Old Guys Simplex moto-peddle bike

indian22 · Dec 19, 2019

Lew I'm always glad to hear members buy into this as a passion and that the forum is proving helpful to them. Metro areas are a challenge to riders I rode in Houston for many years, though I picked my times to play in traffic there was no way to avoid it. I prefer the country pace, still have to keep the head on a swivel, but it's a lot safer ride all considered.

I made some serious progress yesterday, but still a lot to do before I start to clean up and finish. One thing I mentioned in passing was engine offset to the right and I'm playing with balance to get the right offset and still feel right. Also there's always the motor to rear sprocket chain line to allow for & having the jack shaft in case limits adjustment somewhat. Also I want to be able to easily re-locate the motor case assembly, when the need arises, to the frame. The motor can be taken out of the case without disturbing the housings position & with the motor out the jackshaft bearing blocks can be removed, but I still want it to be relatively painless to pull the complete housing should the need arise.

I've cut ports for access to grease the bearing assemblies externally. I've not yet committed to welding in the case frame mounting lugs I see the need for three on the crank case. I'll also have one at the top of each cylinder to stabilize with the lower frame straddle tube.

Glad I started this, but probably wouldn't have had I known for certain what it would entail lol!

Rick C.

Tom from Rubicon · Dec 19, 2019

lewdog7431 said:
Wow hella reviews, as a younger man in this world of bicycle motor's I've just recently picked up this life style last year and in the past 12 months I've learned so much about m.b. that I've rearranged my life around them I've beenreading your guys stories and I enjoy learning new all the time, here in California san Jose to be accurate it is a mad house for driving anything especially bicycles way dangerous these people will hit you and drive away just to get ahead in traffic with out breaking, real talk, it's crazy riding my bike and keeping up with traffic on the Express way at first with no helmet.psycho. but I got a full DOT brain bucket with face shield ment for riding for real ,so now it's a helmet some shots and wide open throttle ,I enjoy seeing the looks of people's faces as I pass them up and cut on in traffic on my bicycle motorized, **** yea dangerous but necessary ,although I do not ride the freeway way too psycho for bicycling but who knows what I'll do next, truthfully I don't plan on going back to pedaling ever if I can help it and I love this so much better..........lewdog

lewdog , Welcome and enjoy. This and the other MB forum are a great source of what was did and won't be done again, and what worked. Then there are members here and elswhere who buy or build well engineered MB's.
Tom

MotoMagz · Dec 19, 2019

This is a really cool project! Also a great read... but I like pictures! It’s gonna be cool...

indian22 · Dec 20, 2019

Thanks to Pat D. and Tony01 for great ongoing advice regarding the V-twin electric project and the general encouragement received from the many forum members & visitors who are following along as well. Magz I think we all like the photos, I do, and I'm reminded at times that lengthy threads dealing with multiple subjects are difficult for the occasional visitor to follow and photos are a huge benefit to keep track of subject matter under current consideration.

This is the Simplex thread & that is ongoing though often delayed. My work on the Simplex sidecar project led me to e-motors and controllers for use as a reverse for the sidecar rig, but I quickly realized (relatively speaking) that I knew virtually nothing about the separate components involved: lithium batteries, controller, BMS & brushless motors or how they worked in conjunction with one another etc. etc. I determined to build a simple hub direct drive e-bike and learn things for the Simplex project. That led to a Fat tire e-bike, a mountain e-bike and a hybrid e-bike. That brings us to the V-twin electric to be used on another board track bike and all this thread just to learn about e-motor function. The Simplex sidecar will eventually benefit from these side projects. It's overkill & obsessive, certainly, but instructive and fun as heck!

Rick C.

fasteddy · Dec 20, 2019

I've been quietly following the build. I had imagined something like this for the electric tri car but seeing the detailed build your doing I don't think it will be done and if it is certainly not to the incredibly fine detail your doing.

You have built a complete non operational Harley engine. A tribute to your outstanding skills.

Steve.

