Bumstead wants to build a Gas powered Trike

[KCvale]

That's a cool dog and bike alright, but my biker babe is Aaniimoosh The Wonder Dog, star of stage, screen and bark radio. (Movie star dog!)
SB

Hehehe cool.
I had a great dog way back 30 some years ago when I was in my early 20's, rolling in dough with a loft bachelor pad, etc.
Freddie the Wonder Pup, got him at the pound, he was a smallish Spaniel mix and all black.
He was the smartest damn dog I have ever seen in person to this day.
I have been through a couple more since then and have a pair here now but these two are as dumb as a box of rocks hehehe ;-}

 

[3rdWheelExtra]

too cool

 

[3rdWheelExtra]

SB,

The creative staring thing cracked me up. Because I'd just been sitting there looking at the trike trying to figure out how to put an engine under the seat.

 

[3rdWheelExtra]

Started looking at engines

http://tboltusa.com/store/pitster-pro-110cc-brgpx-moto-110cc-semi-auto-start-p-2546.html

How do the gears in something like this work? Would there be one sprocket on the trike's axle, with the chain swapping positions inside the transmission that's hooked to this engine?

This one is semi automatic, not that I understand what that means, exactly.

I wonder if I could just get the engine without the transmission? Then do a single gear setup. That would be easier and as you can probably tell I wasn't exaggerating my ignorance.

It looks like I'm going to have to put the engine behind the seat.

I'm going to try and do the pictures I promised tomorrow.

Would this engine work do you think? Too much power? Other reservations? Other suggestions?

http://www.harborfreight.com/small_...utm_medium=blog&utm_campaign=predator+engines

The 99cc Predator looks interesting.

 

[Ludwig II]

In terms of simplicity of build, I'd go for the bike engine. Semi auto means that increasing the engine revs from idle causes the clutch to engage and drive the vehicle, but you still have to change the gears by hand or foot, whichever is suitable.

 

[silverbear]

I'd suggest you keep thinking about different motor options. Look through other people's trike builds to see what they did and something will probably ring a bell for you and also give you a lot of how to guidance.

What are the regulations/laws in your area regarding displacement? Some places it is 49cc which doesn't necessarily mean you stick to that technically, but at least know what the law wants and try to make it look like you're complying. For example, with happy time (China girl) 2 stroke motors there's either 50cc or 68 (sometimes labeled as 80cc. Since they look the same so who's to know? Or say my 99cc Predator engine on the bike with the canoe sidecar. I got a sticker for it that says 49cc. But put a monster 8 hsp motor on there and you'll have a tough time convincing anybody it could pass for 49cc.

Another consideration. You're not going to want to go real fast on a trike. That's what I'm told anyway. I don't have one. I do know that when I changed from two wheels to three with a sidecar I slowed down some, especially taking corners. The point is that the first engine you showed with 107cc displacement plus four speed gearing is overkill. Just a China girl would probably do it with pedal assist starting out and on hills. The 99cc predator would be plenty without gears. A little 49cc with say a three speed gearing setup would be plenty since the gears will compensate for a smaller engine.

So keep looking some, I'd say. That Predator engine is an easy pull start. It usually takes three pulls or so but the resistance is not great. It's a smooth engine and trouble free with a lot of low end torque and good power. It is pretty low revving so the top end is not great, but you aren't interested in top end speed. Just as a matter of interest, I recently put a 99cc Predator on my old snow blower whose 5 hsp Tecumseh engine had died. Even though the Predator is 6.5 hsp it is much easier to start even in sub zero temps than that Tecumseh was in warm weather. Still an easy pull.

In some ways the Predator would be a good match for the trike if it fits the space OK. The downside as you pointed out earlier in the thread is that pull start is not good for you. Especially the getting off the trike to start it. I wonder if the pull cord could be longer and routed so that you could pull it sitting down. I don't know if that would be hard for you or not. both times I bought that engine it was on sale at Harbor Freight for a hundred bucks. I can't advise you on how you would run the power to the rear axle... cluth and whether a jack shaft would be needed. I don't know. That's why it is good to read about ohter builds and see what problems and solutions others have come up with. I don't even know if there is a trike build using that engine. A low initial price on an engine can be deceiving if you then have to buy this and that in order to make it work.

