Considering going with an eBike kit

I've not built my MB yet, but I'd ask your uni. Does the uni have cars there? Do people ride motorcycles? maybe you mean on campus though...

Anyways I started getting interested in the e part due to calif laws, but I'm planning to do gas, then add e motor in front to accelerate quickly, then cruise 20-30 with the motor. I'd never want to deal with the cost of expensive batteries to eBike around for a bit and charging, running a small battery + small engine driving alternator sounds noice.

Just throwing out an idea.

There's a vast almost dizzying selection of easy & simple hub kits - generally speaking they're the most straightforward & economical method of converting a bicycle to an electric drive... as with anything there's compromises to be made and with ebikes it's usually speed vs range, fast or far - take your pick lol but your "30mph" isn't unreasonable however, even the inexpensive 48v/1000w hub kits are usually capable of a sustained, flat ground 26+mph...

...the "catch" is with electric vehicles, the really important investment is in the battery packs - and they are an "investment" in every way. Should you choose wisely, spend the money up front and get a quality LiFePO4 pack with the most amp hours (= range) you can afford, effectively you won't "need to replace batteries" and there is no "cost of upkeep", maintenance or other concerns (like fade or charge memory) and you will most likely be quite well satisfied with your ebike. LiFePO4's usually have from 1000 - 2000 complete charge cycles (slowly tapering off in efficiency/capacity after that) - so even if you fully discharged your pack every day w/the minimum of 1000 cycles, seven days a week (which is unlikely but still OK as they're protected by a Battery Management System), that'd be almost three years of 100% service. They'd continue to function after that ofc, just at a reduced percentage.

There are alternatives (quite a few actually), but again there's compromises to be made - Li-Ion (Lithium Ion) batteries for example are also common & somewhat less expensive than Lithium iron Phosphate (LiFePO4) - but they haven't the thermal and chemical stability of LiFePO4 and tend to have slightly reduced cycle life (500-1000) in comparison to LiFePO4.

To be completely honest, I believe the vast amount of the disappointment some have mentioned regarding electric vehicles can be placed solely on the decision to attempt to save money and use SLA (sealed lead acid) or any variant of lead acid batteries instead - simply put I believe this to be a false economy measure as lead acid batteries tend to be at least twice the weight and a third larger than an equivalent alternative with only 500-800 charge cycles, best case scenario. This vastly reduced energy density, efficiency & short cycle life takes a major toll on the overall preformance of any electric vehicle - "every ounce counts" cannot be overstated with electrics.

You can save a few bucks/get more amp hours for your money by purchasing what's affectionately known as "duct tape packs" BTW (tho these days they're shrink wrapped instead) - they're battery packs assembled specifically for your needs but lacking the shiny case the kits often offer. While you'll need to figure out your own mounting system and/or purchase your own case separately, this inconvenience is offset by lessened cost/increased preformance over the kit batteries and the customization options, such as a single pack split into duals (ability to mount in panniers w/lower weight & balance) and/or the BMS & discharge current/amperage tailored to your specific needs & application etc.




Reference material: Table of rechargeable battery types

Disclaimer: TBH I still consider myself an ebike novice, the above based only on what R&D I've done for my own projects - forgive any discrepancies please

i debated about 4 years on getting an electric kit. cost was of course a factor and i finnally broke down and got one this year. worth every penny. flat ground i can do 28mph. no maintenance or modifications to do. reliable fun transportation. i cannot wait to get off work and go for another ride. most do not even know it is a motorized bicycle unless i am going fast and not pedaling. i try to pedal just for the exercise. yesterday i had a guy ask me how high i had it geared that i was going pretty fast and hardly pedaling. i told him it was electric and he was amazed. most times i am not really pedaling my legs are just going around in circles with no resistance lol

Golden Motor advertises here.

Ping - http://www.pingbattery.com/servlet/StoreFront

Keblic said:

BarelyAWake,

Thanks for the great information! What are some LiFePO4 batteries you would specifically suggest? Do you maybe have a link to a reliable site?

I probably wanted to buy a kit as opposed to building one myself from scratch.. Maybe you (or anyone for that matter) have a link to a good kit with this type of battery?

Thanks,
Keblic

Click to expand...

NP Keblic, as Mike B mentioned, http://www.pingbattery.com or http://stores.ebay.com/PingBattery is a highly recommended source for LiFePO4 packs... the only differences between getting a kit with or without an included battery is deciding where/how to mount a non-kit battery and a two wire plug as the power supply plug may not match the motor controller's... but that's simple enough as it's red to red, black to black.

Which battery to choose (voltage & amp hours) depends on which motor you decide on (voltage) and your budget - but I would recommend a 48v 1000w rear hub kit for your stated interests with the 48v LiFePO4 pack that has the most amp hours you can afford, 10ah would be the minimum suggested - I've a 15ah from Ping (split into duals, pics below & the charger is included), I get about 30 miles range with my 48v 1000w 'Magic Pie' hub & 15ah LiFePO4 at maximum consumption (full throttle, no pedal assist, hilly stop & go).