Tom from Rubicon · Dec 20, 2019

Ya' know Rick, my wife does word puzzles to keep her noodle working and we create physical engineering challenges which have tangible rewards that puzzling will not. I'm on the engineering challenge's.
Tom

indian22 · Dec 21, 2019

fasteddy said:
I've been quietly following the build. I had imagined something like this for the electric tri car but seeing the detailed build your doing I don't think it will be done and if it is certainly not to the incredibly fine detail your doing.

You have built a complete non operational Harley engine. A tribute to your outstanding skills.

Steve.

Hi Steve thanks and hope your feeling much better, non-operational is the key phrase and matches my self analysis closely. I wake each morning with the thought of at least two things I've not attended to and today was no exception. Yesterday I completed the cast and worn appearance of the intake rockers, except to age the shiny to develop the aluminum oxide "ageing" and it seems I've a couple of other things to do today for the rocker mounts & valve stem...the push rod isn't even started. See what I mean and this is just a fake!

Though it won't be an ICE replication it does have advantages over a restored original engine and without considering the incredible prices that even basket motors fetch these days. I can ride the dog out of it everyday and a complete "engine overhaul" is a couple hundred bucks, no coddling necessary and minimal fidgeting along the way. So it's understandable why rich women wear the faux diamonds and keep the real deals insured and in the vault. All the fun (don't be crass certainly they're real darling...I'm rich!) without the worry.

Now back to the e- tri-car. Have you considered the very practical, though not totally un-complicated process of the current Tadpole being electrified as a disguised hybrid? Stately, dignified speeds don't require much in the way of power, and great cunning is a requisite of older gentlemen if they're to succeed among the stronger and the faster. Treachery is also in our tool kits! Some creative staring would be involved and perhaps a malted adult beverage or several along the way, but I'd say your chances of pulling off the hybrid "breeding" as pretty favorable verses starting an e-car from scratch.

Either way Steve you've got the skills, but after 70 it's also about the time so we best use it wisely!

Rick C.

indian22 · Dec 21, 2019

Tom from Rubicon said:
Ya' know Rick, my wife does word puzzles to keep her noodle working and we create physical engineering challenges which have tangible rewards that puzzling will not. I'm on the engineering challenge's.
Tom

Well put Tom. I'm a fan of staying active with purpose and creating something from base materials that's functional and/or interesting . Fabricating compelling classic style bikes, as opposed to those used just for sport or transport, should be considered as period based mobile art which certainly transports the rider forward, but at the same time carries them and those that witness the ride back to an earlier & perhaps simpler point in time. We do in fact build time machines H.G.

At any rate I like it and am having fun!

Rick C.

indian22 · Dec 21, 2019

I've been enjoying a few hours on nice afternoons to work outside and have a great nine day forecast looking forward. So I hope for progress.

Curious I counted parts used on each cylinder at 30, not including any fasteners. Crazy numbers.

Carb brass may come in today. I'm thinking of using copper for exhaust stubs 7" or 8" long. I offset the motor base .75" to the right, pedal drive side. It's the way Harley did it & it shaves 1" of height that misses the bottom straddle tube and the crank case base allows the motor case to straddle over the loop frame and this lowers the overall motor height an additional 1.5" though the bottom of the case is a full three inches closer to the ground.

Rick C.

Tom from Rubicon · Dec 21, 2019

You are right about weather Rick, I may gas up the Flyer and celebrate the passing of solstice in 40's weather with a ride before getting back to helping Mona with Christmas decoration which she can not do.
On a side note Rick, in a resent volume of the Smithsonian this article https://www.smithsonianmag.com/hist...ahoma-crushed-green-corn-rebellion-180973073/
was a interesting read.
Tom

indian22 · Dec 22, 2019

Great account Tom and fits well in the very violent transition period from a wild territory to statehood during the first half of the twentieth century and continues to this day in isolated areas of the state, though not in support of any specific organized doctrine other than a tendency toward anti-establishment and extreme individualism. The area described by the researcher is indeed a dangerous place to go for an outsider (anyone not born there) to take a nature walk or ride. Lot of good people, and really bad, but even the best are wary of strangers and the interference of outside law. The term used to describe that section of S.E. Oklahoma is "little dixie" and bad as that sounds the reality is worse

Rick C.

