Survived my first stop by police

[Desert Rat]

My saga with the police

Went out to my bank today and used my regular 3 mile route down a side street.

As I was coming back I turned the corner and there were 8 police suv's on the side
of the road and a bunch of guys standing around. reached to turn off my
mp3 player and swerved a little before passing them.

Continued riding looking in rear view mirror and there was 2 following me.

I stopped at the light and waited my turn then went thru and turned right on
another side street and got pulled over ( for failing to use hand signals )
(Started mp3 player recording)

they pulled me over and asked for D.L. by name, I handed it to him with the
comment that I'm not required to have one and he said for ID, OK I can see that, I said.
( a drivers license for identification? )

He came back and asked " you don't have any weapons or drugs on you, do you?"
and when I said no, he started reaching for my saddle bags saying
" you don't mind me checking do you" and I said yes I mind! and don't
consent to a search he stepped back at that surprised and asked the same
questions again and again I said do what you have to I don't consent to a
search, then he said " I can get the dogs out here" and I said do what you
have to! I don't have anything on me!

Then he said "I'm going to have to write you a ticket" fine do what you have to,
I said and he walked back to the car and left the other guy to question me on the bike.
and when he came back he said " this is your lucky day I'm gonna let you off with a warning"
RIGHT ( dripping sarcasm ) LOL

Took my written warning and left making an un-signaled right on a street
30 foot in front of them and rode off!

Moral of the true story never consent to a search, make them go out on a limb.

Even if they say "well you don't have a thermonuclear device in there?
well then you don't mind me checking do you?" ( You just consented to a search!)

And remember Am I being detained officer or am I free to go? is always the
right question to ask politely.

 

[bluegoatwoods]

Good advice.

I'm mostly pretty sympathetic and friendly to law enforcement. I mostly approve of those guys.

But they're still not searching me without a warrant. Or probable cause. But I'm not likely to give them that.

"Am I being detained, Officer? Or am I free to go?" is perfect. No one can blame you for asking that. And it also makes them put up or shut up. They can dawdle a bit, of course. But that's alright.

 

[Desert Rat]

I agree with you to a point and the point is this.

Ignorance of the law is no excuse even ten fold more for officers
enforcing the laws.

now I was pulled over for not using hand signals and yet the law says I don't have to so why was I pulled over? boredom?

Article 8. Turning, Starting and Signals on Stopping and Turning

§28-756. Method of giving hand and arm signals

A. Except as provided by subsection B, a person shall give all hand and arm signals required by this article from the left side of the vehicle in the following manner, and the signals shall indicate as follows:

Left turn. Hand and arm extended horizontally.
Right turn. Hand and arm extended upward.
Stop or decrease speed. Hand and arm extended downward.

B. A person operating a bicycle may give a right turn signal by extending the right hand and arm horizontally and to the right side of the bicycle.

 

[Kioshk]

Eh...we're not robots; there are a-hole cops, and there are a-hole motorized-bicycle riders. You won't get too much sympathy from me WRT cop-bashing. That profession certainly can attract certain personality-types, but overwhelmingly I believe cops are good people and have a freaking hard, at-times soul crushing job. My policy is to conduct myself in a way to AVOID police; and when I DO (and mind you, I have been pulled over PLENTY of times and even arrested), remember that they're the guys you're happy to see when you need help.

 

[Desert Rat]

Eh...we're not robots; there are a-hole cops, and there are a-hole motorized-bicycle riders. You won't get too much sympathy from me WRT cop-bashing. That profession certainly can attract certain personality-types, but overwhelmingly I believe cops are good people and have a freaking hard, at-times soul crushing job. My policy is to conduct myself in a way to AVOID police; and when I DO (and mind you, I have been pulled over PLENTY of times and even arrested), remember that they're the guys you're happy to see when you need help.

I'm not bashing cops,
yes they have a hard job, even harder when they have
to deal with following rules. and yes you have the power hungry in every
profession.

let me ask you, should you keep your job if you can't do it right?

Isn't part of enforcing the laws Knowing the law? so why quote a non existent law to justify pulling someone over? Boredom?

It doesn't matter what you do, I expect you to do it competently!
same as I'm expected to!

and this is my first time getting pulled over on a bike, why?
because I treat it the same way as I would a car or motorcycle
including safety equipment.

and I'm not saying he was a bad cop, but he clearly didn't know the law he was trying to enforce or he was lying. either way it was unjustified.

The fact is they were sitting there, saw me swerve coming around the corner being surprised at seeing them there, and then followed me for 1 mile
before pulling me over and used the no turn signal as an excuse!

as they say "Just the facts ma'am!"