Ping 48v 15ah pack split into duals w/included BMS (battery management system) and 2a charger;


MP hub w/battery packs in panniers (a lil sloppily I'll admit lol);


A glimpse under a LiFePO4 pack's shrink wrap (not my pic/battery);


As you can see, they're not particularly complex so should an individual cell ever fail (the BMS will tell you and which one) they're easily replaced and/or for the DIYer that is interested in building their own custom packs - cells, BMS systems & many other components are readily available through outlets such as this one: http://www.bmsbattery.com/

& jus' because I'm a sucker for flashy lights n'stuff - a quick vid of the BMS in action, cross checking & balancing the 16 individual cells (click to view);

Electric Bicycle Links

Electric bike information
http://www.electric-bikes.com/ - Great source of Electric Bike information, solutions and kits.
http://www.bicycle-power.com/ - "The hub of power assist"
http://www.electricbikesexperts.co.uk/ - UK oriented site with good e-bike information.
http://www.electricbikee.com/ electric bike news, reviews and information.
http://www.electric-bicycle-guide.com/index.html - It's not about replacing pedaling, it's about enhancing cycling

Electric Bike parts - trusted suppliers
http://www.emissions-free.com/ - Custom A123 battery packs, motors, kits.
http://www.ebikes.ca/ - Cycle analyst, hub motors, batteries
http://www.ebikessf.com/ - ebike motors, parts, batteries
http://www.hobbyking.com/- Good source of LiPo batteries
http://www.lyen.com/- Custom controllers and ebike electronics
http://www.pingbattery.com/servlet/StoreFront- Chinese LiFePO4 "duct tape" batteries
http://www.recumpence.net/ - High end electric drive systems

Ebikes and parts
http://www.ampedbikes.com/- E-bike conversion kits
http://www.bionx.ca/ - Integrated hub motor system
http://www.bmsbattery.com/- ebike kits, motors, batteries. Good stuff, slow service, expensive shipping.
http://www.chicagoelectricbicycles.com/- ebike kits and assembled in USA LiFePo4 batteries
http://www.comcycle-usa.com/ - Ebike parts like BMC hub motors, and normal bike stuff too.
http://www.cyclone-usa.com/- Brushless motor kits
http://www.cyclone-tw.com/newkits.htm
http://www.cycle9.com/ - ebike kits
http://www.ecospeed.com/ - Electric mid drive kits for recumbent and mountain bikes
http://www.electricbikesales.co.uk/
http://www.electricrider.com/ - Crystalyte hub motors & ebikes
http://www.electroportal.com/ - ebikes and kits
http://www.evdeals.com/ - electric bikes and parts
http://www.texaselectricbikes.com/ - Electric bike and e-bike parts
http://www.forsenusa.com/batteries.html - Electric bikes / parts / batteries
http://www.50cycles.com/ - UK Based e-bike company with Casco e-bike helmets.
http://www.bikeengines.com/ - Gas assist, but they make a cool belt drive ring.
http://www.goasisenergy.com/lifepo4_battery - Nice LiFePo4 batteries shipped from USA
http://www.hightekbikes.com/ - LiFePo4 batteries and motor kits.
http://www.kennedyalternativeenergy.com/- Headway LiFePo4 batts.
http://www.iloveebikes.com/
http://www.maxamps.com/- Batteries & RC parts
http://www.powerwerx.com/ - Anderson connectors, wires and other high power products.
http://www.thesuperkids.com/ - E-bikes, parts and accessories.

full list can be found here....
http://www.recumbents.com/wisil/e-bent/default.htm.xx.

http://www.conhismotor.com/ In case you need a rear wheel chopper kit you might check here

kevyleven007 said:

dont forget www.conhismotor.com/

Click to expand...

HAHA I don't really know anything about electric bikes so I am reading up. I went to this website and the first paragraph says this:

"With our talented engineers, power wheelchair experts, DC motor and electronics controller designers, experienced assembly workforce, we are cheap replica handbags confident to provide our valuable customers with top quality products and services at the lowest possible cost. "

I get that English is a second language, but what I don't understand is why did they actually link these words to another website, that has handbags??? (cheapgoodbag.com)

looks like someone hacked into their website to me. not sure though. really weird though

There's a whole buncha info on this thread and I can't add to it except in general terms.

Electric bikes are nice. I have one and I like it. But it has limits and it's not an effective long range, mid-to-heavy load vehicle.

The faster you go, the more juice you use up. This is obvious. But the curve is a lot more steep than I would have guessed.

You can have speed for (effectively) a few miles. Or you can have a lot more range at quite low speed (maybe averaging 10 mph). You can improve both, but now you gotta start coughing up some real money.

