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Echo weedeater engine/friction drive build

Post all about your home built rides here. Weedwacker motors, lawn mower engines ect. This area is for non kit builds


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  #1  
Old 03-23-2009, 10:48 PM
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Speedy Wilson Speedy Wilson is offline
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Smile Echo weedeater engine/friction drive build

Hello World,
First I would like to thank Deacon for the advice and comfortableshoes for posting pics of builds. Also everyone else I can't remember,but thanx all the same. This is my first build,a murray 26" mountain bike with a friction drive,rear mounted echo ww engine.
First problem I encountered was getting the clutch housing off. The stupid allen head bolts are loc-tited in from the factory.I broke one off,right where i was going to use the hole for a mounting bracket. Tried drilling it out and broke 2 bits,so i decided to change the design a little. Problem #2 is the short shaft because the flywheel is directly under the clutch. I decided to go to Home Cheapo and find a treaded coupling to allow treading a long bolt with drive wheel on the shaft. In comes Problem # 3. The threads are 8mm x 125,not 5/16 like i hoped. They have crap for a metric selection of bolts and nuts but I figured i would run up some nuts on a long 8mm bolt,j.b weld them together and hope i can halfway achieve a rotational balence,then thread this "coupling " on the shaft. While looking in the bolt drawer of my tool box I find what appears to be some type of air hose fitting,about what I wanted to use. Curious,I went to see if it would fit. PRESTO!!! It worked perfectly.
Now I am working on the mounting brackets. All i got for this is scrap 16 gauge sheet metal and old treated 2x4s. In the spirt of my pal Deacon I'm going to try to make it work. Got some door hinges for the motor lift/disengage part. I will try to post some pics of The Hillbilly Deluxe if I can. I broke my good camera and got a $10 point and click digital thingy that probably was a gimic. Will have to see.
Just a thought,does the weight of the clutch act in the same way a cast iorn flywheel does on a go cart engine? What I'm getting at is kind of like trying to crank a lawnmower engine without the blade on it. won't work. Does the clutch weight act to help the engine spin easier?
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Old 03-24-2009, 06:41 AM
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Default Re: Echo weedeater engine/friction drive build

Post us a picture of the motor if you can. As for the starting. shoes left her rope pull starter on and I took mine off. If you have removed it a rope wrapped around the drive wheel works just fine if the motor is lifted off the wheel. The motor's pull should work just fine as long as the engine is lifted when you start it. Also these motors will drag start.

Good luck with the mount I hope you can get it hooked down with a minimum of vibration. Trust me its the vibration that killed all my engines I think.
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Old 03-24-2009, 03:19 PM
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Default Re: Echo weedeater engine/friction drive build

Just a thought regarding the threaded fastenings with Locktite "tm" industrial products
applied to them.

Removing those fastenings for the consumer is, accoriding to the "Locktite Industrial" tech support
pro's, best accomplished with hi temp heat applied directly to the fastening to get it HOT before trying to break it loose. If you are working near gasoline or fuel vapors on a motor
you'll have to be careful or better yet remove the tank, lines, and carb and plug the intake
to the motor case.

This product is a specialized plastic and comes in various grades. In production they treat the fasteners with a chemical such as Clean'n'prime or #213484 that chemically treats
the fastener surface to bond better with the Locktite as it is screwed into the case. In the industrial
grades of Loctite such fastenings around the clutch shouldn't have grades above #242 or below
#222 to hold 20 ft/lbs of torque and keep it safe from vibration. The proper installation of these treated fastenings is to coat the first 4 thereads of the fastener before installation and then pulling it up to the torque s

There is no adequate way to use a solvent to disolve the hardened loctite before removal as only heat will do that. The Locktite is color coaded and any "red" colored thread locker will bond it tight enough that the fastening may break before it come loose. Colors such as "red"(hardest)
"blue"(medium hardness) and "green"(light hold) are available for the consumer market that aren't as strong as some of the industrial products. But the products for industrial applications are made where the aim is to build products that will stay together thru the warrenty period and servic life. These Industrial products are sold by numerical
specification. Those who work on these items are not really considered.

