some puddled mud & muck, I looked down with satisfaction at my dry shoes, my clean pants, knowing had I tried that same turn with the street slicks I'd have been face down in the puckerbrush, my bike in a heap a little further down the trail.

...I just may put the semislicks back on in the meantime though lol

Anyhoo, ya may have noticed I didn't change out the panniers. While I did order new ones, they arrived & were as advertised - I don't like 'em. They're a touch too small & worse yet, they're even a lighter weave then the ones I've worn & torn up already. So, as I've managed to thrash the ones I've had in one short summer - these haven't a prayer of lasting the winter.

It's also interesting to note that "saddlebags" made for motorcycles & even horses are quick to offer the exact dimensions... length, width, height? No problem - but as soon as it's for a bicycle, all of the sudden it's "panniers" and cubic inches, never you mind what shape & size it may actually prove to be lol, so that's on hold as I hunt around for something a touch more durable, something that actually mentions measurements, something like these perhaps as they're cheap enough at a whopping $25 (some modification necessary ofc);

Tough-1 Canvas Saddle Bag


There's a plethora of inexpensive leather or canvas saddlebags for both motorcycles & horses BTW, while they'll not fit a bicycle properly w/o some stitchwork & cheap is ofc cheap - I for one may well be done with bicycle "panniers" and their shenanigans lol, I s'pose we'll see.

 
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paul

Well-Known Member
Dec 23, 2007
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Kalamazoo, MI
i like the leather look bags ba. as for the canvas wearing out i am having the same problem. i bought some gorilla tape which is a really thick strong duck tape and lined the inside of my bag with it. so far i am very impressed. the stuff is strong to say the least and after a lot of miles since i lined the bag the tape dosn't even have a scratch on it. it looks the same as the day i lined the bag with it and it sticks to the canvas really well. even if i get a new bag i will probably line it like i did this one. i really like the bags you posted the picture of.
 

BarelyAWake

New Member
Jul 21, 2009
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Maine
Agreed Paul - but as it turns out they're not very well suited for the all-weather riding I need them for, while a nice heavy canvas they don't close up very well, their tops just flaps at best. They (the Tough-1s) also just happen to fit my taddy just about perfectly - so I decided to use the nylon Avenir Metro III Panniers on the ebike instead.

While the nylon of the Aveniers is disappointingly light - all of the seams are tightly double stitched, all the zippers & pockets well protected from water intrusion with a secondary cover flap. After hanging them outside & saturating them thoroughly with water repellent (particularly the hard to reach under sides), I decided to mount the batteries on top of the rear rack although I prefer the weight lower down, in the panniers themselves if possible.

This was a tough choice for me - I don't particularly like the feel of an additional 16lbs that high up & when riding on ice & snow, weight & balance becomes even more critical... but the fact is no matter how well the bike may be balanced, I will doubtlessly take a spill and it's simply far easier to protect my battery investment if they're up on top of the rack instead of out on the sides, to hit the ground and slide. Even with just my normal cargo - my small tool kit, bike lock & thermos in one pannier and my duffel (for transporting larger stuff) folded up in the other, the panniers are full enough that they're wider than the batteries are on the rack - so I needn't even do anything special to protect the batteries from impact damage.

So... good enough I figure... or at least hope heh

All decked out & ready for winter - I'd just washed it the day before believe it or not lol but hadn't quite finished the lighting (thus the unsightly wires);



As it gets dark sooner & stays that way longer in the blasted winter wasteland, lighting becomes no longer just an accessory but a critical necessity. I've lighting on all my builds ofc, but as Mongo was just a "temporary" experiment I'd never refined it's wiring - particularly the switch for the 48 to 12v converter, which also served as the only way to turn on & off the (12v) lights. Hidden away, stuffed deep in a nest of wires this worked well enough for the occasional night ride, but it was a pain.

Given I had to completely redo all of the wiring anyway to change out the panniers & due to the relocation of the batteries - I finally got around to adding a switch for just the lighting, a minor thing to be sure but another I'd put off for too long lol - note, the corrosion & tattered paint on the rack clamp isn't new, I'd "recycled" that rack from my poor, whipped Schwinn which had thousands of winter miles on it;

 

paul

Well-Known Member
Dec 23, 2007
5,547
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Kalamazoo, MI
strange on mine the seams held up well it was the bottom and sides that were deteriorating. so far the gorilla tape lining is helping alot. eventually i will need to get a new bag. how far a ride is it to work that you will be riding this winter? be nice if you could get some kind of wind breaker on the front of the bike
 

paul

Well-Known Member
Dec 23, 2007
5,547
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Kalamazoo, MI
this may seem off the wall or stupid however i thought about doing this in maine on my regular bicycle and michigan with my motorized bicycle. outriggers that you can bolt on and off real quick attached to the rear wheel. kinda like training wheels however with small skis. that way you would have a little extra time to recover from a slide. not sure if it would work but a possibility. just attach them when weather requires it and take them off when not needed.
 

BarelyAWake

New Member
Jul 21, 2009
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Maine
Oh but I already have just exactly that Paul - nothin' like a pair of size 13w clodhoppers in some honkin' winter boots for a lil "outrigger" action when things get hairy & speakin' of - my "crazed hermit beard" works pretty well as a fairing/windbreaker, particularly after it ices up rotfl
 
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paul

Well-Known Member
Dec 23, 2007
5,547
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Kalamazoo, MI
i forgot all about giant mukluks and mickey mouse boots. they would be great for that. only thing i own these days are sandals lol