The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike

[BarelyAWake]

re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Silver - lol, this time around it's the machine itself that's dictating how it looks, the parts lookin' kinda neat as... well, they're neat heh - TBH I have given some thought, a lil daydreamin' about some shiny stuff - how to make it look a lil groovier... like perhaps putting stainless braided covers over the brake line cables (that don't exist yet), headlights/mirrors that complement the shape of the trike (yea, still gronkin' on that) front fenders that incorporate blinkers, some sorta cowling to enclose the batteries & mebbe w/a scoop kinda deal to force more air towards the motor, a rear cowling/fender/taillight/blinker assembly... mebbe off a baby crotch-rocket motorcycle, like a Ninja 250? (if I can find one lol), some sorta cargo solution, like perhaps laptop cases as removable "saddlebags" on the sides. I'm even somewhat bothered by my brain's insistence, it's obsession with some kinda aerodynamic body shell That's unlikely tho as not only would it make the trike somewhat unmanageably huge/long - due to needing a large amount of clearance in the front for the pedal crank (and my honkin' big feet) I really can't figure how to make that look anything but goofy heh - Still, it's way too early for me to be sweating those details (or so I keep tellin' meself)

Dan, heh, wish I could claim credit for stuff like "the seat contouring to the engine" but in fact I've little choice in the matter, with the limitations of it's size, the concerns of weight & balance and the shape of the components themselves - either the parts fit where they're supposed to go or I hafta figure something else out. This entire project has been (and still is) a matter of gettin' all the whirly bits & whatnot and piling them up in a heap on my workbench and trying to get'em all to fit within X amount of space, failing, knockin' it all down and trying again lol - this build has undergone many "BLARG! - start overs" and TBH, I've little say or influence, the parts themselves "demanding" their placement - I've strayed far from the initial picture in my brain heh

Love that story about the kid and the three-wheeler BTW, warms my cranky ol' heart to hear of stuff like that! While it sounds like it'd work for him - I dunno if a taddy would work for those whom can't use their legs at all, not only is it really close to the ground (makin' dismounting into a wheelchair a srs problem), w/a taddy - yer legs are just kinda sticking out into the air in front. While there's clip-in shoes & whatnot, those require some amount of leg/foot function & unless you added a cradle support & straps or something, ya'd stand a good chance of running yourself over... actually w/o clip-ins I might suffer the same fate... so I suppose some goofy bicycle shoes are in my future & I bet my motorhead friends are gonna give me some crap about that lol

I am starting to think I am gonna have to make a trip to maine and check this beast out when it is done.

Heh - Though it's gonna be a while before this thing is any more than a pile o'parts, a summertime get-together would be awesome! There's getting to be enough MBers in the area we've chatted about an event, there's a large empty paved lot not far from here that's perfect for it and there's already a buncha gokarters & drifters that use it. I know the owner so it's just a matter of gettin' enough bikes together to make it worth the bother... NH is pretty close by so mebbe that'd work out for ya - closer than Arizona anyway ofc...




Well... I propped up my new wheels & tires jus' ta "help" make vrooming noises to myself & daydream, added a 24t sprocket to the jackshaft to check clearances - but at the moment I'm a lil stuck. Sure, I should prolly tear it all down again and finish cleaning and trimming down the frame, it's pretty much "finaled" save about a 1/4" chop to squeeze the seat a lil closer. The major problem at this point is I've botched the original front suspension assembly - I'd made a couple of cuts for a 4" extension, then decided to scrap the first frame assembly in favor of a smaller, lighter version... which ofc means that the cuts I made to the suspension assembly are all wrong. I suppose I could weld it all back together again - but I think I'd be better off starting from scratch TBH. There's an ongoing argument going on in my head, that the single A arm is simpler & lighter - but the double A arm has better performance characteristics... the single A arm is already made for me - but it's a bit stout for the build and I should prolly make my own... but if I do that it outa be a double A arm setup - which is heavier & more complicated... aaaaaand 'round and 'round the argument goes till I get such a migraine I wander off and tinker on somethin' else lol

I guess... I'm gonna jus' clean my work area (yea right)...

