Honda Timing...can it be done and how too please

[jared8783]

Ok so I know that your octane level effects your timing
so you want to time your engine accordingly
if your timing is off even a little bit you will damage your engine over time and not get as much performance as you otherwise could

Hondas owners manual did not specify an octane as most car owners manuals do
so i called them
they said 87

i wanna run 93
now i have timed cars many times before
you know those engines that have them distributers on them
thats easy

but this little thing (gxh50)
i dont have a clue what the first thing to do would be

is it even possible to retime these things?
can i use an automotive timing light powered by a car battery to ensure accuracy?

 

[2door]

Jared,
I'm afraid you're going in the wrong direction on a couple of issues. Gasoline octane rating has nothing to do with engine timing, either ignition or valve timing. True, on an engine with a distributor you can advance or retard the ignition and gain or loose performance but your Honda relies on a magneto to fire the spark plug and it is in a fixed location that will not allow advancing or retarding. Using a timing light will not really tell you anything. Stay with the lower octane gas; there's no advantage to using the more expensive fuel in these little engines. They'll perform just fine on the cheap stuff and your wallet will appreciate it.
Tom

 

[Gator Wrestler]

Jared,

If you are looking for performance, why not plan on a high performance 2 stroke for your next build. A 4.2HP can be had for about $255. There are a few different gear boxes they mate to and can be used for friction, CVT, or in frame drive. 2door's advice is sound. It's quite costly to soup up the little 4 strokes. Why put $1000 into an engine that would have a short life( some RC racers rebuild after every race) when you could get several engines for the same price?

 

[jared8783]

not tryin to soup it up
or go real fast

just trying to make it run as well as possible

thanks for the info

 

[thatsdax]

Jared. The Titan also has fixed Timing parameters. The only way to advance timing at all if even a small amount is to lower the plug gap. Take it down to 12 or 15 thous. That is the only way to advance timing a little. It may be possible to advance timing by reaming out the holes that mount the Pickup/Mag to the Engine block. Moving this can change timing. I have never done this. But I am sure it can be done. But Gosh.. I can hit speeds of 40mph or more. I can cruise 35mph with my Titan depending on my bike and drive setup. Plenty fast to be sure. And this is at 6000-9000 feet high !! At sea level you can get 25-40 percent more power than I get !! When ever I take my Titan motor to Table Rock Lake in Missouri, I am shocked at the power I get down there. Shocked and Amazed !!

 

[bandito]

The honda gxqua 50 cc has slots for adjusting the timing on when the spark occurs on stroke. Its there experiment with it remembering .oo5 mm can make a difference..... the ignition control has the adjustable slots that picks up the magnetic signals from the the flywheel.

 

[jbcruisin]

Doesn't the higher octane gas fire later than lower octane?
Jay

 

[jared8783]

I dont know exactly know what the difference is as far as when it fires

when I used to drive my ford focus i thought i was doing it some good by putting premium in it
i later learned (i forget where i learned it but i know its true) that by using a different octane that the engine is designed will SLOWLY OVER TIME cause engine damage

i beleive that it is a timing issue

I remember talking to people on the ford focus forums about it and for them to be able to safely use premium on a regular basis without doing any damage they had to buy a chip thingy for the car and then use that to tune it for premium

 

[Techbiker]

I dont know exactly know what the difference is as far as when it fires

when I used to drive my ford focus i thought i was doing it some good by putting premium in it
i later learned (i forget where i learned it but i know its true) that by using a different octane that the engine is designed will SLOWLY OVER TIME cause engine damage

This is false. Using premium gas in a car which needs regular octane gas will not slowly cause engine damage. Using regular gas in a car that requires premium will either result in reduced performane or will cause detonation. Modern cars can usually alter timing maps to prevent detonation however older cars usually cannot do this.

You won't get any benefit from premium gas in a car that requires regular, but you will loose performance. All higher octane does is prevent premature ignition of the gas by being harder to ignite. It is actually better to run a lower octane if you can.

 

[MotorbikeMike]

I agree with Techbiker, and will pose another question here.

Jared, IF we get 165-185 mpg, is easy to start, accelerates even uphill, hauls heavy man easily, is factory designed and proven, has long life, and takes care of itself in so many ways.........why would you want to tinker with it?

Break in the engine, change the oil as needed, ride the bike, and enjoy life, not all things need constant tinkering, and/or improvement.

BTW I was a Line Mechanic for Datsun, and do understand the principals of which you speak, but can assure you, I find these changes unneccesary in the GX50, and the 142 F as they will already exceed the need, and their class association.

Mike

 

[jared8783]

I just figured if i could make it run a little better why not

but since I learned (about a week after i started this thread) that it is near impossible to accurately retime these motors i have given up on the idea