why I love friction drive

[deacon]

I got to thinking today about why I love friction drive so much. One doesn't have to be real smart to build a friction drive bicycle. God knows I'm not real smart mechanically anyway. While building bicycles i have used chain drive kits and even chain drive pieces and found them woefully lacking. Not the system their adaptability to my area and fat butt.

I have burned up two e-bike motors by over volting them. Both were chain drive. I have used lots and lots of motors over volted motors with friction drive and they just skip over the wheel when put under too much strain. That's what killed all the motors they just over heated trying to pull the load (my fat butt again) up a hill. In the case of a friction drive, they just slide over the wheel. Yes they do some damage to the tire, but not as much as you think. Even I know when i hear the skid noise, that it is time to back off the throttle.

With friction drive the only clutch you really have to have is to lift the motor when it goes into idle. The old bike bug is the prime example of that. Just pick the whole thing up off the wheel. I expect that sometime this spring, if not sooner, I will buy one of those kits with the fancy friction drive in the channel housing. I most likely will eventually have to lock the clutch thing down and just create a lift for it as well. Hopefully not but, I ain't all that worried if I do. So give me a good ole friction drive any day.

 

[deacon]

today I bought a motor on ebay. this one actually...Bumble Bee Gas Powered Bicycle Motor - eBay (item 120673514072 end time Jan-25-11 12:13:13 PST)

Now I'm sure you are wondering why I am in DIY with a piece of crap kit motor. WELL it's like this. The motor is most likely 25cc which where i live would be a lot like walking fast. They say on the website that it will cruise between 5 and 28mph depending on the geography. I live in High Point NC. Guess which one it is most likely to be.

Fortunately I have a lot of ebike stuff laying around and a little experience with it. I'm pretty sure this is a rear mount motor, so I need to devise a front mount Emotor to help out on the hills. A couple of things of Interest I have learned is that the Emotor at 24v does not need a controller. So to boost the gasoline engines performance on the hills, I just need to flip a switch until I get to the top, then turn it off. I have some motors with clutches so there will be no drag to speak off pushing them around. I was never bothered by the slow cruising speeds of the bikes, just the uphill thing and of course the range.

So maybe with the gasoline bike for the range, and the e drive to kick it up the hills, I will have a decent system. I can kill the gasoline engine if I need stealth. I am at least going to have some fun playing with this thing whatever it turns into.

 

[deacon]

This is the company's web site.http://bumblebeebolton.com/ His mounting bracket is so much like the weed whackers that shoes and I built it isn't funny. We used hinges he is using a pin, We used springs and turn buckles he is using a bungee cord. We used cables to lift the motor he is using a handle. Not much really different here. I want to see how his motor is setup though. That will be interesting.

I expect that i can use the same e motor setup that I use now only put it on the front as buildabeast has done. I expect that i will pull a trailer even though I won't need very big batteries i hope. It should be a fun bike. We shall see

 

[deacon]

While I'm waiting for the rear wheel drive bumbling bee, I am working on my front wheel e drive. The mythical Gordo will have one horn on the front, and a tumor or carbuncle on rear. Ah the feared Gordo will also drag a trailer with batteries behind it. It will truly be an ugly beast. At least that is the current plan.

The front wheel drive is proving to be a bit more frustrating than I thought. I don't have the exact motor I should so I'm having to adapt one of my existing motors. I could hang it on the side as i always do but on a front wheel that is truly a pain in the backside. I want to get it at least close to centered above the front wheel.

It is raining in North Carolina today, so it will be a good shop day. Not that there is a bad shop day when one is retired.

 

[solokumba]

I wonder if my wife would actually ride a bike with a friction drive.
For some reason, she thinks the china girl modification is a death trap.
Looks too much like a motorcycle or something.

 

[deacon]

Mine won't ride any kind of bike but it's less about the death trap than physical problems. Now the electrics I build have no range, but they will fool you. They are quiet, and they don't zoom. Mine, with a lot of juice, will get up to about 20mph on the flat. At the motor's recommended voltage on a hill I could get off and push it as fast as it will pull alone, but you can pedal and significant increase the speed.

If I hadn't won the cheapo, I was going to buy the 40cc daemon. From having run a 31cc ryobi weed eater and a 42cc chain saw a couple of times, before I broke the drive shaft, I would say the daemon 40cc would do about 30 on a flat with a average weight adult on it. I'm a bit heavier so all bets are off. It should climb a reasonable hill at about 20 or so which is pretty good I would think. Someone else may have real experience with that motor I really don't.

