wheel balencing

WildAlaskan · Oct 16, 2010

so ive heard that you can balence your wheels with solder i have tried it and i cant seem to get it right i think i am doing it right but the wheel is way out of balence

i let the wheel role till it stops usually slows till it rocks back and forth then put weights on the opposit side

maybe i need more wieght cause i got tired of wrepping solder wire and grabbed a shotgun sheel taped it to the light side and spun the wheel of course it was to heavy but still to properly balence my wheel it seems like i need alot more wieght than usual

corgi1 · Oct 16, 2010

make sure the tire is centered on the wheel,spin it and see if it looks round and dosen't hop while spinning,balance after round

WildAlaskan · Oct 16, 2010

the tire is as good as i can get it the rim is a old double walled rim thats slightly out of tru i cant seem to get it just right

Bikeguy Joe · Oct 17, 2010

Spin the wheel, and mark the high side. Do that a few times, and you will find the true "heavy" side. Then wrap the solder around one spoke and then spin it again. If you have a really bad out of balance condition, you'll have to wrap a couple of spokes side by side.

Sometimes, you'll have solder wrapped in a couple of spots, 2-3 spoke apart to get it right.

WildAlaskan · Oct 17, 2010

ok well i figured out the hight spot i was jut wraping aroun two spokes net to each other it makes sense to spread them out

also i dont know where but it was on this forum i saw a picture of a wheel with the all spokes wrapped with fine wire atthe point they cross in the middle area not near the hub i wonder whts that supposed to do it seem like it would make it more rigid and and if you hit a bunpm it would bend easier cause the rim wouldnt flex as much

Dave31 · Oct 17, 2010

WildAlaskan said:
also i dont know where but it was on this forum i saw a picture of a wheel with the all spokes wrapped with fine wire atthe point they cross in the middle area not near the hub i wonder whts that supposed to do it seem like it would make it more rigid and and if you hit a bunpm it would bend easier cause the rim wouldnt flex as much

http://motorbicycling.com/f31/how-tie-spokes-780.html

2door · Oct 17, 2010

Do you have 'Slime' in your tubes? If so, forget trying to balance your wheels.
Tom

WildAlaskan · Oct 17, 2010

thanks for the link dave

2door i do not have slime in there its just a ten dollar rim tire and tube so i guess i cant really expect to much out of it im busy now but later tonight i will try to balence further i will keep he results posted

heres a crazy thought maybe for another thread but what if i filled a tube and tire completly full with a silicone or slime

Goat Herder · Oct 17, 2010

2door said:
Do you have 'Slime' in your tubes? If so, forget trying to balance your wheels.
Tom

Do clarify? I can see if'n a guy is statically balancing a tire it would not work out for them.

Filling the tubes up with anything besides air makes no sense to me. However a untrued wheel or tire that is not true [lateral or vertical movement]. You can hang stuff off the spokes all you want it is always gonna ride rough regardless of what you use.

I use slime in 4 different peddle bikes and three motorized. Tires and rims are straight on every one of them. I am getting no vibes

Been up to around forty and fifty miles an hour on all of them.

I don't have reflectors or anything on my wheels...

corgi1 · Oct 17, 2010

actually the slime may act to balance the tires when at speed like the lead shot filled rings that can be mounted behind car wheels,(I'm not sure if it is lead shot,I never took one apart)

WildAlaskan · Oct 18, 2010

im sure what he meant when he said dont try to balence with slime cause it will always flow down i dont have slime in there so maybe after its balenced i might ttry but it seems i only ever get hole bigger than they are supposed to seal

anythoughts about completly silicone filled tubes i dont mean just 1 tube of it i mean a brand new tube with no air take out the valve and squirt silicone in there it makes sense it will not harden but just the right pressure it could privide for a softer ride with less chance of flats and if there was a flat well it woulnt really be a flat it would be more of a leak cause the pressure of a solid inflated tube would keep the tire sealed so if silicone escaped tube it would be in the tire

2door · Oct 18, 2010

WA,
What I meant about the Slime making balancing impossible is that it is a semi-liquid and will move to the lowest place in the tube as the wheel rotates. While trying to balance you're only spinning the wheel very slowly or allowing it to settle so the heaviest place is at the bottom. With Slime, the heaviest place will always be where that glob of goop settles. When riding, in theory at least, the Slime evenly displaces throughout the tube. I think the jury is still out on that one however.
As for your idea of filling a tube with silicone; you'd have to evacuate all of the air from the tube first and it would need to be in a negative pressure to allow complete filling without voids (air pockets). While injecting the silicone you could not allow any air to enter during that process. You'd also need to use several full size tubes (caulking gun size) to fill a 26" bike tube. Just compare the length and diameter of a tube of silicone to an inner tube to see that a single tube wouldn't come close to filling it.
What Goat Herder says is also true. If a wheel or tire is out-of-round, no amount of balancing will give you a smooth ride. True the rims and use good quality tires, then if you feel balancing is still necessary, go from there. Just don't use Slime before trying to balance. Good luck.
Tom

Goat Herder · Oct 18, 2010

I have never had to balance a tire or rim. I will never understand what you folks are trying to accomplish. If a tire or rim is out of wack side to side up down [untrue not straight] It will never ever be right no matter what you do. While you may take some hop away[whatever I doubt that] it will scrub.