 

[kipharley]

re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Hi,BA.Looks like your getting it all sorted out!When are you gonna stop cutting and start welding?Good luck,Looking GOOD!Kip.
[email protected]

 

[BarelyAWake]

re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Dunno Kip, that - like so many things, is up to the build more than me heh

...as ya'll may or may not know, I'm not known for buildin' bikes in a hurry lol...

I'd like to say it'll be "done" by spring... but TBH, I've no idea at all... no matter, it's Maine & the long cold dark as only just begun to have it's way w/us

 

[Dan]

re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Amazing build BA. Really does look manufactured.

Like the art hanging in pic. (center top, back ground) Sort of "ode to the South west, North east style"

Looked more like a ram but the steer ones looked cooler; steer scull - Google Search

 

[BarelyAWake]

re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Yea, I'd go fer the steer horns, but the Schwinn would get mad ifn I stole it's handlebars


dangit... there's a "can't steer ifn I steal the steer to make the steer" joke in there somewhere, but I can't sort it out lol

 

[Dan]

re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Har, now I gotta make one BA. Have a Schwinn seat with an "eye hole" and lots of old handle bars. The eye hole was from my first real crash. Fender failure, global warming and beer were contributing factors. Glad I don't have to worry about that any more. "Global warming" Well until next summer, snork

Got a welder. Might go all out and make a moose one. Mount it on a wooden plaque. 2 funny.


Would you want a fairing? Working on a thing

 

[Cogswelln]

re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

looking at your trike than looking at mine almost depresses me except for one fact mine is already going, but yours is just an awesome build, every new pic it keeps looking better and better keep up the good work man, and maybe sometime soo ill take the trip out of my town and head to see it. oh and now that there is snow finally!!!!!

 

[Elmo]

re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

actually w/o clip-ins I might suffer the same fate... so I suppose some goofy bicycle shoes are in my future & I bet my motorhead friends are gonna give me some crap about that lol

AlaskaVan on the other board has a lifan on a tadpole and he experienced wheelsuck (that is what recumbent riders call it)and had to use crutches for a while. Personally I wouldn't ride one of these very much without clipless pedals and shoes. It is too easy to hit a bump and have your foot go under the bike. It has happened to me also, not fun. These might be the ticket for the frozen north Lake MXZ302 Winter MTB Shoes - Mountain Bike Shoes

 

[Dan]

re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Just askin' here, how about a safety bar or floor boards? While still allowing for reverse.

The thought of hyper extending/braking ankle and leg bones

 

[corgi1]

re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

I'm glad to see the idea of bars (about mid calf) to catch flailing legs that slip off the pedal, and rear catch wheels on either side on the rear about 4-6 inches above the ground to help forgive 30 mph speed in a 20 mph turn

 

[BarelyAWake]

re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

The more I consider it - the more I figure you guys have a point & I'll no doubt be gettin' some clicky bike shoes & pedals. While I appreciate the link Elmo & those are some serious lookin' boots - my feets are... urm... rather large to begin with & should I wear boots I'll not only be unable to see where I'm going, they'd have so much frontal area as to defeat any aerodynamic gain of a recumbent

So a lil diggin' around and checkin' w/a roadie friend o'mine and I came up with these: Shimano Clipless Pedal Mountain Bike Shoe (dunno about that retailer) which seem a OK pair for the money *shrug* Question tho - if these things have built in metal plates that attach & quick release - why on earth do they call them "clipless"?