I got my front wheel drive electric motor installed. Since it is raining I will wire it this afternoon and hope to test it sometime this week. Since my plan is to only use it as a supercharger, I just hooked it to an on/off switch.

Here is how I hope it will work. I hope i can cruise on the flat at about twenty mph with the 25cc gasoline engine. Then when I hit a significant hill, which my town is full of, I will just turn on the electric front wheel drive. With 24vs, the torque should be significant. So maybe between the 25cc spewing fumes, and the 24v spewing ozone, maybe I can keep the physical exertion to a minimum, but I really don't mind applying some sweat power. My problem with sweat power isnt the one block hill, its the ten block hills we have in my town. Those just take it out of my heart and lungs. I run out of air after pumping a couple of blocks.

I am hoping the combination of all will give me some really good range on the electric motor and some help for the gasoline motor. If this works pretty well and if I can go back and find out how comfortable shoes mounted her weed whackers, I can crank these out anytime I blow up something on one of them.\

I'm also guessing I can turn the emotor on, the drop the 25cc and start it that way. My own electric starter lol...

 

[deacon]

I managed to get an indoor test made of the wiring for the electric motor. II might have the tension on the drive wheel too tight but it does turn and it does pull the bike along. I like to have them barely touching to save the power, but this one is a bit more than that. I'm going to try to ride it tomorrow and check it out. I don't want the tension so tight that it drags excessively on the gasoline motor. It is a small motor I'm sure, so I want to get the tension reasonably light.

 

[deacon]

The gordo bike has the front wheel drive mounted, wired and the prelim test done. The conclusion was that I have too much tension on the front wheel drive. That I'm going to fix tomorrow probably. I did want to show you some of the spare no expense features of the Gordo bike.

The fully equiped delux Gordo model sans gasoline engine.

A shot of the high end 24v electric motor with worlds classiest roller drive. Sorry you can't get a close up shot of the fabulous welding work.

A shot of the highly professional wiring harness.. not the white loop hanging over the side that is the high dollar kill switch. if the bike runs away I jerk on it and it creates a gap in the wiring. guaranteed to shut er down.

 

[deacon]

I put my trailer from the rhino bike on with a 24v power pack for the test. It ran about like I expect a 24v motor to run not very strong, but as a super charger for the 25v it might work fine. I do have to move the on off switch to the handlebars. I have it on the top bar now and that is too clumsy. Hey that's why i do test rides.

The main purpose of adding the gasoline engine is for the range. I really think a 36v 500 watt ebike is a pretty good bike over all. I think to get reasonable performance it takes way to much money to put one together. This bike is going to be a tribred I hope. Gas electric and human power sources. It wont be the first but it will be My first.

 

[deacon]

I did some more test rides with just the electric drive. I found that the emotor on the front wheel could be a problem when it isn't running. I don't want to run it all the time because I want to save the power for when I need the extra on hills. So I plan to run it with the gasoline drive most of the time.

That being the case I pulled the motor from the front wheel, and attached it to the front fork with a heavy duty hinge. instead of tying it down on the sides like I usually do, I added a tension bar in the middle of the front crossbar. I can lift the motor and hook it off the wheel for when I ride the bike on gasoline, then if I need it, I can lower the motor and add a few electric revs to the mix. It should be an interesting bike. of course I will most likely ride it into a bus while trying to balance all the power sources.

 

[deacon]

The bumble bee motor and mount came today. I have a total of 60 bucks in it so i expected to do some work on it. I had to put the controls back on the bike. The accelerator cable was off so I had to figure out where it went and then how to rig it since the keeper screw was missing. My decision was to find a screw just a little smaller coat everything with super glue then stick it together. So far it is holding. I chucked the throttle and cable. I never could make them work. I put a brake cable on it, god know when you build with junker bikes you have lots of parts laying around. I also rigged a air cleaner from junk around the shop.

Then I tackled the drive wheel. It was a hard rubber cylinder about and inch in diameter. I decided since Gordo is a triple powered hybrid, I would go with a larger drive wheel on the gasoline engine. since I had a skateboard wheel laying about I just swapped it for the much smaller drive wheel from the bike.