My point is if the wheel is not true you are going to feel something no matter what you do.

There is not enough weight in a bike wheel to negotiate balancing. A untrue wheel is a untrue wheel.

Even in the automotive world if a tire is out of round guess what they condemn it. They don't balance it they through it away.

corgi1 · Oct 18, 2010

they sure try to at Sears,lol

WildAlaskan · Oct 18, 2010

i guess you guys are right it was a cheap tire i should just ride it till it fails although it may feel like a horse galloping

2door thanks for the detailed explaination but i understood exactly whta you meant the first time you said it

and as for the tube of silicone i would use a brand new tube with no air in it keep it rbberbanded tight while i remove the valve and pump some stuff in and when i switch tubes out i would sqeez some silicone out to make sure not air pockets got in

but thats just a wild idea for a wild alaskin

thaks for the input guys but i have come to the realization if i wan smoothness i probly will have to find a new wheel and if im gonna get a new wheel its gonna be a double walled

BarelyAWake · Oct 20, 2010

Goat Herder said:
I have never had to balance a tire or rim. I will never understand what you folks are trying to accomplish. If a tire or rim is out of wack side to side up down [untrue not straight] It will never ever be right no matter what you do. While you may take some hop away[whatever I doubt that] it will scrub.

My point is if the wheel is not true you are going to feel something no matter what you do.

There is not enough weight in a bike wheel to negotiate balancing. A untrue wheel is a untrue wheel.

Even in the automotive world if a tire is out of round guess what they condemn it. They don't balance it they through it away.

Out of true & out of balance are two completely different issues. An untrue rim is often easily fixed with spoke tension, having a wheel trued is inexpensive and a skill easily learned. Wheel balance on the other hand isn't much of a concern with the low speeds & lightweight rims & tires bicycles are known for - usually. If you've vintage heavy steel rims, ride in excess of 30mph and/or have extremely heavy duty, industrial tires - even those "runflat" solid tubes (I've not run them, have had poor reviews), then balance may become a concern as even a mere ounce or two can lead to a pronounced vibration (the higher the speeds, the greater the imbalance, the more the effect) - given the sheer simplicity, how easy it is to balance a wheel w/a heavy spot - there's no reason in the world to not try it.

I've inexpensive ($12) but extremely heavy duty "industrial" 26" x 2.125 tires on my vintage ride (used for commercial applications like delivery & rentals), they're quite similar in design, thickness & tread as the stock Worksman tires with doubled rim liners & extra thick tubes. Tho cheap the added weight/thickness of these tires has provided the benefit of over four thousand miles without a flat and w/o the muss & fuss of tube goo - I did just get my first puncture, but that rear tire is (finally) gettin' worn out lol

Anyway, I did find that because they're cheap commercial tires, they're somewhat poorly molded with a comparatively severe heavy spot. I simply added a touch of weight to the light side and there was a pronounced improvement in ride comfort at the "high" speeds of motorized biking. As with all things it's situational and depends greatly on application - standard alloy rims & normal bicycle tires? Puttin' goop in yer tubes? Yea - balancing is defo a waste of time. Very heavy wheelset & sustained high speeds? Heck - give balancing a shot, it sure wont hurt anything lol

corgi1 · Oct 20, 2010

5280 feet in a mile,X that by 12 inches in a foot =63360 inches,,,
.
26 inch wheel X (pi)3.1416=81.68 (round up to 82 inches),,,
.
63360 inches(mile),divided by 82 inches=772.68 revolutions per mile of the 26 inch wheel,,,if this happens in 1 minute ,it is 60 mph,,,
.
divide 772.68 rpm by 2 =386.34 rpm for 30 mph,,,
.
divide 386.34 by 60 seconds = 6.4 rps (1 mississippi),,,
.
Tie a 1/2 ounce weight to a strong string and a loop at 13 inches from the weight,go way out in the back ward away from windows ,kids,animals etc.,and spin the string and weight 6.4 rps and feel the out of balance,,,

2door · Oct 20, 2010

Or suspend the bike wheel where it can be spun to speed. This is easy on the front, a bit more work for a rear wheel (remove the chain/s). I rigged up a large roller that I could attach to a drill and spun my front wheels, speedo working, up to 30mph. I did this before balancing. Ya wanna talk vibration, albeit a slow vibration, maybe best called bounce, Try it. Add this to what the engine produces and you'll see why our bikes aren't as comfy to ride as a motorcycle. Just another reason to keep the speeds to a reasonable level. The faster you go, the more severe vibes. Oh, and yes, I balance and true my wheels.
Tom

corgi1 · Oct 20, 2010

1 oz weight can be felt in a car going 45 mph and that wheel and tire is heavy,so 1/4-1/2 on a light bike tire would be felt

WildAlaskan · Oct 20, 2010

i once put a 700c tire on a smaller rim i think just one size smaller i went and bought a rima and tire i thought it was just a bad tire but it turned out the guy sold me the wrong rim i was galloping down the road it really did feel like a horse

also have any of you ever tried puting a smoth tire with the wire cut out in a regular tire to increase wall strenght i did this once it seemed to take sharp turns way better but i am as far using all my tires so i havent done it again

wheel balencing

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