Velocars and other interesting vehicles.

moto-klasika · Jan 28, 2015

Annie,

Just as I managed to forget on my old and strong love for steam-engines - you put new woods under fire! To have light motrocycle powered on steam - wonderful, even better if that it is velocar!

On the first film, there is moped wiht light steam equipment wiht so-called flash-boiler... They are good because do not need big reservoir with extremly hot water and steam under dangerous pressure, but make steam in coil-tube over flame: just enough of it for engine to work! Quite complicated to design, but simple to build by good plans... Often is used for flying RC models!

Zoran

moto-klasika · Jan 28, 2015

... and a few more photos with light steam-powered vehicles!

Problem - quite difficult to get understanding and approvment from officials!

Z.

Intrepid Wheelwoman · Jan 28, 2015

Apparently this Kiwi bloke uses his steam bicycle on the road.....

http://www.stuff.co.nz/oddstuff/5811023/Pedals-yield-to-steam-machine

moto-klasika · Jan 29, 2015

moto-klasika said:
...two interesting video-clips could be found on this web-site:

http://yle.fi/elavaarkisto/artikkelit/kinneri_oli_kesan_1949_hitti_96751.html#media=96749

Zoran

-----------------------------------------------------

Annie,

You are right, as always in such cases - those videos are well-known, but still nice to watch... It amused me how kids enjoy in thier racing, with fun and serious job in the same time. Most of 3-wheelers had bicycle's style front suspension/steering, with original or DIY made "U-forks"... (turned upside-down U, my favourite system)

I couldn't find anything more about cute white velocar, but found a few other "kinneri" velocars...

Ciao,
Zoran

moto-klasika · Jan 29, 2015

Intrepid Wheelwoman said:
Apparently this Kiwi bloke uses his steam bicycle on the road.....

http://www.stuff.co.nz/oddstuff/5811023/Pedals-yield-to-steam-machine

----------------------------------

[FONT=Arial Unicode MS, sans-serif]... some of my older memories about production of steam-stuff! [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial Unicode MS, sans-serif]Some 7 years ago, my internet friend from Oregon, USA, came to Belgrade for one-month visit (pleasure and business). That was after a few years of internet friendship and negotiations about production of all steam stuff in Serbia and exporting them to USA for further selling... That included steam engines, boilers, equipment and complete steam-boats, from 6 up to 10 meters long. I found all necessary workshops for production of everything needed. There were a pair of companies registered for building attested boilers of any types and sizes... Unfortunately, nothing of all that – he decided to retired and only sell plans – no too much work, no expenses, no risk, small profit by piece but generally quite well.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial Unicode MS, sans-serif]For road vehicle: there should be long and expensive path to be covered! Attesting of entire steam-complete, especially according to restriction of power: 4 Kilowatts (light 3-wheeler or quadricycle) or up to 15 Kilowatts (heavy 3-wheeler or quadricycle)... Problem with steam engines is that they could rise power almost without restriction above nominal power (higher pressure and higher temperature) – up to mechanical possibilities of engine to accept higher revolutions... So, some institute nominated for testing and attesting – should ask for system of control of revolutions that can't be “tuned”. Long process and expensive... Then testing and attesting entire vehicle for road use, including restriction of speed! Again, too long and too expensive...[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial Unicode MS, sans-serif]Steam-engines: the most desirable and romantic, but expensive and complicated in techical and financial way![/FONT]
[FONT=Arial Unicode MS, sans-serif]Gasoline engines: the simpelst and cheapest solution![/FONT]
[FONT=Arial Unicode MS, sans-serif]Electric-motors: socially and legally the most acceptable![/FONT]
[FONT=Arial Unicode MS, sans-serif]Hybrid: the most practical, with good balance and compromise using componets from both worlds (gasoline & electricity)...
[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial Unicode MS, sans-serif]Zoran[/FONT]

wheelbender6 · Jan 30, 2015

Doesn't look like it, but this Toyota concept has four wheels. A lot of electronics on here that do not inspire me, but I love the canopy.
-When parked, the canopy seals the cockpit and it resembles a velomobile.
-For riding, the canopy is opened and it functions as a large wind screen.
More info at the link.
http://www.topspeed.com/cars/toyota/2014-toyota-fv2-ar167299.html

Intrepid Wheelwoman · Jan 30, 2015

I like the shape when it's folded down WB, but with the windshield raised not so much.
By the look of the second picture it's useful for scaring horses

Intrepid Wheelwoman · Jan 30, 2015

Zoran, I like this steam powered mobility scooter

I know it's actually built on a mower chassis, but it looks more like a mobility scooter to my eyes. Now that would really wow them at pensioner gatherings.