Now you are going to tell me and rightly so that a wheel that big is fine to run down the road but it isn't going to climb a hill at all. I agree so i'm going to see if the electric motor won't add enough to the mix to help it up the hills. I have a lift on it so that it will not be dragging on the wheel until I need to use it. It would really be nice if I didn't need it.

I have three issues with Gordo at the moment. I need to resolve them before I take off down the road with it. The bumble bee engine has a bad kill switch. I tried it and the wire is dead so it's the wiring back to the bike. Since I can lift the motor. I can reach back and kill it with the choke so that isn't an urgent fix.

The lift handle is missing so I need to fabricate one of those. That is a minor issue but one that has to be resolved. Also I need something to put tension on the drive wheel. I have this whole two motor + trailer thing going working with a 20" test bike I have been using for Emotor builds. This is going to be a trip for sure.

Now I need to work on a lift handle. If the bumble bee engine and mount work okay on this bike without too much need for assistance, I might find a bike with gears that I can stick it on. The human power curve would be much better with a set of six or so gears.

 

[deacon]

pics of gordo with both power sources loaded still don't have the trailer attached but it's coming next.

overview of gordo.... delux version of course...

bumble bee engine

Edrive

 

[deacon]

okay worlds ugliest bike but hey that me...

 

[deacon]

Now I know that I know this but I forgot. If you are reading t his and happen to have a minute remind and old man. The bumble bee calls for 50/1 mix and I have a gallon of 40/1 premix I'm going to run. I know what to do to fix it, but if I just run it like it is. I seem to remember that it will smoke and be a little less powerful. Is that about right. I plan to give it a try later today even though it isn't really ready yet. It's close enough.

 

[deacon]

So the weather here is beautiful. It hit sixty today I think. I got the gas motor running. It is about thirty cc i think. It isn't marked but it runs like that. I had some real problems with it. The epart ran great but I couldn't get the gasoline engine to run right for the longest time. First I had to adjust the high end on the carburator. It probably still needs that fuel mix adjusted but it runs now.

If you ever want to change to a skateboard wheel be careful. The one I got was so soft that the drag wouldn't let the engine pull no matter what. I think the boarders call it sticky. I switched it for a metal drive wheel I used on an old engine I had back in the day and it took right off. The problem now is that it is a gap motor. It pushes the bike uphill faster than I can pedal the one speed it is on. I need to start looking for a larger multi geared bike for it. It's going to run at least as good as any 24v motor I ever used. It might need a little help later on, but I'm going to go with the larger multi speed bike first, then decide if I need to add some torque via the ebike motor. I have one in reserve that will work I know on the front wheel.

 

[deacon]

I got the tension right and the bike ran really nice. Right up till it threw me into the curb and off the bike I flew. I had no idea I could fly. The flight was great fun, the landing not so much. When I came down the bike was running wild and gas was pouring out. I was a little worried at that point. But alls well. I got a couple of scrapes and probably a bruised rib. I did some damage to my toe as well.nothing bleeding and no bones showing so I think I'll live. I might find some heavy duty pain meds laying around.but I doubt it. Thats the problem with not getting hurt very often all the good drugs get gone.

Okay now for the important stuff. I hit the curb a glancing blow so the wheel is okay I think. When I got home I reattached the gas lines and primed the car and off she went. I guarantee you two thing will happen before I ride ole Gordo again. I will get a bigger bike with gears to haul that engine around and two I rig a easier to use lock up device. That one was an accident waiting to happen and I didn't disappoint.

I did love the smell of gasoline as it poured from the tank and the roar of the engine as it ran wild. Too bad I don't have a video of it all. Wonder why this didn't happen when the top speed of the bike was about five miles an hour. No it has to wait till it was doing at least 15 to 20 at least I was off the gas trying to get the motor locked up when I hit that curb.

Too bad I quit drinking. this would be a great excuse to have one.

 

[deacon]

I fixed a lift mechanism that I hope won't get me thrown from the bike again. This one is a simple leave with a locking device as part of it. I pull back on the leave and the motor raises and if I pull far enough back the motor locks in an upright position. It just cables and levers I should have done it when the bike was wobbling while I tried to use the manufactures designed one. Oh well when I get a chance I will find a larger bike with gears in the meantime this one will work just fine I think. I still have my friction drive ebike if this one dies...

