Hey all, I posted this in the 2 stroke section, but ill post it here too. I just got done building 2 more bikes ( my 4th and 5th build) both have grubee 49cc's on em. Finished em up and took em for a test drive and they are both doing the same thing, hard to start and burping and sputtering and backfiring. Never had that problem with any of my other builds, and now both of these bikes are doing it? The only difference in these builds is the temps outside. its was -20 ( thats right, thats 20 below zero) and now back in the 20's and 30's. But what I was wondering is if condensation has formed water in my gas can, they both have gas from the same can, can has been sitting outside for a month, weather has gone from 40s to -20 below and back to the 30s in that time. Could water in the can cause that issue? just wondering before I go through the hassle and dump all the gas out of both bikes, thanks guys
Water in my gas?
- Thread starter walander
- Start date
Im pretty new at this, but i know one thing for sure, leaving a gas can full of gas outside in weather with constant temperature changes, will most likely form condensation, as for the trouble with the engines, well, ive never run a motor with water in the tank before, so i cant really say if thats the problem or not, all i can say is that it is likely that theres water in your gas, hope this helps you get to the bottom of your problem! Good luck =)
yes. it may not condensate, but water can still get in. i usually leave my plastic cans outside, and after a rain, or fog, or dew, or whatever, i can pour the water out that accumulates in the spout.
i built up a bike recently, and it's first run, i used the last of my gas to fill up enough to ride around for a few miles, and it sputtered and ran like crap.
after i got new gas, it ran fine, nice and smooth.
i built up a bike recently, and it's first run, i used the last of my gas to fill up enough to ride around for a few miles, and it sputtered and ran like crap.
after i got new gas, it ran fine, nice and smooth.
erm... to the best of my knowledge plastic fuel containers can and will condensate - dependent only on ambient humidity, the volume of air in the container & the temperature extremes... I could be wrong, but I've never seen cause to think plastic would prevent/reduce it.
However - while water in the fuel is a big problem these days as ethanol is water soluble (water will remain suspended/mixed w/ethanol), the ethanol content is (usually) low enough that you can still separate the water from your fuel by simply draining the carb. As water is heavier than gasoline, it'll have collected there and may be part of the problem. If you drain, say a tablespoon or two out, you should be good to go. If ya can - drain into a clear container, if there's enough water to effect how your motor runs, you'll be able to easily see it as a "puddle" or "beads" in the bottom of the cup (lookin' from the side or under - hard to see from the top). If the fuel is "milky" looking, even a little bit - the water has mixed with the ethanol & despite the claims of some products, it's pretty much wasted...
Best bet? Keep your fuel cans as full as possible (or reasonable lol) & if ya hafta keep 'em outside - keep 'em outa the sun/cover them with a light colored (white) plastic sheet or a rag or w/e. Keeping 'em full will reduce the amount of air/water, the shelter or white cover will help reduce the temperature extremes. If you seem prone to water in the cans - just don't the last cupful or so & dump it out as again, all the water will have collected there (defo NOT "good to the last drop" lol). If you've "milky" egas, then it's prolly your fuel station as it needs to be agitated to mix.
However - while water in the fuel is a big problem these days as ethanol is water soluble (water will remain suspended/mixed w/ethanol), the ethanol content is (usually) low enough that you can still separate the water from your fuel by simply draining the carb. As water is heavier than gasoline, it'll have collected there and may be part of the problem. If you drain, say a tablespoon or two out, you should be good to go. If ya can - drain into a clear container, if there's enough water to effect how your motor runs, you'll be able to easily see it as a "puddle" or "beads" in the bottom of the cup (lookin' from the side or under - hard to see from the top). If the fuel is "milky" looking, even a little bit - the water has mixed with the ethanol & despite the claims of some products, it's pretty much wasted...
Best bet? Keep your fuel cans as full as possible (or reasonable lol) & if ya hafta keep 'em outside - keep 'em outa the sun/cover them with a light colored (white) plastic sheet or a rag or w/e. Keeping 'em full will reduce the amount of air/water, the shelter or white cover will help reduce the temperature extremes. If you seem prone to water in the cans - just don't the last cupful or so & dump it out as again, all the water will have collected there (defo NOT "good to the last drop" lol). If you've "milky" egas, then it's prolly your fuel station as it needs to be agitated to mix.
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hmm... despite the length of my previous bladebla I seem to have forgotten something 
I ride in conditions similar to yours regularly & I've had NP at all with the temp... well, my motor hasn't anyway lol, there's even frequently some small amount of water in my fuel despite the fact I store it indoors... and these lil HTs don't seem to care at all.