Tony01 · Dec 22, 2019

We are so lucky to be living in the greatest country on earth. Russia was thriving and even exporting its crop before the revolution, now 100 years later it still has not recovered. How many generations subjected to misery, innocents declared enemies of the state, millions of people murdered... The left is playing with dynamite. They’ve got our schools, beginning the socialist indoctrination from kindergarten and issuing college degrees in propaganda. All it took was our silent consent. Evil prevails when good men fail to act.

indian22 · Dec 22, 2019

We are indeed blessed Tony.

Rick C.

fasteddy · Dec 23, 2019

indian22 said:
Hi Steve thanks and hope your feeling much better, non-operational is the key phrase and matches my self analysis closely. I wake each morning with the thought of at least two things I've not attended to and today was no exception. Yesterday I completed the cast and worn appearance of the intake rockers, except to age the shiny to develop the aluminum oxide "ageing" and it seems I've a couple of other things to do today for the rocker mounts & valve stem...the push rod isn't even started. See what I mean and this is just a fake!

Though it won't be an ICE replication it does have advantages over a restored original engine and without considering the incredible prices that even basket motors fetch these days. I can ride the dog out of it everyday and a complete "engine overhaul" is a couple hundred bucks, no coddling necessary and minimal fidgeting along the way. So it's understandable why rich women wear the faux diamonds and keep the real deals insured and in the vault. All the fun (don't be crass certainly they're real darling...I'm rich!) without the worry.

Now back to the e- tri-car. Have you considered the very practical, though not totally un-complicated process of the current Tadpole being electrified as a disguised hybrid? Stately, dignified speeds don't require much in the way of power, and great cunning is a requisite of older gentlemen if they're to succeed among the stronger and the faster. Treachery is also in our tool kits! Some creative staring would be involved and perhaps a malted adult beverage or several along the way, but I'd say your chances of pulling off the hybrid "breeding" as pretty favorable verses starting an e-car from scratch.

Either way Steve you've got the skills, but after 70 it's also about the time so we best use it wisely!

Rick C.

Hi Rick,

I'm feeling better thank you. Unfortunately as I feel better I tend to overwork everything and wind up dealing with new pain. Muscles that have not been over taxed or barely taxed in years now are and they are none to happy about it. Eventually everything with balance out.

I have thought about electrifying the Indian tri car often but it's so close to completion I built the electric tri car frame and front end using up spare parts. Once Christmas is over I'll be back at everything.

I'm thinking that the electric tri car will be built as an early 1900's motorized electric bicycle may have been. The battery box and motor cover well appointed with mahogany and copper and brass. Once I get to it, it will be a lot quicker that the Indian since it will simply be what I want to build without the restrictions of following a recognizable motorcycle from the past.

Steve.

indian22 · Dec 23, 2019

Good Steve we've mentioned before that actual replicating is quite difficult compared to free forming in the likeness of a period piece. I favor the 2nd. as it allows a degree of self expression & feels more creative. I've restored cars, trucks & motorcycle's to factory fresh and it's exhaustive and expensive to do correctly. and restrictive as you mention. Your tri-car has been become one of this category, so you deserve an opportunity to turn loose and build one as if it could have been. I determined a decade ago not to replicate anything ever again, just after finishing the restoration work on the antique Gurley "Sun compass" survey instrument, which I'm trying to purchase from the consigner's estate, but feel it will be a donation to a museum collection and rightfully so. Though It would be a wonderful daily reminder to me of what was.

The "HD" style e-case is another project being built in the style of rather than a replica and I'm really enjoying the process.

I'm at the point of aligning motor and jack shaft to the mounted case. Easy to repeat future assembly mount points which insure smooth running straight chain lines can be attained for primary as well as secondary power transmission. I'll opt for wide rear triangle 135mm axle width to keep chains, stays and tires from contact and a possible rear disc brake setup as well. Keeping options open for improved braking. I've also decided to not use a freewheel on the motor side to take advantage of regenerative braking, not so much for the improved power range, but for the actual braking effect itself that somewhat duplicates compression breaking with a four stroke motor. The gear reduction design amplifies the resulting braking.