As for a "safety bar" ...I suppose it's possible, if a touch awkward in it's location & clearance given the constraints of the vehicle. If one had limited to no use of their legs I'd defo recommend it as I see little alternative - but for this build & myself, I think I'll just try out the shoes. There's also the weight & balance consideration - if one were to build such a safety feature, it'd hafta be as minimal & light as possible as taddys have a bit of a habit of "noseing over" in hard braking. While this is often accounted for, "stunt trikes" tend to have a skid plate and/or caster to prevent the pedals from hitting the ground - any additional weight forward of the front axles would make it more prone to tipping forward... something to think about anyway lol

BTW Dan, from what I've seen it's somewhat common for taddy riders to "reverse" by reaching forward and grabbin' the front wheels, spinnin' them backwards with their hands like ya would a wheelchair, but I r decadent heh - the 48v electric engine includes a reverse feature, normally disabled as an accidental reverse on a two wheeler could be... interesting lol. As this hub motor has a built-in controller I can't simply switch the polarity, but there's a 'puter interface via USB (cruise controller) & a plethora of various settings I can screw up - including enabling the push-button reverse (button nxt to throttle)

 

[Elmo]

re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Question tho - if these things have built in metal plates that attach & quick release - why on earth do they call them "clipless"?

Before clipless pedals there was a device that bolted on the pedals that came over the front of your shoe back towards the instep and a strap that cinched your foot to the pedal. They were aptly called toe clips. Hence pedals that will hold your feet to the pedals without toe clips are called clipless. I think I still have a set somewhere.

 

[BarelyAWake]

re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Ah yes, the "toe clip" basket lookin' thingies... I still think "clipless" is a lie lol

 

[NunyaBidness]

re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Ah yes, the "toe clip" basket lookin' thingies... I still think "clipless" is a lie lol

I know, I never did get the name "clipless" either. The other kind around here are commonly called "rat traps", 'cause you're trapped in 'em kinda.

I also will never go to a platform pedal again on any pedal bike I own. I use these Time ATAC Clipless Pedals on my TREK 6700. And a pair of Specialized Mtn. bike cleat type shoes. The shoes are very uncomfortable to walk in but there is nothing that can compare on the bike.

Those look like some really nice shoes to have cleats in the bottom. I would recommend these pedals Crank Brothers Egg Beaters Clipless Pedals Review as I think the cleat for your shoe is kind of small. This will make walking in those shoes much more comfortable and give less wear and tear to the cleats from walking on pavement.

 

[kipharley]

re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

I'm glad to see the idea of bars (about mid calf) to catch flailing legs that slip off the pedal, and rear catch wheels on either side on the rear about 4-6 inches above the ground to help forgive 30 mph speed in a 20 mph turn

All you would need is straps that would cradle your heels.
I wouldn't think that clips that held your feet to the pedals would be a wise decision!Kip.
[email protected]

 

[Saddletramp1200]

re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Ah, BA you touched my heart, being honest like that
I have shoved V8's and other motors into trike frames. The lower the better, Dude Long don't matter, Wide does. I have some Schwinn Trikes were playing with, Honda, And Robin motors, Cut the frames, ect. The trike avatar is gone, ?

 

[BarelyAWake]

re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Saddletramp, I agree completely... well, almost completely lol, close 'nuff to not matter anyways

I'm doing my best to build it with no more than a 6" (unladen) ride height, from ground to the lowest point on the frame, with a 1" compression in the shocks this should leave me with about 3 1/2" of clearance under maximum impact load considering the length of the A arms and rear stays... theoretically ofc. I may find it necessary to relocate the suspension's mount points should this prove insufficient and I ground strike all the time, or I find I've excessive and unneeded ride height. Another uncertain are the shocks themselves, the ones pictured are absolute junk - salvaged from dead box store bike carcasses, I'm using them for now simply to approximate mount location & travel. I may end up riding with them for the initial test phase as I've absolutely no idea what their load rating needs to be... while these are no doubt "overrated" (in more ways than one lol), they claim 750-850lbs/in and their performance (or lack) outa give me a pretty good idea what to look for in a quality shock. I'm guessing the fronts are oversprung and the rear under... but I don't really know - the front does take the most force in a bump/landing, yet the rear is heavily laden... too many unknowns at this stage to invest in a minimum of $300 worth of bicycle shocks in any case heh