 

[Desert Rat]

And may I add I am always polite and respectful when dealing with police officers

And always do what they say, that doesn't mean i am subservient to them.
they are just as accountable for doing a bad job as you or I am.

 

[bluegoatwoods]

Actually, though, I do think that they weren't wrong in their 'complaint' that you didn't use some sort of turn signal. There might be exceptions, but I think in most jurisdictions a turn signal (light or hand) is required.

But, of course, that wasn't the real reason they stopped you. Clearly they had a look at you and decided, "let's check this guy out".

 

[massdrive]

If you have nothing to hide than why give police a hard time?? I don't like being pulled over and questioned either, but it seems to me that a better way to handle a situation like that is to be cooperative and engage the officer's in conversation about your bike. Make a couple of new acquaintances and you probably will never be bothered again by local law enforcement.

 

[Desert Rat]

If you have nothing to hide than why give police a hard time?? I don't like being pulled over and questioned either, but it seems to me that a better way to handle a situation like that is to be cooperative and engage the officer's in conversation about your bike. Make a couple of new acquaintances and you probably will never be bothered again by local law enforcement.

I just wrote this to inform nothing more and I'm sorry if it caused hurt feelings.

just how did I give them a hard time?

by knowing my rights and not consenting to a search just because they said I should?

they also asked me where I was coming from and going to.
and just how is that any of their business?

So let me be perfectly clear

ANYTIME YOU TALK TO THE POLICE THEY CAN AND WILL USE ANYTHING YOU SAY
AGAINST YOU IT'S THEIR JOB!

http://youtu.be/6wXkI4t7nuc
Listen to a law professor and a police officer tell you why.

now let me ask you, Are you willing to give up a few liberties to protect your freedoms?

 

[maniac57]

This is a HUGE reason cops get away with pretty much anything they want. Most people don't care because THEY have never been needlessly hassled by a rambo wannabe.
Looking the way I do, it happens to me ALL THE TIME yet I'M the bad guy when I get fed up and upset by my rights being ignored or outright trampled.
I have learned a few things in my checkered past.
#1 NEVER volunteer ANYTHING. Answer only direct questions.
#2 NEVER consent to a search if you think it's bogus. MAKE them call the dog. Call your lawyer while you wait for the drug squad to show. If you annoy the cop bad enough, be ready to get searched anyway when they fake a drug hit with the highly trained dog.
#3 You can be 150% in the right and go directly to jail if the cop want to arrest you. NOTHING you can do will force a bad cop to act right, so just keep your mouth shut and stand on your right to refuse unreasonable search. FORCE the court to take you as far as you can go, be it trial or dismissal. The SECOND you start costing the state money, your ''crime'' will magically vanish. (Unless you actually did something)
NEVER agree to ANY dismissal that requires court costs. This is legally the same as pleading guilty. If it's dismissed, DON'T PAY A CENT!
Be aware these guidelines are NOT for the faint of heart or easily intimidated citizen.
Understand that pi$$ing off the police is generally a VERY BAD IDEA, and has potentially serious consequences.
But it is also sometimes very satisfying.

 

[Kioshk]

And may I add I am always polite and respectful when dealing with police officers

And always do what they say, that doesn't mean i am subservient to them.
they are just as accountable for doing a bad job as you or I am.

Well, you acknowledge that they saw you swerving after being surprised by seeing cops; maybe that aroused suspicion. You also state that you're not required to signal. Based on the textbook law you cited, it looks like ANY vehicle operator is required to indicate turns, cyclists being granted the use of right-hands for right-turns. In any case, I think we motorized-bikers should always signal when around others (especially cops), if not out of common courtesy and our own safety, but out of common sense: don't give the cops an excuse, founded or not, to pull you over.

You also say you recorded the incident on your MP3 device; how about posting it?

Like I'd said, I've been pulled over plenty of times: in a car for speeding, but on my bike only once, and that was for blowing a red-light. I got a "hey, don't do that again!" from the cop, and that was in New York where operating motorized-bikes on the roads is technically illegal; I have had countless other pleasant and friendly interactions with the cops in New York who were fascinated with the bike...just gear-headed guys like us with guns.

 

[Desert Rat]

I will do just that, and kioshk I'm tired of your
attitude and instead of shutting up I will put up, and I doggone expect
an apology from you. or do you spend your time just mouthing off?

here it is, got it recording about 2 minutes into encounter
http://youtu.be/9AiEjuRpwVQ

and if you catch it he lied about having a dog because at 32 seconds he says he's right here referring to a dog he never presented.

 

[Desert Rat]

may give a right turn signal

this means I don't have to according to the law
May and Must have entirely different meanings!