Electric start would be the cat's meow, or in your case the bulldog's bark. Look around. It seems to me there is a Honda clone engine that might work for you and comes in different displacements with different gearing options and electric start option. Crazy Horse would know. Also BarelyAWake had a thread on different four stroke engines that would be a good source for you. I can't remember, but it might be a sticky. Look under four stroke engines. You're going to find something that is just right for you. Patience.I know you're anxious, but be patient...
SB

 

[Ludwig II]

This is available over here, so it's very probably available in the US as well

 

[silverbear]

http://motorbicycling.com/showthread.php?t=19630

BarelyAWake kindly passed along this link. I believe the engine he is using on his Tadpole (two wheels up front) is a Lifan and is electric start. Hope this helps.
SB

 

[3rdWheelExtra]

SB and Lugwig II,

Still firm on my top speed for the trike. Not saying that going fast wouldn't be fun. Just not terribly wise.

I'm quite a lot more relaxed about safety now that I've actually ridden the PAV3. No way I'm falling out of the thing.

Yesterday Widget pulled me a quarter of mile. (eager for a run at the beginning of the ride, didn't peddle a lick.) Not safe at this point. I was holding the line she was pulling on. She towed me along at around 10 to 15 (estimated) That was plenty fast enough.

I'll check into the local laws. Hadn't given that much thought.

Me looking at engines at this point is a matter of familiarization. Quite literally do not understand the basics well enough to know what to choose.

That's why I'm here.



Sounds like I got a lot of good advice on the engine.

Since I'm so completely clueless, I think I'm going to poke around online and see if I can learn more about how these engines work, how the small transmissions work... That kind of thing.

Today, I plan on taking the front wheel of the trike off. It does not rotate freely. A small matter of a rub and squeak. Still rideable, but I worry about doing more damage.

The wheel has the Worksman front wheel drum brake. There is a set screw that appears to adjust the drum brake. I'll fiddle with it first and see if I can clear the problem up.

However, the guy that I bought the trike from. Made a point of mentioning that the front wheel costs around 150 bucks to replace, so I shouldn't just bump over stuff on it.

Why would he know unless he looked into getting a new wheel?

So, I'm wondering if I don't have a bent front wheel. I remember noting that info from him, at the time. But I discounted it because I was getting such a good price on the trike. Everything else was in good shape, and I didn't notice the squeak when I test rode it. It was a good price, so I figured 150$ for a new wheel would not be too unreasonable an extra price to pay.

The price was such a good price that I brought the trike home and started worrying about it being stolen. So, I ran the serial number through the national stolen bike registry. Nothing. Figure that covers me from a due diligence perspective. Suck to be riding the trike all the time thinking about the poor person it was stolen from. But things seem on the up and up.

I was relieved... I had been worried I'd blown six hundred bucks.

Pretty good advice to slow down and be patient...

 

[Ludwig II]

A rub and squeak every rotation of of the wheel may point to the brake drum being slightly oval, and a shoe rubbing each time it turns. Minor ovality is livable. Major doesn't need a new wheel, just a machine shop skimming the inside of the drum to bring it back to being round.

 

[3rdWheelExtra]

Pictures:



Best dog I've ever had.



Pretty isn't she?

 

[3rdWheelExtra]

Ludwig,

You just saved me a trip into town. Thanks.

 

[KCvale]

SB and Lugwig II,
Still firm on my top speed for the trike. Not saying that going fast wouldn't be fun. Just not terribly wise.

Me looking at engines at this point is a matter of familiarization. Quite literally do not understand the basics well enough to know what to choose.

That's why I'm here.

You and I started on our first trike builds about the same time and I posted here in your topic.

Considering your trikes operational parameters, mechanical skill levels and physical condition you really might want to see what I am doing with electric on my build topic here http://motorbicycling.com/showthread.php?t=44144

It may save you a lot grief if you consider electric over gas for a trike.

 

[silverbear]

Just came in from snow blowing and realized I had said the engine on it was 99cc. Not so, The Predator on my bike is 99. On the snow blower it is 212. They both start easily. Not that it matters.

Yes, your dog is a pretty girl. Tell her I said so. She reminds me of the dog on the very old kid movies, Spanky And Our Gang also sometimes called The Little Rascals. Dog had similar facial features and markings. Give that dog a bone!

At first glance it doesn't look like a lot of room for a gas engine mounted down behind the seat. If you can afford it, KCVale may well be right about the electric. Keep it as an option as you do research. A plus is you don't need to to worried about the cops and cubic displacement. With a limited top speed and three gears you'd have plenty of power even with 36 volt I would think. There are some great new batteries out there with good range... like 25 -30 miles per charge. I know that range is an issue for you. Might not be enough. A second set of batteries would double the range. The other plus is you have KC willing to guide you and has been there, done that.
But maybe you'll find just the right gas engine that will fit.

