The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike

re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Oh I'm sure I'll shoot some vids... but it's gonna be a while man - I'm still waiting on some parts I've ordered, lookin' around for the best prices/retailer rep to order some others, and I'm havin' a bit of a problem convincing my boss to get some chromoly in stock... well, not convincing him really as he's willing to do it, he's jus' gotta actually get around to doing it lol (I geta save some pennies as it's "at cost" fer me w00t). Then there's "little" things like I've gotta have the front wheels built as for some reason they don't seem to make 20" BMX wheelsets w/disk brakes lol

Ofc I also hafta figure out how to get alla pieces to fit together...

hmmm...

re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Noice - tho it's defo gonna pour out, such minor inconveniences ain't gonna stop ya right?

BTW, ya prolly know this but Bath Cycle & Ski has 1/2 links and such in stock & they're the good 'uns with a proper link pin, not the lil cotter that I just can't bring myself to trust what with the limited clearances of a shift kit... (FYI, Zack in the service center is ossum & understands the MB thang).

Gotta swing by sometime w/yer new build man - I can't wait ta see what you've done!

re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Righty-o... things keep changing as I work this out heh & it looks like I just might end up w/my first chopper

Still waiting on parts & materials, I can't help but play w/what I've got kickin' around & earlier this summer I picked up a kid-sized 110cc four-wheeler just cause it was cheap & interesting. This mornin' much to my housemate's dismay I gotta twich and hacked it up w/my trusty 4 1/2" grinder w/a cut-off wheel... because there was jus' something decidedly suspicious about how it was settin' there lookin' at me o.o

Turns out it's so close to being right in so many ways I just might use it for the lower frame & front suspension, I gotta widen the front end by about 6" & add top bars which would act to box it in for strength & double as seat rails & upper motor mounts - here's another rough mock up just to see how things line up (click to view);



Don't worry, I'm not actually gonna use those wallyworld shocks or even the junk four-wheeler one for the rear, just like the scrap rims it's just for checkin' scale & position... but jeez - it's tempting to use the four-wheeler chassis

Granted, they're single A-arm instead of doubles which can result in tracking issues when compressed, but that's an easy mod if it proves problematic & should I choose this route - I'll not be makin' it a leaner *shrug* If nothin' else it was fun to chop up some steel lol

re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

WhooHoo! The 'Pie hub motor showed up yesterday which ofc means more fiddling around, measurin' & daydreaming heh - I'm still a looooong way off from bolting anything together ofc, but I grabbed a few more frame pieces & did a lil more figurin' regarding wheelbase & ride height. At the moment it's 3' 8" from front to rear axles w/about 7.5" of ground clearance, 1' 3" to the bottom of the seat & front is 30" wide... which sux 'cause my stupid doorway into the shop/parking is 28" naturally



I really can't sacrifice even a mere 2" in width simply to be able to easily get it inside at night, wheelbase width = stability at speed & I'm at a disadvantage vs most trikes 'cause I'm insisting on havin' an ICE crammed in there lol, keeping the center of gravity as low as possible is also a priority - made difficult by the extra ground clearance needed for a full suspension... still, I'm using the moments from Zombie's 'Street Fox' as it's a road tested & "proven" design & the seat height & wheelbase is workin' out about the same. The top frame bars in the above pics are 2" higher than they'll be - there's some leftover mount tabs and whatnot preventing it from settin' all the way down to where it needs ta be - but as it's 6am, I don't think the side handle grinder noise would be forgiven lol, here's a pic of the 'Street Fox w/a rider to give ya an idea of scale;



I'm having a bit of a problem sourcing out a seat for the thing & while it may seem a lil early to be worried about such piddling details - I actually really need one to help figure out ride position, which is needed to figure out where the controls go, which is need to figure out the linkages, which is needed to check for exhaust system clearance & routing, which is needed to see where the pedal chain goes, etc., etc., etc... It seems that much like in the aviation & marine worlds - the second ya mention "recumbent" the prices quintuple even if it's a crossover part commonly found on bicycles

I suppose I could ofc just make one... but I'm reluctant to get into that as what with the comfy organic curves - it'd really prolly hafta be fiberglass and that's a whole 'nother project all in itself & that's not something I wanna get dragged into jus' yet. Still, after a 'tarded amount of time scouring the interwebs I came up with an affordable possibility... only problem is it's an unknown vendor & I've no clue as to if they're legit - I'll hafta give 'em a call to see what their deal is. Here's a pic of the seat in question & it's about perfect for my needs... I think... mebbe lol;


