I think Florida will be the proving ground for gas motorized bicycles

[SANGESF]

Re: I think Florida will be the proving ground for gas MBs

I'm still hung up on this VIN thing.....they keep saying the reason the bikes can't be registered is because they don't have a VIN.
Can't the DMV or SOS produce one for you for a fee?
How do you guys deal with assembled vehicles?

Maybe it's just me, but it seems like that's the real problem. Find a way to get a VIN, then register it.
Man, what a system....leave it to them to make us beg for registration & fees...

The thing is animal8r, is that the DmV (currently) has specific instructions to NOT register a bicycle with a gas motor on it, regardless of VIN or not.. Mainly to do with the fact that most bicycles don't have the required safety equipment that is standard (I'm guessing via either state or federal guidelines) that a "normal" moped has.

 

[DuctTapedGoat]

Re: I think Florida will be the proving ground for gas MBs

The 1999 legislature did not authorize the registration of motorized bicycles to be registered or provide proof of insurance. Therefore motorized bicycles are not required to be registered or title in Florida.

Living in America has it's perks - the lack of a law can often be the realization of a new freedom. It's refreshing to hear from a person in a position of authority a statement further reinforcing that.

 

[DuctTapedGoat]

Re: I think Florida will be the proving ground for gas MBs

The thing is animal8r, is that the DmV (currently) has specific instructions to NOT register a bicycle with a gas motor on it, regardless of VIN or not.. Mainly to do with the fact that most bicycles don't have the required safety equipment that is standard (I'm guessing via either state or federal guidelines) that a "normal" moped has.

Sangesf : Have you spoken with your local DMV investigator? They are the people who would have the say so one way or another, not a desk clerk - nor would they even have the authority to issue you one as the DMV investigator would. There is generally one per county.

When you register a motorized bicycle with a VIN you don't tell them it's a Schwinn - you tell them it's a custom built motorcycle. The fact that it has a VIN means that it passes FHMVSS, which means it's able to be registered and insured.

 

[SANGESF]

Re: I think Florida will be the proving ground for gas MBs

Sangesf : Have you spoken with your local DMV investigator? They are the people who would have the say so one way or another, not a desk clerk - nor would they even have the authority to issue you one as the DMV investigator would. There is generally one per county.

When you register a motorized bicycle with a VIN you don't tell them it's a Schwinn - you tell them it's a custom built motorcycle. The fact that it has a VIN means that it passes FHMVSS, which means it's able to be registered and insured.

Actually, you're right about the VIN... My point was, that unless the bike came from the factory with VIN attached to it, it's such a pain in the arse to get one, you're prolly better off just buying a moped frame and starting from there and then go get it registered. The DMV will not create a VIN for a standard bicycle, just because the owner wants one.

The other part to this whole menagerie is that the majority of people that I've seen on gas bikes, don't have a license and that's the main point...
My guess is the issues come from a group (of unknown size) that want the mobility of a car, but have DUIs or whatever and aren't allowed to drive and figure the best (or only) alternative is a gas bike. It's cheap and fast.
If electric bikes had the same range (FOR THE SAME PRICE POINT), then it would be a non issue, and EVERYONE would ride electric.

I personally just happen to be lucky enough to be able to afford (after a few months to a year of saving the money) to buy a bike with an 80-100 mile range.(albeit with a 3 hour recharge time, as opposed to a 5 min refuel time)
But if anyone who's ridden on a bike for a minimum of 40+ miles in one stretch, will tell you, you definitely NEED a break!
(On a side note, if I had the (extra) money, I would/could invest an extra $500 and make a battery system than CAN charge to full in 12 minutes. - If I ever sell my bike, I'll use that money to start from scratch and make a $3000 fully legal electric bike with a 100 mile range and 12 min "refuel" time)
****, some people will spend $3000+ on a carbon fiber regular bike. Oh, and yeah, EVERY SINGLE one of those people FLY past me on the electric. A majority of them slow down for a moment to discuss my bike and are "amused" to say the least. Heh.

 

[DuctTapedGoat]

Re: I think Florida will be the proving ground for gas MBs

You're right in that they won't make a VIN for a standard bicycle. But - for a motorized bicycle to get up to code you've just gotta get (if memory serves me) blinkers, brake light, horn, headlamp and adequate brakes.

I remember when I spoke with my local DMV investigator - he informed me that realistically, the only hard part about passing inspection for a State Issued VIN is getting brakes that are up to code. I'm thinking a combination of hub brakes and disc brakes on a dual pull lever, both front and rear, would be enough to do it.