So, unless you've a LOT of water - ya might hafta look for a different problem
I ride in conditions similar to yours regularly & I've had NP at all with the temp... well, my motor hasn't anyway lol, there's even frequently some small amount of water in my fuel despite the fact I store it indoors... and these lil HTs don't seem to care at all.
So, unless you've a LOT of water - ya might hafta look for a different problem
The perceived myth of plastic fuel containers not allowing fuel to be subject to condensation has led many 2 cycle owners down a long path to problems. The fact is that they do produce condensation but not to the same degree that metal containers do.
BA is absolutely right in his post and one of the best preventative measures to decrease condensation in any container is to keep it as full as possible thus limiting the area for condensation to form.
A fuel stabilizer also can help to a degree but I personally do not use them as I have seen some additives that can cause gumming of engine parts. It is also an unwise practice to use any fuel additives in mixed gas like Heat or denatured alcohol to remove moisture as either of these can cause engine damage.
This is from an Echo / Shindawa site that a friend owns and has some good information concerning fuel mixing and shelf life:
BA is absolutely right in his post and one of the best preventative measures to decrease condensation in any container is to keep it as full as possible thus limiting the area for condensation to form.
A fuel stabilizer also can help to a degree but I personally do not use them as I have seen some additives that can cause gumming of engine parts. It is also an unwise practice to use any fuel additives in mixed gas like Heat or denatured alcohol to remove moisture as either of these can cause engine damage.
This is from an Echo / Shindawa site that a friend owns and has some good information concerning fuel mixing and shelf life:
1. What is the correct fuel/oil ratio for most 2 cycle engines and products?
A 50:1 ratio with 89 Octane fuel can be used in all almost all 2-stroke equipment, provided the oil is JASO/FC and ISO-LEGD certified. JASO/FC and ISO-LEGD oil must be used with a mid-grade (89 octane) or premium gasoline in all 1997 and newer engines
2. Why should I use JASO/FC and ISO-LEGD certified oil?
ALL TWO-STROKE OILS ARE NOT EQUAL:
It is best to use mix oil that exceeds ISO LEGD standards and is JASO/FC registered (registration #001EPA646). These oil are fully compatible with all air - cooled, outdoor power equipment 2-Stroke engines at 50:1 ratio.JASO/FC and ISO-LEGD oil must be used with a mid-grade (89 octane) or premium gasoline in all 1997 and newer engines.
These oil's are made for high revving, (7000 RPM and up) air-cooled 2-stroke engines that are E.P.A. and C.A.R.B. emissions certified. Make sure the oil has a GD certification. Oils that are GA/GB/GC are of lesser quality, designed for applications such as water-cooled boat engines, low RPM lawnmower engines, or snowmobile engines. Prior to 1997, oils were not manufactured to these higher standards. Some or most of the oils were simply 30 or 40 weight 4-stroke engine oil with minimum amounts of additives. Echo oil (by most accounts) is one of the highest quality 2-Stroke oil available.
ISO-LEGD or JASO/ FC oil will provide maximum protection against engine wear and carbon buildup.
3. Why is it important to use Premium gas?
Gasoline must be 89 octane or higher octane. Premium gasoline has greater amounts of detergents and anti-oxidizing additives to keep the engines clean. Poor gas will build-up varnish, gum and tar deposits on the piston surface and ring grooves shorten the life of the engine.
4. What are the fuel/oil storage recommendations?
Store fuel in a cool dry area in a closed container. Do not store fuel longer than 30 days. Fuel will deteriorate and lose volatility over time. Adding a fuel stabilizer can extend storage up to 90 days by forming a barrier on the surface of the gasoline and prevents contaminants from entering the fuel.
Do not allow moisture to enter the fuel container. Water is heavier than gasoline and will settle to the bottom eventually finding it’s way into your engine’s fuel tank where it could cause severe engine failure.
Use only fuel approved containers. The additives in today’s fuels can cause other than approved containers to deteriorate and contaminate fuel that is otherwise okay. Once this contaminated fuel enters an engine it tends to cause the moving parts to stick together and possibly cause serious damage to the unit.
5. How do I mix the Fuel and oil?
A 50:1 ratio with 89 Octane fuel or higher
Add half of the amount of fuel being mixed in an approved container. Add complete contents of Bottle of Premium 2-stroke engine oil (containing stabilizer) and mix thoroughly. Add the remaining amount fuel being mixed and mix thoroughly.
Below is a ratio chart based on a 50:1 mix ratio:
Is there anyone who is using ECHO oil in there MB? I used it on my first build but I tried some Kastor synthectic and it seemed to be better. What is the best oil to use to break in new motors and what is the best oil after break in. Where do you get this oil?