If you can prop the front end of the bike off the ground so that the front wheel can spin freely you can turn it and see if it is out of round. If so a bike shop should be able to tune the spokes the make it true. If the wheel is bent (not an easy thing to do with that Worksman) then you're screwed. I've trued wheels that had a terrible wobble and made them true. It might not be as bad as you imagine if it is out of round.
SB

 

[silverbear]

K.C.
Curious. If 3WE was to go electric following your lead would he be able to use the three speed internal hub for gearing under electric power? Is that motor 36 volt?
SB

 

[3rdWheelExtra]

KC,

I've been watching your build. That is a nice looking trike. I live almost 23 miles from town. Out in the middle of a huge orange grove. So, a round trip will be somewhere around 50 miles.

Not something I intend to do every day. But on a nice day it'd be a great ride. A lot of locations I'd go are closer. But I'd really like to ride up to see the Sequoias. That's about the same distance as to town, but with some nice hills added. Where I live everything is on the flat.

I looked into the electric option early on and decided that the range would be too limited.

Yeah, my mechanical skills are limited to say the least. Mostly because I've never taken the time to learn about this stuff.

On the other hand, I just plowed through a few wiki articles on internal combustion engines, so I have a bit better handle on what's going on there.



Plus, I will have some friends helping me. Right now I'm just trying to de-ignorant myself.

Staton has a bolt on kit that Worksman said is a tested solution. A bit over 500 bucks, then there's shipping. So push comes to shove, I'll get that kit and mount it. It sticks out the back a good bit, which is why I didn't like it too much. May not have a choice, if I'm going to stick to gas.

I'll reconsider the electric option.

I live out in the country. Kids are constantly jetting around on four wheelers, doubt the cops are gonna bother me too much, unless I do something stupid. But I still intend to check the laws, be silly not to. It is posted on our highways that motorized cycles are not allowed.

Funny the things you never notice until you do...

 

[Ludwig II]

I don't know, but I think that the simplest way to motorise a trike is to do it with a front wheel friction kit, something like this Velosolex device here:

 

[3rdWheelExtra]

Does that thing have a roller or something in contact with the wheel?

Looks like a workhorse.

I just came back from a ride. Fifteen minutes and I'm exhausted. Widget doesn't seem phased a bit. Down right depressing...

I spent a good bit of my life getting around on a very nice racing bike.

I traded a Buick LeSabre for it when I was stationed at Camp Pendleton CA. Its a Univega twelve speed, I think I got it in '83. All Dura Ace components. Steel frame weighs around twenty pounds...

I literally put thousands of miles on that bike. Still not a thing wrong with it. I'll give it to my son when he's old enough to appreciate it. I changed the rear set once and put a new set of rims on about fifteen years ago.

Nice piece of machinery, I'm sort of attached to it.

http://simplicityvintagecycles.com/2012/09/07/1983-univega-specialissima-rejuvenation/

This is not a picture of my bike. Mine's in storage in Utah. Not exactly the same, but the frame and components are. Mine originally came with aerodynamic rims. Sewups, the whole bit. Got tired of changing tires so I put clenchers on it.

I have an extra third wheel now...

 

[Ludwig II]

That's the old Velosolex engine, it drives a roller off the end of the crankshaft which is pressed on to the tyre. There are several suppliers of equivalents in America. It's about as simple as you can get.

There's Bumble Bee, That's Dax do friction drivers, a quick search found this one: http://cyclehappy.com/friction-driv...aru-245-cc-110-hp-four-cycle-engine-kit-.html

And this Bumble Bee:

You have to look at power, practicality, and importantly, reliability and replaceability. Remember the engineering mantra, measure twice, cut once.

 

[silverbear]

I've been looking again at your pictures. Could you take more of the rear area and under the seat from different angles? Also measure from the frame right under the seat to the bottom of the seat. Some kind of flat bottomed four stroke might just fit. A semi automatic 50cc with gears and electric start would be just the ticket.

Yes, the Velo-solex uses a friction roller that comes into contact with the tire via a lever. About 50 cc and pretty under-powered as I understand it. Also some slippage in wet weather. I'm guessing it would not make you real happy, considering you are a good sized fellow I had a bike bug motor of similar design and it required a good bit of pedal assist. There is a Chinese clone of that Solex engine available.
SB