7-speed shifting trike

2door said:

KC, I have a great idea. Use a China girl to drive an alternator to charge the battery.
Honda calls it a hybrid. I'd call it a noisy way to charge a battery.

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Besides the good gut laugh we get from that great quip I actually have had a couple of inquiries about building a gas/electric hybrid build on a 2-wheeler but even though there is more room on a trike frame I can see using gas power for a long trip, nobody takes LONG trips on trike and using a 2-stroke gas motor help isn't needed nor is it even feasible to use one as a generator as you pointed out ;-}

This has been a fun thread to read. I've been lurking and listening to you guys talk about trikes and it reminded me of my Trailblazer with the Dax Titan 4 stroke. http://motorbicycling.com/showthread.php?t=13591 What a handful. Torque steer to the rleft and anti-torque steer when you'd let off of it. Scary ride until I got used to it.

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Scary is right. I read the 1st couple of pages of your long topic but I get the point.

I can't scroll down far enough to thank the guy that turned me on to Paul the battery guy by name but thank you!

I got an OK from my CFO, that being my wife being the Chief Finical Officer, to expend the funds needed to make a Universal Electric Trike back battery unit for production.

The thing is my 'under the trike basket case' will have all sorts on lights in it like flashing tail daytime running lights, night running lights, brake lights and turn signals, but the coup-DE-graw would be it being a case like a PC case.

In short 2 bays. A removable battery will come in bay 1 and you can leave bay 2 open, put the charger in it, or put another battery in it and charge externally.

Gas bikes have been fun and the high end ones my bread and butter but I see a whole lot of potential with electric trikes so what the heck, I'll explore what I can do there while I can ;-}

silverbear said:

Wilfred looks smart from a distance.
SB

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He is an intelligent dog, he just has so many bad habits from when my son brought him home to his moms place until he came here a couple of months ago so it will take a long to 'make him a great dog' if it is even possible for those of you that know what I mean.

Well the customer came by yesterday to see how the trike build was coming along, he and his friend each took it for a ride around the block with my original battery strapped in the basket and they liked it so much they took it home.

It could be weeks before the new battery and lights get here so I can build the 'trike box' so what the heck, that suits me just fine, a trike in the shop takes up a bunch of room anyway.

And who knows maybe he'll be happy with the range and want to blow off the $165 balance due and keep it 'as is' which would suit me even better as I am looking at ~$700 for the custom battery box and lights.

Once I get a final delivered price on the battery I'll give him a call and ask before I order it. That would rob me of a photo op but it it would hard to pass up ~$500 in profit considering I wasn't going to make anything on this build.

fasteddy said:

KC,
Glad that Paul was able to help you with the battery. I'll be ordering one from him for the 1200w/48v motor I bought from Sick Bike Parts for the Monark and sidecar.

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Let me know what you go with for the SBP 48V, I have been in the loop on that as well and considered that for this trike but went with the SBP 36V I got last year form them and that was more than enough for this trike.

But, considering the Caddy now sits here with it's freewheel BB still on and hooked to the NuVinci hub but no power plant maybe the CFO will approve putting a 48V back in it as there simply is no reason for this beautiful bike to sit here with no motor power ;-}

My custom 36V battery from Paul at EM3V in Hong Kong arrived a couple of days ago.
$674 delivered but over $100 of that was shipping!



It's a heavy sucker, 7Kg (15.4 lbs).
Apparently if you can get the weight to 20Kg the price drops huge, for example if I would have ordered 3 the shipping cost per unit would have only been about $50 per unit, that sure beats $100+ for just one.

As mentioned it was a custom configuration and came in just the right perfect size as promised.



I am impressed with the way it is made, the assortment of connections, and the way it was packaged for shipment. It took me so long to get through all the foam inserts and bubble wrap you'd think it was a Ming Vase.
For the price it may as well be ;-}

I also found a supplier called Harmond Mfg. for what looks to be the perfect Trike case for the battery, lights and other electronics so only the motor, throttle, and light control wires come out, and a 110V standard power cord socket for the battery charger power cord.



If you recall, this box will go between the top of the back trike frame and the bottom of the basket which means top and bottom mounting hardware.

It is a 'turtle shell' case meaning it is box with a flat lid, or in my case flat bottom, that attaches with screws.
They come in aluminum or steel, powder coated black or unfinished so I went black steel, if I want to weld anything on it I can with my Mig welder but it will be harder for me to make my cutouts.