Article 8. Turning, Starting and Signals on Stopping and Turning

§28-756. Method of giving hand and arm signals

A. Except as provided by subsection B, a person shall give all hand and arm signals required by this article from the left side of the vehicle in the following manner, and the signals shall indicate as follows:

Left turn. Hand and arm extended horizontally.
Right turn. Hand and arm extended upward.
Stop or decrease speed. Hand and arm extended downward.

B. A person operating a bicycle may give a right turn signal by extending the right hand and arm horizontally and to the right side of the bicycle.

Besides I was on a side street in a neighborhood not on a main street

 

[Desert Rat]

also why couldn't they be honest? If they had said we saw you swerve back there
and just wanted to be sure everything was alright, I would have let them check my saddlebags.
I hate liars!!! A personal flaw, yes I know!

 

[bigoilbob]

Why not allow the saddlebag check? Not a rhetorical question. Did you think it was a "Stop and frisk" type overreach? I am asking because I am genuinely conflicted on this myself, and you might have a very good reason for all of us taking this stance, whether we are carrying "wrong" stuff or not.

So, assuming you were not hiding anything illegal, why did you refuse the search request? Please expand....

 

[Theon]

Personaly I think searching people for 'fun' is an over reach.
And I don't blame DR for refusing.
It's an abuse of power, Lying about the dog, is intimidation, and the fact that the cop didn't even know the Law he was trying to book him on shows incompentcy.
Sorry but I have had some disappointing results from cops when I needed them, telling me how 'busy' they are.
I was even made a joke of by one officer when I was in there with a broken jaw from an unprovoked attack.
What's more who do you complain to if you feel you have been unfairly treated?
If youcomplain about an assh*le cop, your just asking for trouble.
And the ones that do get them selves in big trouble just resign and investigation dropped!

 

[Kioshk]

I will do just that, and kioshk I'm tired of your
attitude and instead of shutting up I will put up, and I doggone expect
an apology from you. or do you spend your time just mouthing off?

Thanks for posting the MP3: you "walk the talk" and I respect that. As for apologizing to you for your perception of my attitude, that won't be happening.

I suggest that you reconsider your interpretation of the traffic law you cited; I'm pretty sure you'll find that a judge will interpret the word "may" in this context as "has permission to", not "if they feel like signaling at all". As in a cyclist has permission to use their right-hand instead of their left hand to mandatorily indicate a right-turn; motorists can't do that for obvious reasons.

That being said, it does indeed appear that the cop let you slide on a ticket.

P.S.: I'm a Constitutionalist; I am totally with you on the refusal to a search. I also understand a cop's rights and responsibilities while conducting an investigation.

 

[CTripps]

I always find that smiling and being polite to the officer is a great way to carry on the meeting. I try not to let my mouth run on, to reduce the risk of providing information they haven't asked for.

I do my best to make certain that an officer doesn't have to do thier job (at least, with regards to me). I wait until I'm around the corner before doing anything that would cause that. True there are a lot of gung-ho "Let's get 'em" personalities in the occupation, but most officers would rather be a visible presence to keep the than chase folks who will likely get off on lesser charges or have charges dismissed.

 

[Desert Rat]

I suggest that you reconsider your interpretation of the traffic law you cited; I'm pretty sure you'll find that a judge will interpret the word "may" in this context as "has permission to", not "if they feel like signaling at all". As in a cyclist has permission to use their right-hand instead of their left hand to mandatorily indicate a right-turn; motorists can't do that for obvious reasons.

I will not argue with you K.


http://dictionary.law.com/Default.aspx?selected=1229

may

v. a choice to act or not, or a promise of a possibility, as distinguished from "shall," which makes it imperative. 2) in statutes, and sometimes in contracts, the word "may" must be read in context to determine if it means an act is optional or mandatory,for it may be an imperative. The same careful analysis must be made of the word "shall." Non-lawyers tend to see the word "may" and think they have a choice or are excused from complying with some statutory provision or regulation.


let's just say we Agree to disagree
and I have to go out, the other ?'s I will answer later.
and if I'm wrong then you can school me with facts not opinions
I will welcome the knowledge anytime
and thanks for the responses

 

[bairdco]

i knew a guy with a nice old Porsche 911. he told the cops they couldn't search it, so they brought in the dog.

dog jumped in the car, slobbered allover everything, nails gouged up his seats, and didn't find anything.

my buddy got a speeding ticket and a torn up interior, which the police were never made to repair.

a hefty chunk of change for exercising his rights.

if a cop.wants to search my car, i let them. they look in the glove box and trunk and let me go, always without a ticket.