Rick C.

indian22 · Dec 23, 2019

I'm using a brass, Globe style ball valve for the carb body which is quite similar to some of the earliest carb designs, so similar I'd find it hard to believe that the original prototypes didn't use these smooth bore butterfly valves as the basis for further carb development. These were readily available before the turn of the century: just add a float chamber, jets, choke flap, fuel line connector and adjustment screws with a cable connection for the throttle and tinker till she runs! Low cost prototype using off the hardware shelf base components. Shade tree or tool shed development that was cost effective & I be doing simple reverse engineering myself for effect. The overly finished 1910 Harley photo shows the Globe ball valve carb design quite clearly on a single cylinder engine.

Rockers are 95% complete..require some finish work.

I'm far enough along where I'm jumping back and forth on completion details so all comes together at about the same time.

Rick C.

indian22 · Dec 23, 2019

I've ordered another valve body to make up two carbs one to have ready for a future flat head style V-twin e-housing. I've already seen several ways to alter my basic case design for another build perhaps a 7 or 8 kw small motorcycle build legal for highway use & set on a small duplex frame. Total weight under 250 lbs. That way I can retire my big cycles as I never seem to get them out of storage anymore. I can sell one old ride and could build several e-cycles with the $$ recovered from the sale, though I'd probably stop with just one good fluid cooled electric that could cruise safely at 70mph.

Just thinking

Rick C.

indian22 · Dec 23, 2019

First time I've had motor and jackshaft assembled together in the case with base frame mount welded in. Plenty of room for all the necessities. Motor air flow is an important part of the case design & the additional side plates & guards won't block air flow through the motors end casings. In addition the bottom of the case is also open for circulation. I hope to get a couple of motor output side plates finished tomorrow. Photos as I progress will make more sense of it all.

The primary drive chain will have a small spring loaded tensioner mounted to the motor case & shouldn't be visible with the chain guard in place. Jack shaft sprocket shown is just for show, much too wide, but the gear itself is placed with the proper offset for the secondary drive line to function. Remember the case is offset .5" to the right (pedal side) & 135 mm rear width will still be necessary to set up a good chain line. Tire clearance isn't a problem, but seat stay on a narrow frame would be with the current engine offset.

I need to fabricate a one inch tube test/work stand for this motor going forward, it will be hard to work on once the cylinders go back on with the motor loaded it's heavy and unwieldy with no real area left to clamp to. I also like to see any motor operate under some load on the work bench before mounting it to the bike.

Period F motor diagram gives an idea of what's going on with this inlet over exhaust Harley design. I want major components present while taking a bit of license along the way with the e-case...

Rick C.

Harley motor drive side with jack shaft.jpg

Harley-Davidson-Big-Twins-–-The-F-head-4-2-hires.jpg

indian22 · Dec 25, 2019

Over the last few months I've run across numerous detailed patent application & marketing drawings for both Indian and Harley. I find the symmetry between the concentric and eccentric fascinating & the lack of uniformity in the small details that show up in photos of machines manufactured during the same model year attest that these were very much final fitted by hand and from bin parts sourced from multiple vendors. I'd say the shop workers had to have some mental snap and patience to fit and finish these engines to run properly.

Output side plates are coming together. I hope to have this side secured to the motor by tomorrow, doubt I'll have any time to actually work on it today. Primary chain is 8mm and output 415. 8mm is e-scooter and pit bike chain.

Merry Christmas everyone enjoy the day in peace

!

Rick C.

indian22 · Dec 25, 2019

I cut 21/64" off the cart sprocket for the offset required on the reduction drive. Quite a few changes made in this patent drawing. Double overhead valves, double exposed rockers, improved cooling fins along with exhaust port located high on each cylinder are obvious. Twin camshafts, one per cylinder. The drawing is mislabel as an F head as it's not an inlet over exhaust design, but OHV. Model F engine perhaps?

Rick C.

Old Guys Simplex moto-peddle bike

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