Lol, now, when you bring up the suspended license thing - I'm very opinionated about. I ride a motorized bike because I enjoy the hobby, but there's all too many people trying to pull one over on the local LEOs. I'm opinionated specifically against people who lose their license due to DUIs, DWPs, and other offenses in which there could be a victim - or even WAS a victim. I do not want people who are willing to put other people's lives at risk when they're in 2,000 pounds of steel representing the motorized bicycling community, so in a way, I support the license thing - or at least support that a SUSPENDED license should be enough to prevent them from riding motorized bicycles. What would be cool is if there was a certain level of regulation on motored bike riding from suspendees for reasons other than driving violations - like a 200w/=HP limit, or work permits, but something like that is a long ways away. There would have to be first recognition of it as a form of bicycle transportation, regulations on motor power, and some form of registration.

 

[decoherence]

Re: I think Florida will be the proving ground for gas MBs

i have seen a lot of false info being typed in these last few pages.
i am not even going to correct them or the people.
it would only be an argument. i will try to put in some facts though.
florida DOES have moped classifications.
florida doesn't have a path for home built or kit path to get a VIN for mopeds like they do for cars, motorcycles, & cars (+etc).
government can restrict something through the tax system.
ie: marijuana tax stamps. marijuana can't be grown in the US with out having a tax stamp. then they don't sell the tax stamps. it was upheld that it is legal to restrict that way.
they are trying to make it complicated on purpose to restrict unlicensed people that were taken off the road to stay off the road.
it also has to do with that in the 80's there were a lot of children that were running around there neighbourhoods on scooters & getting killed.
at least there was in south florida.

to anyone that thinks everything is clear cut just look @ how 2 different sheriffs take 2 different stances on the laws. it is called interpretation of the law.

one last thing i have seen a few ad hominum attacks.
when one attacks the character of another instead of their argument, it just shows how faulty their argument is.

 

[Fulltimer]

Re: I think Florida will be the proving ground for gas MBs

I agree that things need to be changed and clarified in Florida. I also agree that people with a suspended license should not be allowed to use these bikes. With exceptions of course, work etc.

I trying, on another thread, to get Florida people together for the purpose of figuring out just what we want done with this issue. Then contact a state politician with our thoughts on this. Very FEW people have signed on. So it becomes apparent that they just want to be on here complaining and crying the blues. What it boils down to is all mouth and no action.

Terry

 

[DuctTapedGoat]

Re: I think Florida will be the proving ground for gas MBs

florida doesn't have a path for home built or kit path to get a VIN for mopeds like they do for cars, motorcycles, & cars (+etc).

You can very easily get a state issued VIN for a motorized bicycle. You wouldn't get it done as a moped, because it's not a moped. You would get it done as a motorcycle, you would not be after any moped benefits, you would be forcing yourself to keep a current motorcycle endorsement, current insurance and registration.

Though it's unnecessary, as there would have to be a valid reason behind that - such as a state or county that had made motorized bicycles specifically illegal. There has been enough experience with the legal system in Florida so far that I believe while it may not be "viewed as road legal" by the LEO, it is not against any law to ride it - sans any regulations.

 

[decoherence]

Re: I think Florida will be the proving ground for gas MBs

You can very easily get a state issued VIN for a motorized bicycle. You wouldn't get it done as a moped, because it's not a moped. You would get it done as a motorcycle, you would not be after any moped benefits, you would be forcing yourself to keep a current motorcycle endorsement, current insurance and registration.

Though it's unnecessary, as there would have to be a valid reason behind that - such as a state or county that had made motorised bicycles specifically illegal. There has been enough experience with the legal system in Florida so far that I believe while it may not be "viewed as road legal" by the LEO, it is not against any law to ride it - sans any regulations.

wrong! i have the papers in my hand from the tax collector.

they only issue vins for motorcycles, cars, trailers, etc..
the lady i went to actually tried several different ways to get a VIN for me. even went to the supervisor that tried to see what they could do.
they actually have paperwork & pictures stating bicycles can't get a VIN or register.
the people @ the tax place wanted to help me & asked me to keep them updated with this stuff.
@ to say a motorised bike doesn't fit the definition of moped doesn't even make sense.
we went over them & saw that i should be able to register as a moped. the only thing stopping me was a vin they were unable to issue. they tried to put in all my info & making up A VIN.

a few people here are saying we should be able to ride because there is a grey area & conflicting info from the state.
some how we would be able to hide behind the undefined interpretations. i also notice many of those same people are out of state.
me being in the state, i don't look forward to having to plead a case to an officer or judge.
after this poor kid had to go to court & they told him he can go & not to ride any more, he gets told that they were wrong.
hmmmmmm could a court be wrong or some guy in another state?
the purpose of the laws not including gas bikes but did include electric is that they wanted to keep gas bikes off the road.
they look @ it as several different problems.
first is that it gets into the media that all these DUIpeople are back on the road. skirting their punishment.
then the liability of people getting killed on a powered powered bikes.
next is the government hates the idea of two strokes anyway. it is the particulates & unburned exhaust that is the problem.
last. it is hard to regulate. from the speed, safety features, & how it will be used.
electric got the go ahead because it leaves the door open for "green" business

 

[SANGESF]

Re: I think Florida will be the proving ground for gas MBs

Amen brotha!