Thank you for sharing your memories and experience with steam Zoran. According to my copy of 'The Veteran Years of New Zealand Motoring' we had our own fair share of early experimenters and backyard builders, including the occasional steamcar builder, but then of course around 1905 the various local county councils decided to ruin everyone's fun by enacting traffic regulations (sigh)

I think builders of steam powered vehicles here in New Zealand who live in rural areas such as the gentleman in my earlier post make use of the fact that certain roads in certain places are mostly deserted and the Police are rarely seen. I know on occasion at various times of my life I've made use of this fact and no doubt before I eventually get 'promoted to glory' shall continue to do so.

A high sense of self preservation has kept me away from any experiments with traditional firetube boilers, but the design of flash boiler based on long lengths of copper tube coiled into interesting shapes seems to be a much safer choice and much more possible.
Don't worry though Zoran, I have a feeling that my children will prevent me from doing anything too daft. Yesterday my daughter was very busy working on an e.bike controller and saying something about changing chips on the main circuit board. I know she would like it a lot if I was to show more interest in electric vehicles instead of 50+ year old engines that are good for laying smoke screens

Allen_Wrench · Jan 31, 2015

I wish I'd taken a picture of the wood burning pickup truck that drives around this neighborhood sometimes. It runs on wood gas, like some cars were retrofitted to do back in WWII. It's not real fast; so I should be able to get a good pic next time I see it.

moto-klasika · Jan 31, 2015

wheelbender6 said:
Doesn't look like it, but this Toyota concept has four wheels. A lot of electronics on here that do not inspire me, but I love the canopy.
-When parked, the canopy seals the cockpit and it resembles a velomobile.
-For riding, the canopy is opened and it functions as a large wind screen.
More info at the link.
http://www.topspeed.com/cars/toyota/2014-toyota-fv2-ar167299.html

-----------------------------------

Hello WB,

Quite interesting and modern concept of diamond chassis in a variant of tilting vehicle (leaning at curves and corners). I doubt if it is more then motto-salon presentation of non-working model? Most of the photos and videos are computer simulations. Anyway, I would like to have one for testing when/if it become real... Maybe it could be made at home in much simpler variant?

Zoran

moto-klasika · Jan 31, 2015

P.S.: It is quite big for single-seat vehicle?
Z.

moto-klasika · Jan 31, 2015

Intrepid Wheelwoman said:
Zoran, I like this steam powered mobility scooter

I know it's actually built on a mower chassis, but it looks more like a mobility scooter to my eyes. Now that would really wow them at pensioner gatherings.

Thank you for sharing your memories and experience with steam Zoran. According to my copy of 'The Veteran Years of New Zealand Motoring' we had our own fair share of early experimenters and backyard builders, including the occasional steamcar builder, but then of course around 1905 the various local county councils decided to ruin everyone's fun by enacting traffic regulations (sigh)
I think builders of steam powered vehicles here in New Zealand who live in rural areas such as the gentleman in my earlier post make use of the fact that certain roads in certain places are mostly deserted and the Police are rarely seen. I know on occasion at various times of my life I've made use of this fact and no doubt before I eventually get 'promoted to glory' shall continue to do so.

A high sense of self preservation has kept me away from any experiments with traditional firetube boilers, but the design of flash boiler based on long lengths of copper tube coiled into interesting shapes seems to be a much safer choice and much more possible.
Don't worry though Zoran, I have a feeling that my children will prevent me from doing anything too daft. Yesterday my daughter was very busy working on an e.bike controller and saying something about changing chips on the main circuit board. I know she would like it a lot if I was to show more interest in electric vehicles instead of 50+ year old engines that are good for laying smoke screens

---------------------------------

[FONT=Arial Unicode MS, sans-serif]Annie,[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial Unicode MS, sans-serif]Pensioner meeting should go in crazy direction if I appeared with such steam-powered "scooter"! [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial Unicode MS, sans-serif]Unfortunately, my steam-plans disappeared as steam-dreams! The same was happened with our plans to build half-a-dozen of hybrid-powered three-wheelers in Belgrade and send them to Oregon. As with steam stuff I organized everything, but cooperation was abounded from US side... [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial Unicode MS, sans-serif]--- ---[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial Unicode MS, sans-serif]Here in Swiss, there are not abounded and deserted areas where any kind of alternative vehicles should be used. Every piece of land is used and regulated. Often we couldn't find place to park auto for some time, one side of the road – not to mention any field or nice place in woods... So, if finance and some other issues permit – juts something according to regulations and standards could be made, with juts a little of innocent and not immoral cheating...[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial Unicode MS, sans-serif]--- ---[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial Unicode MS, sans-serif]I like electric-power because of its good points and its social accepting – not too much care about ecology and so-called “global worming”... To insignificant subject to be afraid of my negative “foot-prints”. The same saving money driving electric-vehicles is nonsense if they are a few times more expensive then my new Citroen C-1. I use to spent 60 $$$ per month driving it a lot across and around Bern – so, spending much less isn't serious improvement?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial Unicode MS, sans-serif]Depending on batteries, even not far away from home – quite annoying feeling! Therefore, some thoughts about hybrid-power could be practical way... Serial hybrid (gasoline generator >>> batteries >>> electric-motor >>> power to wheels) should be legally acceptable, but later modified to parallel hybrid (power by gasoline engine and/or electric-motor) – should be effective![/FONT]