ActionBent Recumbent Bikes

I made an interesting discovery jus' a lil while ago - I was gettin' summore cawfee and was walkin' past the Rollfast and it's handlebars caught my eye... grabbin' the trusty tape measure I ran it from grip to grip and wouldn't ya know it - the bdanged things are 29" wide! While they're defo on the wide side & when I first started ridin' it I felt like my left hand was gonna get clipped by a cager - I've gotten used to 'em and actually I've really not had a problem riding it around... so maybe... just maybe my concerns about Maine roadways & the complete lack of a paved shoulder aren't as dire as I thought... Here's hopin' anyways lol

re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Thanks guys

Silver - lol man, I see no hijacking here! As is somewhat apparent I really dig readin' about other people's ideas & experiences, their questions leadin' me to answers I hadn't even looked for

Thing is if it weren't for the fact you've already got the bits n'pieces I'd hafta recommend against it, since ya do anyway it can't hurt to give it a whirl... but I'm seriously outside my "comfort zone" on this 'un & I've no idea at all if it'll work out as planned. I suspect I'm dancing on the fine point of diminishing returns, the sheer weight of all the components perhaps overwhelming the gain - made worse by my decision to go with the tubular mild steel frame instead of the chromoly, compounded by my decision to use AGM batteries (at least initially). I'm considering this 12Ah 48v AGM battery pack for the testing phase at least BTW 12 Ah 48 Volt AGM Battery Pack (Premium) tho KiM did reco a pack from this guy, who's gotta great rep: PingBattery LiFePO4 Battery packs for Electric Bicycle e-Bike & Scooter, Lithium Iron Phosphate Battery

I thought a bit about a HT & a hub motor, the greatly reduced weight of the HT helping to offset the weights of batteries & electric engine... but while the HP of the 2 smoker is "supposed" to be roughly equivalent to the 4 (both HP ratings are questionable ofc) one of the advantages of a 4 stroke is torque, essential for such a heavy machine... I really can't predict what the outcome of this project will be like but I'm willing to take a chance to amuse myself lol, since ya've gott all the stuff might as well give it a try - it'd be ossum to get some feedback w/similar setup ...but if you've access to a trailer, ya might wanna load it up w/the 36v GM and the batteries & tow it around w/the HT just to see how much ya loose in performance w/the HT *shrug*



azbill - yea, mounting anything on a tadpole is proving to be a challenge lol, but given the Lifan four stroker is so wide @ 11" (due to the auto-clutch), if I keep that width all the way back to the pivot point for the rear stays/suspension, I end up with two (roughly) 11"L x 6"T x 3"W "boxes" on the outside of the frame rails that woulda been great fer cargo - if I didn't need a place fer batts heh. It might even look kinda groovy with an enclosure *shrug* The fuel is actually a lil trickier with the gravity fed carb, takin' a tip from some ultralights I'm thinking in between the frame rails & behind the seat where I've roughly 11"L x 3"T x 5"W space fer a tank (click to view);



The above leaves a 9"L x 5"T x 6"W open area between the frame rails for such silly essentials as the rear shock, exhaust pipe, sprockets, jackshaft & chains... easy access for maintenance is somewhat challenging but as I'll need to be able to pull the engine & can't just weld the frame up where it sets - I'm thinking of "hinging" the top frame rails up at the juncture near the front shocks, allowing the seat & rails to flip forward, opening kinda like a car's hood - but normally bolted down of course lol. I don't think it'll be a structural concern as those top rails are essentially frame "stiffeners" - there's no motor mounts or anything beyond tank & seat & with six points of contact & bolted, it outa be strong 'nuff *crosses fingers*



The biggest challenge by far is weight... every ounce counts & the smaller the engine the more this is true - but the odds of outstanding performance are pretty uncertain, even unlikely due to some of my decisions & budget. Four strokers are heavy & made even more so with an internal gearbox, electric engines are pretty hefty too but my cop-out decision to test w/AGMs instead of the far superior LiFePO4s is another strike against me. Throw in my decision to go with a chopped 4 wheeler tubular steel frame instead of chromoly or aluminum and the pounds keep adding up... and it's even somewhat exponential as the heavier it gets the larger the shocks need to be (more weight), the more I need to gusset, the brakes need to be larger, the sprockets, chains & bearings all need to be heftier too, etc., etc., etc.