 

[IamTheBear]

Re: I think Florida will be the proving ground for gas MBs

amen to what?

 

[SANGESF]

Re: I think Florida will be the proving ground for gas MBs

Let me put it to you this way...

If you can't register it as a homemade moped or even a homemade motorcycle, what makes anyone think... "Oh yeah, they won't register it as a moped because it's not as safe (hence the "safety requirements" in the DMV TL-10 doc) so I guess, I can ride it on the streets!".
What sense is that?

We ALL know that eventually, once you get a small engine on the bike (even a 25cc one), you can EASILY achieve speeds greater than 20mph... Most bicycles are NOT meant for greater than 20mph speeds...
Then guess what happens... Bigger engines, faster speeds, more dangerous vehicles...
I'm sure if you put a 66/80cc engine on a small light bike, you can EASILY go 35-40, as to which it's definitely NOT meant for sustained distances...
THAT is the rationale from the DMV.. Or at least, what I believe to be their rationale.

 

[IamTheBear]

Re: I think Florida will be the proving ground for gas MBs

I can uderstand that but at the same time the road has a posted speed limit but cars can go much faster and some cars should not even be allowed on the street due to lack proper safety equipment like working brakes. what we are realing dealing with is the mind set of the rider not the speed the bike is capable of.

 

[SANGESF]

Re: I think Florida will be the proving ground for gas MBs

Exactly my point...

Lookat it this way too...
When I went to get insurance for my car, the insurance companies told me that size my wife didn't have a DL, my insurance rate would be 3 times normal...
I asked why...
The reason being, that even though she doesnt have a DL. She COULD POSSIBLY, drive the car... I was like, What?!? But that's it... It's not necessarily the car but the possibilty of the driver not being licensed.... Sound familiar?

 

[DuctTapedGoat]

Re: I think Florida will be the proving ground for gas MBs

Sangesf - you're just drifting again into anti-gas motor spiels.

Bicycles are not meant for greater speeds than 20mph? Pft, I pedal at 30-35 when I've got no motor. There's no change in my speed - there's only a change in how I achieve that speed. I can have my bike topped out on the accelerator and stomp on the pedals and go even faster. Maybe your POS walmart bikes can't handle over 20, but if you have a GOOD bike and take GOOD care of it - there is no reason why you can't achieve 30 miles an hour plus - and safely.

Sangesf - the point I'm trying to make is this. YOU DON'T NEED A VIN! It's unnecessary, as there is no laws regulating or banning the use of gas motors on bicycles. NOT ILLEGAL. The VIN thing is only an issue when gas motors on bicycles are illegal to operate on the roads, but as has been proven - there have been NO convictions on motored bicyclists in Florida.

 

[SANGESF]

Re: I think Florida will be the proving ground for gas MBs

Hey...
I said THAT'S THE WAY I BELIEVE THE DMV views it.. Not me.
And I've ridden some 10 speeds in my day and it is not easy to go 20 and keep at that speed for any length of time.. Good for you that you can pedal 30+ mph...
99.999% of the time I see people riding their bikes, they're not going over 10mph...
Maybe in your area, everyone is fit and spends hundred or thousands on their bike and ride real fast... But I never see it in my area...
I think in 4 years, I've seen maybe 6 people going faster than 15mph.

And how are my statements anti-gas?!? The same could be said about electric bikes (and btw the law limits those to 20mph) for, I would guess, is the same reasons as I've stated..

I've seen my share of idiots on electric bikes in my area too.. 48v powered bikes with heavy dangerous SLA batteries hanging from panniers while the guy's doing 30mph and riding back and forth between traffic and the sidewalk.. And to boot, riding under power on the sidewalk... Seen the same with guys on gas bikes... Both riding under power and many times, near hits on pedestrians...
Etc, etc, etc..

 

[Arnett Motor Bikes]

Re: I think Florida will be the proving ground for gas MBs

WEAR ABC 3 :: Top Stories - Motorized Bicycles Illegal?

 

[decoherence]

Re: I think Florida will be the proving ground for gas MBs

hey guys we don't need to meet up!
call the newspaper & tv station.
tell that judge & state attorney we don't need them any more.
ducttapegoat has it all figured out.
he says we don't need a VIN.
heck, that made me forget why we made all these threads for.

 

[DuctTapedGoat]

Re: I think Florida will be the proving ground for gas MBs

I coulda sworn you guys made these threads for whining, cause that's all that's gotten done so far.

If you wanna quote me decoherence - don't forget the part where I say "There is no law making gas engine motorized bicycles illegal, thus making needing to get a VIN unnecessary - BUT you guys need to get PROACTIVE in changing the laws to PROTECT motorized bicycling by proposing your own reasonable regulations BEFORE the state steps in and writes laws that make them entirely illegal."

 

[happyvalley]

Re: I think Florida will be the proving ground for gas MBs

If you don't like the thread I suggest stop posting in it.