I will be testing the bumble bee engine but I can tell you now the motor mount is solid and heavy guage.. and the motor still runs after god only knows how many hours on it. With the better tension on the motor during my last test ride, the bike did really well. I probably ran close to my friction drive 36v ebike performance wise. That is all I was hoping for... Once I get some more tests in, I can get a better idea of how I like being back with the stick of gasoline. I have to admit I like the noise better than the quiet of the ebike.

 

[deacon]

So this morning I am a heck of a lot more mobile than I expected, so I walked a mile and a half, then went out and bought the pieces for a new drive wheel. Since I didn't get killed I need a faster bike of course. What I picked up was a 1" id galvanized pipe nipple 2.5 inches long. I also picked up a hand full of fender washers the same size as my bolt that holds the drive wheel in place. The fender washers are a hair larger than the od of the pipe nipple. The washers are 1.25' so i just put some jb weld to a couple of the washers for each end of the pipe. Then I fitted them to the nipple, ran a bolt through and put a nut on to let it all dry. When it is secure just enough to hold it in place while I run the bolt through to hold it to the engine with tension it will be ready to test. I am trying to keep this thing in balance so I'm not welding it. My welding is a joke.

The outside of the drive will be 1.22' or so. I think that is a pretty good diameter...It is just a little larger than the drive on it now, so I might have to redo the lift cable. The basic design for the lift and cable is one Comfortable Shoes and I used to use back in the day, so it has some history and is pretty safe. I have definitely learned my lesson, Get it right before you test it. Tweaking is one thing, testing a half finished bike is something else.

PS. I dropped into the kit build section just to look around today. One of the things I do when I get frustrated with the friction drive build. It's so nice not to have all those worries in addition to the ones I have with friction drive. I always feel lucky when I see what those guys go through, and they have some idea of what they are doing, unlike me.

 

[deacon]

When repairing the motor I had forgotten that the gas take came loose. I remembered it in the middle of the night so I made a mental note to fix it today. I can't believe that I remembered it. When the build these things they used some really odd ball parts. One of them was a rubber band (not the office depot type) to hold the gas tank in place. Now I have to rig something. That kit I didn't buy looks better all the time. Not really I do enjoy the challenge. I swear it keeps my mind from turning to mush.

That was easier than I thought. I found a spot to secure it with a bungee cord. As my friend and competitor used to say when one of us made a really special picture and someone tried to talk about how talented we were, "Sometimes you just have to get lucky..."

 

[deacon]

I picked up a 10 speed huffy at the Salvation Army store yesterday. It had a lot wrong with it but they sold it to me cheap. I took a long look to make sure I had all the parts laying about to fix it before i sprung for the ten bucks. I know what a spendthrift I am.

The first thing I did was to change the handle bars. Those flat handle bars do a number on my back. I need to sit up straight. So I removed all the controls and changed the bars for a set of bmx type I had laying about. The front brake was gone completely so I picked one off the floor that had all the parts already together then bolted the whole thing on, after I moved the rear shifter from the right side of the bike to the left. The front shifter had long since been removed which was fine with me. The rear gears are plenty for me.

The brake and rear shifter cable were new so I just relocated the brake and shifter to the new bike. Then I mounted the engine. I was pleased to find that style mount, which is the same as the ones on the new friction drive kits, are not in the way of old style caliper brakes. That means I can use one of the new kits on junk bikes. Which makes the kits more appealing to me.

I had to modify the bumble bee kits a little. For one thing It needed a good lift which it didn't have. So rather than drill the frame this time, I attached the lever to a square metal tube then attached the tube to the top of the bike frame with hose clamps. It works just fine I am happy to add. I use a loop of brake cable as the lock down. Its real simple but it works pretty well.

The gas tank I had to reattach to the motor frame after I popped it off in the accident. A very small bungee cord works pretty well it seems. The throttle cable was a pain as well. They put the cable end holder onto the mount the easiest was to manufacture it, not the best place for it. I had to move it a little but that was just a matter of drilling a hole and lowering it an inch or so.

My next issue is going to be to find the maximum efficiency combination of drive wheel and tension. I have a wheel on now that is just over an inch in diameter. I used one the day of the accident that was just over 3/4 inch in diameter. I use a chain on the motor mount which allows me to move the tension spring up and down to adjust it. So Finding the right combination is just trial and error.

I think the maximum fun would be the greyhound with that one inch drive wheel. But that motor is heavy and might be a bit too powerful, I expect.