What I'm thinking is that this build is a test platform, I can play with math all day long but I won't really get a feel for it until I just build something and try it out. I figure that much like your average HT kit, I'll build this "basic" version first and see where it gets me - if it's got potential but is a bit lethargic due to it's poundage, I can start with "performance upgrades" like the LiFePO4 battery packs. If that's a "success" I can always strip down the prototype frame & use it as a 3D blueprint & replicate it in aluminum or chromoly. If in fact the "tribrid" concept falls really short of expectations, I can always pull the 'Pie and stick it on another bike, running the trike as a straight four stroke/pedal assist... the weight reduction of removing all electric drive components should leave me with a pretty good motorized trike so I've little risk, worst case scenario I'm just gettin' components for a trike and a bike lol


...but hey, it's the unknown that's attractive, the potential "quiet" cruise & comfort, the range & reliability that's got me wonderin' - if I wanted raw speed alone I'da saved some cash by jus' gettin' a Morini for the thing (I really wanna see a lightweight 9hp tadpole lol).

re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Defo - I can see the problems ya had w/yer BikeBug & hub, jus' for a lil while I messed with a similar setup, a lil friction drive (rear) rack ICE & a 'Zap' drive (discontinued now);



At the time I wasn't worried about comfort, speed or (electric) range & it worked well enough that I guess it's stuck in my mind (if not consciously lol)... but as you noticed w/yer setup the weight was substantial & the benefit marginal - yet one thing I really enjoyed was the "stealth mode" through town with the power & range of an ICE for the distance. At the time I was living in Vermont & the posh lil town I lived near frowned greatly on the screaming chainsaw noises lol

Sadly, although fun & functional like your setup it was "overall not a winner" for any number of small reasons, no any one really killing the project but more a combination of factors - top heavy weight being the most prominent, the hills of Vermont & the unsuitably tiny engines another biggie, dual friction drives also took their toll. I'm straining to remember - but I think the only reason I stopped riding it was I trashed the roller drive for the ICE & tried to make one myself & failed miserably heh (long bfore this ossum forum was around ta help)... Given the lil 12v electric didn't have squat for range - that was the end of my very brief initial experimenting w/motorized bicycles, heck - I'd even forgotten about that summer o'fun until I saw a similar engine here on the forum & it all came back to me... guess I'm gettin' old too *sigh*

I'm not actually building this trike for speed BTW silver, at least not max top speed anyway... I suppose it might look fast because of it's lay-back design but much like yer thoughts on the "Cripmobile' (heh, bet some gangstas would be less than pleased w/that name), I'm tryin' for comfort, reliability & ease - I'll not hafta swing a leg over & I'm lookin' forward to the reclining lawn chair as I watch the world roll by heh. If it does in fact turn out to be a fast'un I'll not complain ofc - I've still the need for speed and it gets the better of me from time to time, but I assure you that both Thud & KiM's stuff would blow me outa the water like I was standing still, they're building Ferraris & I'm going for... I unno... a Subaru Forester mebbe? There's a touch of "work truck" in my thoughts, a trailer in it's future w/o a doubt heh, the "performance" I'm after is raw durability, focusing on acceleration & handling - the take off from a dead stop & torque for the hills. Even the Rollfast is deceptive, I went with gears to improve it's acceleration, engine mods were done w/that same thought more than top speed... it just ended up being a lil faster than I thought it'd be lol, no complaints tho (I'd still get destroyed at the Death Race w/o a doubt)

Not to say there isn't speed potential as a recumbent has far less wind resistance (the number one top speed killer by far) - if I take the "best case" scenario with the manufacturer's data, the 'Pie is only reported to have a 45KPH (27.9MPH) max speed even with my 48v/1000w setup & while it'll ofc be able to go faster with the ICE helping, four strokes aren't known for their high RPM power... and usually have about the same top end, sometime a lil more. Gearing naturally muddles all of that, but I'm crossing my fingers for a sustainable 35mph, perfect for our back roads & traffic safety... it's the "sustainable" bit that's tricky tho with the terrain 'round here, thus my focus on torque vs horsepower...