They are pricey little buggers for just one 'plain Jane' case as their business is not retail, it is all US basic product and custom manufacturing in Cheektowaga, NY and if you ever find yourself looking to take a project to volume that requires an enclosure look for companies like Hammond Manufacturing Co, Inc. right here in good 'ole USA.

My case isn't even here yet and I don't want to sound like a frigg'n factory commercial, I just want to share the shear pleasure it has been conducting an E-mail conversation about what I am looking for and why with pictures, parameters, etc to just another American Guy I could clearly understand and relate to.

As I used pic examples of what I have done for reference and asked him to see if they made anything generic to fit this Trike need he, like any of us here, got totally intrigued with motorized bicycles and we still talk motorized bicycles in mail and he said in a recent one that all the people in the office went through my web site and got a bit of bug so if any of you NY motorized bicycle builders it might be prime time for a Craigs List ad.

Sorry, I rambled on, TMI one guy calls it, but they all lead to the last page in the book and an ending.
I got the sample case delivered absolutely free ;-}

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With the battery being half the width and length of the case and an inch thinner I can fit it in just dandy with room to spare any way want like this.



Next up is to pick the rear facing lights and connection holes as Harmond can pre-punch everything I want in advance in orders of like 10 or more for not much more per case.

More when I get the case on Wednesday the 6th unless you have any suggestions for lights I can use to light the back of the trike up like a Christmas tree and they function with a 36V supply in the same box.
I can always reduce voltage with extra parts and time but I'd just as soon make it easy.

I am thinking a pair of those oval red 12V running lights truckers put on their trailers, and then something wide and blinking yellow in the middle in series.

I am also considering brake lights and turn signals but like a new cars options that would cost extra from the base kit price for sale but I figure I might as well see just how far I can take this one even if it means taking a loss, besides I am only in this whole motorized bicycle business because I get to be creative again ;-}

I knew I had topic here about this build, I should have looked before I posted a new topic but just to keep it all in one topic...

Short of the dual 1200 Lumen CREE C5 headlights and some cosmetic button up work in the morning the Electric 7-speed Shifting Adult Kent Bayside Trike with Universal Control Box is done.

The Harmond Mfg. component case worked perfect.
It has a flat plate and then the one piece cover.
I mounted the flat plate to the bike frame with 4 bolts and then all the components to it.



The controller had 4 mount points to the case bottom but we just used what metal plates we had in the shop to mount the charger and battery. The production model will have custom nice ones with quick release.



You can see the charger end for AC in and fan are mounted up flush to the front edge.
The top case was cut to allow 1/2" 90° inner tabs for a clean folded groove for the charger to be exposed and a weather proof rocker arm switch was attached for the rear lights.



The production model will need some sort of weather proof door/cover for that exposed part to make the whole box weather proof but it doesn't get any easier than just plugging a universal power cord into it to charge it and when the fan turns off it's charged, and about a pound putting the charger in the box works perfect.

The rear sports 3 after market weatherproof 12V incandescent trailer running lights, a center amber flanked by two red lights wired in series to use the 36V battery via the light switch and it lights up like a Christmas tree.



The basket is mounted to the top of the case with the stock mounting bar and 2 bolts and is actually more sturdy sitting on the case than straddling the frame.

All in all the entire pre-production Universal Trike Box model exceeded my expectations in every way and I can't wait to button it up and do some torture test riding ;-}

GearNut said:

That is a really nice trike, KC!
I too like how the Harmond box fits the size requirements. It is as if Harmond made it for this application.

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Actually I had a typo, it is Hammod Manufacturing Co, Inc in NY and my rep Tom has been great.

I sent him some pics and just got an e-mail from him concerning custom case bulk pricing and he sent me this:
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KC,

That looks really good. Most people use those chassis for tube guitar amps, but it seems to work really well for electric trikes too!

In order to come up with a quote on the custom work, I’ll need to see a drawing from you which shows the exact cutouts required. Everything will be punched out while they are still in a flat sheet, so it doesn’t add too much cost per unit as long as we already have the tools required to do the specific punches. In general, round holes and rectangles are no problem and I think that is mostly what you need.

Our normal minimum is 25 units per shipment, but we’ll do 10 at a premium price to cover factory overhead.

Send me a drawing and I’ll throw together some numbers for you so you can put together your presentation.
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I am good with that ;-}

The bike as a whole looks like a factory build, even though it is your prototype.
Very well done, sir!

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Thanks bud, and making something factory made looking and functioning was the goal and I think I got pretty close with the first prototype I just got 'buttoned up'.









Now for some test rides ;-}

Well that was a really fun long ride!