Locktite produces a product called "Chisel Paint Strip" that will clean this material the factory uses
off the fasteners. (use in a well ventelated area with eye protection) Once cleaned the "red"
Locktite can be used on the fasteners (again coating only the first 4 threads of the end of the
fastener). This will coat the other threads as the fastener is installed. A thread cutting tap the
same size as the bolt hole could be used to "chase" the threads to remove residue from previous installations and then cleaned with carb cleaner aerosol with the thin tube that often comes
taped to the side of such cans.

Inserting an old screw driver or allen wrench into the fastening and hitting it with a hammer
won't release the Loctite as it is designed to insulate against vibration and impact. The
heat will cause the Locktite to soften enough to get it out. If the aluminum is heated and then
the fastener the removal may be successful. This is where a MicroFlame Mini-Torch that uses butane and can reach 2500 degrees temp focusing a very small area will be helpful. (I've seen the butane refill cans at WalMart made by Ronson in both the hardware and tobacco departments and the refillable mini pencil torches are available at Harbor Freight often for less than a $1.50 when on sale)

The numbers I've posted are from "Locktite Industrial Division" products and won't be available at a local hardware stores or WalMart. The green, blue, & red consumer products will be found at public
outlets.

This information came from Loctite Industral's tech services. The grades specified would apply to
string trimmers and small motors such as these HT's from China.

Last edited by eDJ; 03-24-2009 at 03:24 PM.
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Old 03-24-2009, 05:34 PM
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Speedy Wilson Speedy Wilson is offline
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Default Re: Echo weedeater engine/friction drive build

Hey ,thanks for the lock tite tip. I was thinking of using my heat gun but tried the hammer and screwdriver trick. I will have to get me a pen torch for later use.I just wish the Echo people would use standard thread,hex head bolts. Not the metric torx head crap. Nothing in my tool box will screw into the holes. Also,where do people buy metric tap and die sets? Harbor freight maybe?
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Old 03-24-2009, 06:18 PM
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Default Re: Echo weedeater engine/friction drive build

Hopefully i did right and got the pics to post. The quality is lacking but what should i expect from a cam i got for 10 bucks at wal-greens the size of a matchbook. I got ripped off I think. I used photobucket to make the code...here goes nothing




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Old 03-24-2009, 07:08 PM
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Speedy Wilson Speedy Wilson is offline
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Default Re: Echo weedeater engine/friction drive build

Okay,I know i got to refine my camera and posting skills. Hey,I'm a FNG so I get a break right? Anyway, the top pic was suppose to show how I used the 2 lower clutch housing holes to mount the right angle sheetmetal. I had to scallop out a "u" for flywheel clearence. In the top right hole was bolted an " L " shaped piece that bolts to the bottom bracket using two nuts and bolts. Pic #2 is of the " front" of the engine. The pull starter was retained. Pic #3 shows the 2x4 blocks bolted to the rear,just above the brakes. A little clearence trimming was needed to allow the upright support and brake cable to clear the wood and fit. If you look close notice the door hinge. Its really tough steel. My pa probably boosted it from work ages ago. The last pic I feel is important. I just wish I knew what the coupling came off of. I need a few for spares. The shaft had just enough treads for the clutch to mount to. I used this thingy to secure the flywheel and attatch a 70mm long bolt to allow mounting a drive wheel. If I could find more couplings in metric thread i plan to tap one side to 5/16 thread so i can use a bike peg for a drive wheel. Untill then I will have to make do with what I can find. I got a hole saw kit. The guide will make a perfect center hole. I just have to drill it out to fit the long bolt. 2x4 wheels wrapped in step grip tape. It's the kind thats sticky backed for porch steps. It may work.
Next i have to finish up on the mounting. I plan to use 2 2x4 blocks, mounted vertical like wall studs on each side of the engine and bolting with lag bolts to the bottom flange and the top "arm". I have no metal! The arm will mount to another scrap block bolted to the hinge. The old shaft tube will be cut and flattened on each end to make a sort of triangle brace that connects to the arms end points for stiffness. I'm thinking of using a spring to hold the drive wheel about an inch high off the tire and use an old cable to pull it down from below to apply power to the tire. And yes..I am going to buy a road tire before I test things. The throtle i haven't worked on yet but will get to after i get my mounting done.
I was reading about people running a tire within a tire. How do I make it work? Can I fit my mtb tire inside the road tire for added protection?I got to read more on this .Any tips or comments are welcome and appreciated. I will get better pics i hope.
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Old 03-24-2009, 08:22 PM
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Default Re: Echo weedeater engine/friction drive build

Quote:
Hey ,thanks for the lock tite tip. I was thinking of using my heat gun but tried the hammer and screwdriver trick. I will have to get me a pen torch for later use.I just wish the Echo people would use standard thread,hex head bolts. Not the metric torx head crap. Nothing in my tool box will screw into the holes. Also,where do people buy metric tap and die sets? Harbor freight maybe?
Yur welcome Speedy !