There are any number of engine mods for both the 'Pie and the Lifan, one of the reasons I got the 'Pie is it's controller is programmable & feature rich w/a USB port for a 'puter interface, naturally there's people hackin' away at it with both software & hardware mods: Much More Powerful Pie Now!!! & there's a ton of potential for the Lifan, big bore kits, cams & even fuel injection: Small Engine EFI conversion Kit ...but while I deliberately sought feature rich & upgradable engines for later modification and tinkering potential, some of them can have reliability consequences, most are quite costly & I'm hoping I won't need them as that would mean my experiment is somewhat a failure... but it's nice that such is available for next winter's tinkerin'... heck, I'll take top speed and acceleration ifn I can get it heh

Speakin' of "costly" I did go ahead and order this seat from ActionBent Recumbent Bikes (click to view);



...turns out they're (or were, not a lot of recent feedback) quite reputable & respected for their low-cost but quality recumbents, and while the above seat cost about $200 with S&H - the next least expensive seats I found for a full lay-back recumbent was $4-500 and up! While I'll buy quality components & accept that such will ofc cost more - there's no way in heck I'm gonna pay five hundred dollars or more for a freakin' plastic bike seat Two hundred was pushing it... but I really don't wanna get dragged into a fiberglass project on top of everything else, my time involved would work out to about the same cost so *shrug* close enough. It's also holding up the R&D as it's such an integral component - I can't even hack the frame any more until I have the seat so even that fundamental aspect is "on hold" until the seat shows up. It's even a bit of a gamble as there's no real measurements or data on the seat & the pics are not the best... I mighta jus' bought myself a really comfy but weird office chair (yea, I took a car racing hi-back and stuck an office chair roller base to it for similar reasons before lol).

Ah well, whatever happens will happen, tis part o'the fun fer me

re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Thank you for the information kip, yes - in fact I am building this as a "a parking lot queen" so to speak, at least during the initial testing phase, we've an ideal lot open for that sort of thing (with permission ofc) just down the road where any number of interesting projects are tested, sanctioned & insured by the owner. Truth is I've not even the slightest idea if this project will work out at all even in basic function - let alone be street worthy or "safe", I'm fully aware I may be building myself a gokart at best

Insofar as Maine laws regarding motorized bicycles, I believe I could make it as compliant as an HT build, without the electric assist ofc as that would put it way over the HP restriction. I've assumed that were it to live up to the dream that I'd most likely need to attempt to register it as a moped (if poss.) to be able to do the long distance trips I wish, even if compliant as an MB - without paperwork there's always the risk of impound, even if a temporary one.

It really makes no matter to me, I'm building it for the sheer fun of tinkering - I've always had some reservation about it's practicality & usability, even as basic a concern as wheel base & our roads. Should it prove a failure for any number of reasons, most - almost of the components easily transfer to more conventional motorized bicycle projects.

If you've accurate & up to date information regarding the specifics of what constitutes a legal motorized bicycle in this, or any other state - please submit it as a thread in our Laws and Legislation section as it's often difficult, even impossible to get such detail from the various DMVs.

This thread is jus' a basic build log, including part numbers, resources & feedback on various vendors should anyone be interested in the components I've selected, heck jus' the 'Pie on a tadpole would be sweet

re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

ActionBent Recumbent Bikes turned out to be a real pleasure to deal with, when ordering the seat it states quite clearly to "specify what make/model" and that "mounting hardware is included" ...which for quite obvious reasons was a bit of a difficult question for me to answer

So anyways, I happily typed in that it was a DIY project & that as such any hardware they chose would be fine by me & submitted my order. The next morning I open my email and found a reply from them, asking if I preferred the wide or narrow seat (not mentioned on the site), that for a DIY trike he thought I probably wanted the wide (14") as the narrow (11") is used mostly for the 2 wheeled recumbent bicycles, but was waiting for confirmation. Pleased that they didn't simply send off what I ordered without making sure it was actually what I wanted, I said the 14"W would be awesome & thanks, his response included: "I will include several brackets which might be helpful with your build" which, while it's a small thing - shows a level of interest in the customer oft forgotten in ecommerce.