Ya that's me. I am 6'2" to give you an idea of the size of the trike, and yes, I always wear a helmet even if it is for little rides on a trike.

Here is another shot of the drive train and the front of the box.



Note that was before I rode it up to the hardware store on it and got 10" of that black corrugated black plastic wire shield to put around the motor wires.
I like all the guys at my local Ace, they came out marveled at this latest build and just gave me that 10" of plastic hehehe ;-}

The 7-speed derailleur needs some final adjustments but she scoots right along over 25MPH in 7th but so torquey it wants to pop wheelies in the lower gears so you have to mind the throttle.

The brakes are outstanding as well, better than I expected, I about went over the handlebars when I tested an emergency stop. I suspect that is due it having 24" wheels.

Anyway one **** of a stable cargo carrying all purpose adult trike and I'm grinning ear to ear ;-}

killercanuck said:

Really looks great man! Are you thinking of some fenders at some point?

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Duooh (head smack) The chrome front fender for it is sitting right here and I forgot to put it on!

The box looks really trick, and production worthy, onboard charger is a nice touch. They make nice low profile outdoor plug covers. The spring loaded ones, one of those would be perfect because the cable would hold it open for proper fan airflow, eh?

Looked around a bit, this one is nice'n low profile:

Found that on this site, but is just an example.

The rear lights are a nice touch too. Keep up the good work, it really shows how much you love building

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I like the spring cover idea, I'll look into that as it will need something.

Yes, the case isn't cheesy sheet metal it is nice steel or I can go thick aluminum.
I am also considering another panel switch next to the rear lights on/off switch to change between solid on (for night) and strobe like the front (for daylight) rear lights but that may be tricky, it is 36V supply with three 12V lights in series so a 12V car blinker module won't work I don't think.

I am also looking at an even beefier 40A continuous, 36V, 26.4Ah battery for the boxes to extend the range even more from the same place in my same custom layout as there are no 'stock' batteries with the power these have in with my dimensions.

All in all this was a fun customer paid project I hope to grow into a marketable item I can actually make money on as I lost actual money on this build but worth it see what I could do, get real world costs, and of course get the pics ;-}

Thanks guys ;-}

fasteddy said:

With a 26.4Ah battery you should be good for a whole lot of riding.
What would you think the range is with the one you bought?
Steve.

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To understand how a battery pack works you need to understand how they are made.

For comparison take a typical 12V Lead Acid car battery, it is made up of 6 2V LA cells in series, hence the 6 fill holes.

A 36V pack is made up of 10 4.2V cells in series for 42V (aka 36V) called a 'bank'.
For 24V it is 6 cells in series, and for 48V it is 12 in series for a 'bank'.

To make a battery more powerful you put multiple 'banks' in parallel.
The more banks in parallel you have, the higher the current but more importantly the total charge it will hold.

My pack has 120 2C NCM Cells, 12 parallel banks @ 10 cells per bank.
That gives my pack 40A continuous 36V, 26.4Ah, but at a size and weight cost. It weighs 13 pounds and pretty big, all 120 cells are packed in vertically like a cigarette pack with a 120 fat cigs in it ;-}

I prefer to think of how long a battery will run in hours over miles as the bike itself, terrain, speed, gears and air resistance all play a part in actual miles ridden but I can tell you this so far...

I rode it about 1/2 an hour Thursday with all lights on and when I got home I turned off the motor but left the rear lights (3 12V incandescent bulbs in series) on over night (25 hours) then rode it for 1/2 an hour again and it still said fully charged. When my wife got home she took it for a ride around the block then so did I, it still showed and rode like a full charge!

I plugged it in after that to see how long topping it off would take and it was charging for an hour before I got distracted...
My wife came home with 3 Filet Minion steaks, 2 Lobster Tails and some fresh Asparagus for dinner and I forgot about the charger but it is fully charged this morning ;-}

I figure on this trike at least a 30 mile range (that was my spec) but depending on how you use the gears it could actually be much more than that. One thing is for sure, my 'Christmas Tree' tail lights are a non-factor.

Speaking of the tail lights I hope to be able to keep it here a few more days and install a second switch on the box to switch between steady on for night riding and blink mode for daytime operation like the front light as steady on in daylight is not much of an attention grabber and that is whole point.

One more note about these batteries I didn't know until today...
Lithium cells are best stored at 1/2 charge for prolonged life and recharge ability, it has something to do with the actual chemistry of the battery that is over my head but other then having a switch to change charging voltage it seems best to not charge the battery right away after a ride and plug it in a couple of hours before you want to ride it but again, I just don't know for sure, that is just what Paul EV3 told me.