You can find black (hardened) Torx socket sets to fit your 3/8 socket wrench reasonably priced and likewise metric/SAE tap and die sets at Harbor Freight. If it's a truly odd ball size, consider going into Granger's web site and asking for a free catelog from them too. If you find something that's an odd size, Granger can usually provide you with it.

As for the pen torches, I bought 5 when they were on sale for a buck each.(with cupon from thesale ad paper) Handiest thing I've ever used on small tubing and stubborn nuts & bolts. You can get in tight places where with larger torches you'd have to dismantle parts of it to get at what you're working on. With the pen torch you can make repairs on the run.

By the way, I like that little camera. I was given one in a Christmas stocking but haven't played with it yet. (it's a Vivitar) I never dreamed it would even take that good of photos. I'm suprised by what you can get it to do. I'd only suggest you try to position yourself with the light behind you shining on the item you're shooting. (like the top photo) The second photo is just the opposite, and the others looks like the light is coming from the side, but by and large, not too shabby for a little $10 dollar camera. Might be worth carrying it along when you ride !

Last edited by eDJ; 03-24-2009 at 08:24 PM.
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  #8  
Old 03-25-2009, 03:32 PM
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Speedy Wilson Speedy Wilson is offline
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Default Re: Echo weedeater engine/friction drive build

The rain is slowing down my progress. I need to go work on it more..maybe i will get a chance soon.
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Old 03-25-2009, 10:17 PM
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Speedy Wilson Speedy Wilson is offline
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Default Re: Echo weedeater engine/friction drive build

Hello World,
I got back to work on the Hillbilly Deluxe. I finished up the engine mount and scavenged a shelf bracket to attatch it to my "clutch/hinge" assembly. It looks really ghetto but it is actually lighter than I thought it would be and sturdy once I added the muffler bolt bracket. I didn't have a long enough piece of metal to give my airfilter room to be removed so i just bolted it together anyway.I will have to remove the one 2x4 brace to take it off but I cleaned it good before I bolted it up.
While in the garage,head banging to the metal music and cussing some,I realized that if I do another build with this much effort it will be a chainsaw engine or a kit. This is a lot of work for a 22cc engine,but hey,I'm broke,jobless and bored. I do want to do a 70cc kit though one day.
Tommorrow I hope to finally attach the engine to the bike and hook up some sort of throttle cable, kill switch and engagement controls. Friday I will try to change to a rear road tire and find a drive wheel. Oh,i need to replace some fuel line too.
I'm still trying to figure out photobucket...heres my album link of the build if you would like to see pics. I'm trying to figure out how I got the last pics to post.

Pictures by SpeedyWilson - Photobucket
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Old 03-26-2009, 07:55 PM
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Default Re: Echo weedeater engine/friction drive build

Well,it is a fact that a 22cc engine will not pull my big but. I got my rig done but even pedaling up to as fast as i can before engaging the engine at wide open throttle it's still a dog. It just wont work for me...I think the engine was about gone before I started anyway. If i do another build it will be with a 3hp briggs or a chain driven chainsaw engine. I have nothing but love for the weedeater diy crowd but its just not for me. I'm going to get a kit...dont know when but when I can find the money...thanks for the advice and help in this build. I will keep building,not with weedeater engines though.I did have fun putting all the stuff together and rigging stuff up though it didn't work out like i planned.
I will post some pics of the finished build sometime tomorrow before i take it appart. Hey,the little steel wheels on a hydraulic jack make a good drive wheel,was what I used. 1.5 inches I think. I used a 1 inch pipe piece but it spun off somewhere. The nobbies did'nt help either...lol.

Last edited by Speedy Wilson; 03-26-2009 at 08:02 PM.
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