Width - while about 30" wide seems to be the "standard" for performance tadpoles and you're again completely right as width provides stability in a turn, I've a bit of a conflict of interest here - as center of mass height dictates width... and not only is my mass a little higher than normal, I really need to keep this as narrow as is safe as the roadways around here often lack a shoulder, even when there is one, it's often torn up and rough. While it'd be nice to have a 28" width just to be able to fit it through my doorway, I think that's prolly far too narrow for stability... I'm gonna try 30" wide for now, subject to modification - widening the wheelbase if it proves too unstable.

Length... lol, now we get to a sticking point heh - I believe that with just a 4' wheelbase the turning radius is approximately a 12' circle, depending on the steering mechanism's travel ofc... while this too is a "guess" based only on other people's work, any increase in length drastically effects the turning radius. While again yer right on, it's irrelevant at speed and the least important of the three (provided too long instead of too short) - low speed handling and maneuverability aren't really things I wish to compromise. I'm trying to keep it's wheelbase as close to the production racing taddys as much as I'm able, lengthening it only to provide room for the engine and to help reduce "noseover" during hard stops. Currently, as pictured in the above - my butt is seriously too close to the front axles & I'm gonna hafta sort that out. Catapults are fun, but I don't wanna ride one lol

I had added 4" to the overall length to compensate, a compromise as it outa be a 6-10" if I want my seating to mimic other taddys - but I figured the counterweight of the batts, hub motor & ICE gave me some slack... however I lost that length in the mock up when I made a new, far lighter chassis, lost the entire front suspension assembly actually & I hafta start over and build a new one *shrug* no worries tho - the new chassis weighs less than half of the old one, is stronger and easier to work with - well worth starting from scratch I figure.

No doubt I'm worrying details, that days spent tryin' to figure even a 1/2" reduction in height is kinda silly heh, that I could add a full foot to it's length with little to no adverse effect. There's much silliness in this build really, a reflection of it's builder I figure... but it makes me lol & keeps me occupied, gives me an outlet for my "maximum performance" & "most for the least" obsessions - even if it doesn't work out as planned it almost doesn't matter as it's the build phase that gets me hooked on these things, each more silly than the last



Other examples of mine silliness? Hmm... well, it's still in the "mulling over" phase - but I'm giving some thought to converting the ICE to run on at least E85, if not E100, even potentially trying to incorporate some solar maintainer/charger panels to eek out every last possible bit of "fuel" from anywhere... Why is this "silly"? Well, first - I don't really consider myself much of an environmentalist, second - E100 isn't even available around here, third - this thing is bound to get ridiculous mileage anyway & I could ofc just pedal, forth - while the E85/100 conversion seems simple enough (increase compression & alcohol resistant parts) it's made of aluminum and aluminum doesn't like high ethanol content (corrosion) & the fifth - I don't even know if it's possible to incorporate solar charging as I'm a total En00b...

..yet the tech is somehow irresistible, & the research fun... I guess we'll see lol - but first I gotta figure out a coupla far more basic things... like the blasted seat position

 

[BarelyAWake]

re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Oh right lol - is this the "trike" pic ya were lookin' for?

I don't think we have a taddy one... OMG DISCRIMINATION I SAY

 

[Cogswelln]

re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

the solar idea for helping to keep the batteries charged i think personally would add a new level to electric motored machines. Im not much of an electrical nut myself seems my knowledge of it is dont touch the power and negative while there is a charge on the power side. And for electrical all i have ever done is house and automotive elctrical. Either way i hope you find a way to incorprate solar power into it somehow. Definitely worth checking out anyways. keep up the good work, as soon as i fix a stripped out exhaust hole ill have to go take a look.