While the seat turned out to be a great product, wonderful fiberglass work (vacuum bag layup I think), the included hardware all quality & even the cushion & headrest just right - I knew it's shape would make or break my plans for the engine forward configuration - even the project itself as there's very little wiggle room. For maximum stability at speed & with wheelbase limited to 30" wide - the bottom of the seat really needs to be no more than about 14" frm the ground (lower = better ofc). while I'm trying desperately to keep the wheelbase length to no more than 4' (else I'd need to increase width)... no matter how I juggle the parts - it looks like I'll need to chop & add roughly 6" length to the chassis as I'm somewhat tall (6'1") & with the current rear engine mock up the bottom bracket/crankset & my body weight will be just too far out there for emergency braking stability (nose over).

So, though "stunt" tadpoles have a caster wheel to prevent the chainrings/pedals frm hitting the ground & I'm defo gonna take their tip (prolly a skid plate/rail instead of a caster due to rough terrain) & I've got somewhat of an advantage given I've so much weight towards the back of the trike... nevertheless my weight is just a bit too far forward with the rear engine mock up, I'm not that heavy a guy - but I do weigh more than the engines & batteries lol ...I'm not completely giving up on the engine forward concept BTW - I'll do another mock up after I chop & add a lil length to the frame rails, we'll see - there's advantages & disadvantages with both *shrug*

Which brings up batteries & crankset heh - I cheaped out and got a set of four 12AH AGM batts for testing purposes & a charger from Monster Scooter Parts (mine happen to be black - same product tho), figuring that if it's a "success" I can always upgrade. While it's true this is a quite heavy build (about 80-100lbs dry), it's also just as true that this is a bit of a pricey project compared to the HTs and the price difference between the AGM pack ('bout $130) and the LiFePO4s ('bout $600) vs the weight penalty... well, suffice to say it was a trade-off I was willing to make as I've so many other wirly bits I still need to get lol, the batteries the one thing I was willing to scrimp on.

Heads up on Monster Scooter Parts however - while they're quite friendly & willing to help on the phone, their online catalog is just screwy and in a few cases - wrong. I ordered this charger: 48 Volt 1.8 A 3-Prong Battery Charger (Standard) and received this one instead: 48 Volt 1.6 Amp 3-Pin Battery Charger & Conversion Kit for Panterra Scooters (Standard) which may or may not have reversed polarity (need to test, but irrelevant as I need to make the connector anyway) but is defo not the "1.6 amp" advertised - it's actually 2.5 amp as printed on it's specifications label and the part number in the catalog is incorrect. So - given both the batteries and the charger were not "as advertised" but their customer service more than willing to help - I'd have no problem ordering from them again... but be ready to exchange what ya get for what ya want. I'm OK with what I got... but that was luck really.

I thought I was all set for a bottom bracket/crankset/down tube - I've got at least a half dozen parts bikes I've scavenged, but wouldn't ya know it - when I gabbed my grinder w/a cut off wheel and was gettin' ready to hack me up a bike corpse... turns out that the only bikes I've got w/a nice 3pc bottom bracket w/cartridge are all aluminum! Each and every one that's steel also has a one piece crank & bearing cups, while I could ofc use SBP's nice bottom bracket adapters: Sick Bike Parts - I just really don't like the idea of using an "adapter" on something I'm pretty much building from scratch anyway... it just doesn't seem to make sense somehow *sigh* so other than for test fitting & measurements, I've got nuffin... gonna hafta dig around summore for another donor bike.

Anyway, here's the current mock up w/seat & battery placement, as usual it's at least 2" inaccurate in all dimensions as there's various bits, tabs & whatnot in the way or just missing;

re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Thank kip - but to "not" answer yer question, it's both yes and no lol

There's such a plenitude of options for routing the chain from the pedals to the rear cassette for tadpoles that TBH, I've not picked one out yet I've somewhat of an advantage as I need only go as far as the jackshaft, I'm at a bit of a disadvantage as I've got that pesky engine in the way & I've ground clearance issues what with the suspension and all...

I'm hoping I can run the upper, loaded side of the chain in a channel between the ICE and the frame rails leaving just the slack, unloaded side under the frame (prolly not gonna happen as there's lateral bracing) ... I really don't want anything at all exposed under the frame as I'd like to trail ride the thing if at all possible - but no matter what I'd like, fact remains I'm gonna hafta deal w/it as my steering, tie rods & chain hafta go somewheres & I've not the room/unobstructed area anywhere else

It's one of the reasons I didn't just take the easy way out concerning center of mass & just drop my ride height, I've none to spare *sigh*

re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)



Thanks man, not jus' for the complement - but ya made me lol IRL loud enough my boss was all "What the heck are you up too" - ossum man