[FONT=Arial Unicode MS, sans-serif]Ciao,[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial Unicode MS, sans-serif]Zoran[/FONT]

moto-klasika · Jan 31, 2015

Allen_Wrench said:
I wish I'd taken a picture of the wood burning pickup truck that drives around this neighborhood sometimes. It runs on wood gas, like some cars were retrofitted to do back in WWII. It's not real fast; so I should be able to get a good pic next time I see it.

---------------------------------------------------

[FONT=Arial Unicode MS, sans-serif]Hello Allen,[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial Unicode MS, sans-serif]It would be interested to see photos of that truck! As I understand technique of wood-generators, they are more effective with heavy and thirsty vehicles, that covered a lot miles (hours of work). For small engines and vehicles – I couldn't be sure. They are mostly used when there was restriction of gasoline... [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial Unicode MS, sans-serif]Beside engine and vehicle we should make generator (which isn't too expensive). As I know - energy value of such gas is ½ of LPG? I couldn't find video with Serbian Yugo modified to work on gas-generator, but attached is a pair of photos. There are a pair with Swiss experiment, too!
[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial Unicode MS, sans-serif]This is article about Serbian Yugo:[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial Unicode MS, sans-serif]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial Unicode MS, sans-serif]http://freeweb.deltha.hu/zastava.in.hu/wood-gas.htm [/FONT]

… [FONT=Arial Unicode MS, sans-serif]and, one on light trailer that could be used for velocar propulsion:

http://www.das-holzgas-projekt.de/page2.php[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial Unicode MS, sans-serif]
[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial Unicode MS, sans-serif]For sure that there could be found a lot of information on Internet for construction of one. Good points that they are not so sophisticated and could be built easilly at home-workshop. Then, they are not too dangerous (for sure not to be used in closed spaces), with quite tolerant way of use... Bad – big and heavy a lot![/FONT]

[FONT=Arial Unicode MS, sans-serif]Ciao,[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial Unicode MS, sans-serif]Zoran[/FONT]

silverbear · Jan 31, 2015

For anyone interested there is a good internet forum on yahoo groups for woodgas... lots of interesting information there.

A very sensible application of wood gas was for running a sawmill where the waste from milling produced the wood gas to run the engines. For some places, such as where I live in the Superior National Forest, wood is the most abundant source of energy available and is virtually free.

A lot of progress has been made in woodgas production since the days of WWII.
SB

Ludwig II · Jan 31, 2015

Now, this is sold in Britain, probably made in /china or India. Cheaply. What else is out there, I wonder?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Stationar...K_BOI_FarmingEquipment_RL&hash=item566ca071eb

Intrepid Wheelwoman · Jan 31, 2015

1938 Sachs with woodgas generator.

Now that's an interesting find Ludwig. Being an old gold mining and timber sawmilling district there are lots of things like that around here. Unfortunately trendy airheads like to put them in their gardens and leave them to rust as 'garden art'.

silverbear · Jan 31, 2015

Intrepid Wheelwoman said:
1938 Sachs with woodgas generator.

Now that's an interesting find Ludwig. Being an old gold mining and timber sawmilling district there are lots of things like that around here. Unfortunately trendy airheads like to put them in their gardens and leave them to rust as 'garden art'.

That Sachs engine looks like a model 1932, which is what I have on my Indian Hiawatha tri-car. That's a 2 stroke at 98cc with a build in 2 speed transmission. I wonder how the lubrication of the wood gas was dealt with... how do you mix that with oil? That's a nice, small wood gas producer. Pretty cool!
SB

Intrepid Wheelwoman · Jan 31, 2015

silverbear said:
That Sachs engine looks like a model 1932, which is what I have on my Indian Hiawatha tri-car. That's a 2 stroke at 98cc with a build in 2 speed transmission. I wonder how the lubrication of the wood gas was dealt with... how do you mix that with oil? That's a nice, small wood gas producer. Pretty cool!
SB

Ever since I found that photo Silverbear I've been wondering the same thing myself. So far I haven't really thought of a sufficiently reliable way to do it.

Intrepid Wheelwoman · Jan 31, 2015

More wood gas for motorcycles......

Intrepid Wheelwoman · Jan 31, 2015

I think this is the oil tank for the oiling system. Still none too sure how the oiling system works though.

Velocars and other interesting vehicles.

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