You can't get an electric two-wheeler that's anything more than a child's toy for the price of a 2 stroke china girl kit. You can get a bike that is capable of commuting an adult who is not heavy plus work or school items for maybe 10 miles (effectively) for about the cost of a decent 4 stroke bike kit. (individual results will vary. but not by a whole lot)

To get something that'll give you more performance than that, you are getting into 'four-figure' cost territory.

This is not to say 'don't do it'. E-bikes are pretty cool. I often commute to work (6 miles one way. Varying elevation) on mine. It's a roughly $500 machine. My wife and daughter also use it pretty successfully. But I have to keep it down to about 10 mph average and I'd become nervous if my commute was any longer. Plus I'll no doubt have to replace my SLAs one of these days. But they are nearing their 3rd birthday sometime within the next two weeks. That's not too bad.

You can push the limits of these bikes back, ie; more speed and range. But it takes money.

Yup, to get good performance you need to spend a grand. That will get you 20-30 mph and a 30 mile range.

But if that was not possible, I wouldn't have built an ebike in the first place.

Yeah, I was quite surprised how expensive everything gets and you start designing all the little odds and ends.

But like with all my projects I have a 3 stage budget..
What I wish I could spend (usually about 50% of what it takes)
What I am willing to spend (the budget amount calculations to start the project)
And then the final cost (usually 20% more than my budget)

lol

plan on spending about $1000.after its all said and done.if you are me,that is.it is worth it.turns out I spent a lot less than I thought I would.48v16ah got about 40 miles at 20mph(can ride to work and back for about 3 weeks before charging)man I love these things!They blow gas motors away!freekin lawn mower wannabees suck(I got 3 of them)

I just wanted to add my input and my experience to this post. I started riding my e-bike in April 2012. Wanted to save some gas money and also, I missed motorcycling. Riding motorcycles in LA is nuts man. So, I opted for the next best thing, e-bike. There is a bike path that runs 2/3 way from my house to work. The rest is on the street, but not too bad.

I purchased my e-bike kit from a shop that was not mentioned here, The LA Shop located in Los Angeles. The motor is a 48v 1000w front motor hub that uses v-brakes. Price was only $279 plus CA tax. That was the best price I found after doing much research and I liked the fact it was local. After 7 months of riding, I have to say it is great. I ride 15 miles each way to work, charge my batteries at work, and then ride back. Saves me $5/day in gas money and no wear and tear on my car.

Last month, I decided to buy a backup bike and get another e-bike kit. I opted for disc brakes on my new bike and got the motor elsewhere. The first motor I purchased isn't compatible with disc brakes. So the new motor came from China, CZ Brushless motors. Specs were the same, 48v 1000w motor hub. Motor came in, I installed it on my new bike, a 2012 Specialized Hardrock Disc 26. After one month of riding the new bike, I noticed the lack of power compared to the other one. My 2nd hub motor draws more amps and goes slower. I'm 185 lbs and top out at about 27 mph without pedaling(lose 1-2 mph on the 2nd motor hub setup). I run 48v 15amp lipos on my e-bike setup and do the 15 miles full throttle in 45 min (would be faster if wasn't for traffic lights).

If I had known the other motor was weaker, I would have stuck with the one I got from The LA Shop. The new bike does have suspension and disc brakes, so that's good. But, I can feel the difference in power when I ride. The first motor accelerates harder and runs stronger near the end of my commute when batteries are drained. I also rigged both bikes with night lights. Will be posting a pic when I get home tonight. I also saved some money on batteries by using my existing RC airplane lipos wired in series. I will probably opt for the Life4 batteries in the future as it's supposed to give you more cycles theoretically. My current lipos have been cycled about 200x so far. I've been riding since April and the lipos are cycled 2x/day each day I ride to work.

welcome to the site twinbrother. i also ride my electric bicycle back and forth to work. i think they are awesome. not sure why the difference in speed if using the same battery. one motor may be wrapped tighter then the other. did you go with front wheel again or rear on the new one? specialized is a nice bike for sure

I went front wheel on both bikes. I wanted to keep the weight distributed better on the bike. I did put both motors on a watt meter full throttle and both draw about 23 amps on 48v. My thinking is the 2nd motor is less efficient possibly due to the motor winding and maybe extra weight. The hub is bigger and feels a tad heavier. I still like the new bike but am spoiled from the greater speed of the first bike, especially going uphill. The first one pulls significantly harder.

Paul, what ebike it do you have and how much did it cost you? What is the exact setup you have?

i actually have 2 golden motors, magic pie and a smart pie. both rear wheel,. i had a front drive piece of junk long ago and the front wheel would slide out from under me on gravel. few close ones and i was done with the front wheel hubs. the magic pie i have on a trek pure comfort bike and the smart pie i have on a trek 3500 disk mountain bike. I call the mountain bike pie trek and the pure is the pie trek next generation lol. i got about a grand into each kit with the shipping. battery motor ect
http://motorbicycling.com/showthread.php?t=40212
http://motorbicycling.com/showthread.php?t=42549