 

[BarelyAWake]

re: The Bent Zombie Tribrid Tadpole Trike (build phase)

Not much ta look at I'm afraid Cog, ATM everythin' is "on hold" again lol

My chassis redesign worked out so well, so much easier to build & work on and with such a weight savings I decided to reevaluate my plans for the single A arm front suspension, while my "armchair engineering" promises... acceptable results, I'm jus' not satisfied. While my research leads me to believe that the tire scrub and alignment changes with this setup aren't enough to adversely effect handling to any serious degree, I'd really like this build to handle as well as possible...

So, back to the drawing board for the front end... or the keyboard as the case may be heh

Building an entire dual A arm front end assembly from scratch isn't really something I wanna get into at the moment though, not only would I hafta source a bunch of parts and deal with some tricky math - I've ofc a ton of other things to attend to & this is after all simply a prototype. So, I decided to see if this was a problem I could just buy my way out of. Problem being ofc that fully suspended tadpole trikes aren't exactly commonplace... in fact the only one I'm aware of that's readily available is from Berserker Cycles;



So, I called 'em up ta see if they sold individual components. Quite helpful & friendly on the phone, they said "Sure!" when I asked them if they'd sell just the dual A arm front suspension assembly for a DIY project. Only problem being that when I got the quote - it was to the tune of $2,240.39... and that just wasn't gonna work out fer me lol. Granted, minus things I didn't need from them like the shocks & brakes the total dropped to around $1700, it's still too rich for my blood - particularly as this is simply an experiment & as such, the entire project is theoretical & potentially disposable.

So, time to widen the search a bit to include anything even remotely in my scale, four wheelers being the obvious first choice - I was not all that surprised to find that most don't have dual A arms as I've already got a couple few dead ones in my yard, & those that do the parts aren't readily available and/or are simply woefully inappropriate, being way too heavy & tall. So, time to widen the search yet more to include go carts - a problematic search I'd already tried w/o success as most carts in my size range don't have a front suspension at all, those few that do having primitive coil springs or torsion arms. There's some "off roading" go carts ofc, but I'd not been able to find any that had replacement parts available beyond engine basics and doodads.

Just as I was about to throw in the towel & settle for the single A arm setup as originally planned - I stumbled on the 'Yerf-Dog' a 5 - 7HP fully suspended go cart w/a very interesting box type & unitized (entire assembly can be removed frm cart as a unit) dual A arm front suspension;



Best yet for me anyway lol, is that they'd recently had a factory recall due to a flaw in their spindle assemblies, apparently they've been failing and loosing wheels. As a result there seems to be a glut of Yerf-Dog complete front ends minus spindles as inspected take-offs for as little as $100 from YerfDog Parts BMI Karts and Supplies! Now that's a price I'm more than happy to pay for my random experimentation purposes heh

Problem is.... there's little to no information on the specifics of this suspension assembly, namely it's measurements. I called 'em up ta see and there wasn't a "tech" available to answer my relatively unusual questions, they're used to folks getting replacement parts for their go carts & thus it's usually just a matter of year/make/model for 'em. I asked the poor receptionist if the take-off front ends were shipped assembled and she said yea - so I asked how long the box was and she said about 38"...so while the shocks are obviously way too huge and the A arms themselves too long & heavy, as that's really close to my desired width of 30" I went ahead and ordered one w/some ball joints & spindles to play with.

As the "A" arms with this setup are actually more "U" arms, it's simplicity itself to cut 'em down to my desired length (or just make them using the hardware & mounts) & as I'll be using my own, far smaller shocks - everything above the top A arm mount can go... which outa leave me with a unitized front suspension assembly that's probably about 7" tall... maybe, probably, sorta, kind of heh... I figure it's worth a shot as just the hardware is worth what I paid for the whole assembly...

...or it'll all be grossly oversized & useless, just more scrap clutterin' up my shop *shrug* we'll see when it gets here anyway right?